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Does the Bible begin 'after' the dinosaur/Neanderthal ages?

The history of the Earth has many geological 'time periods'. Does the book of Genesis begin, with a 'new' Earth? It seems to make sense, that God changed the Earth, in order for humans to survive, before creating modern man, and the animal kingdom, as we know it today. It appears that God has changed the Earth in the past, also, as evidence is given through the different geological time periods. We also see, that before the Flood, that during man's existence, it had never rained upon the earth, until the Flood.

Trying to connect the 'new' Earth to the past, is a useless exercise. Modern man and creatures/plants required for our existence, may have no connection to the past, at all. We do find, that in some cases, some animal life (and perhaps plant life) did in fact exist (and were carried forward) on the 'old' Earth. The various 'grains' needed by modern man, would have had no use in the pre-historic period, as seeds have to be collected and planted by man. Just a thought.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
I think of evolution when I read these passages.

The earth first brought forth plants.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

The sea the brought forth animals.
21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Then mammals, notice the verses say the "earth brings forth".
24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Then finally brought forth man, male and female
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Thats kinda how I see it, like the days are ages, who knows how long.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
The history of the Earth has many geological 'time periods'. Does the book of Genesis begin, with a 'new' Earth? It seems to make sense, that God changed the Earth, in order for humans to survive, before creating modern man, and the animal kingdom, as we know it today. It appears that God has changed the Earth in the past, also, as evidence is given through the different geological time periods. We also see, that before the Flood, that during man's existence, it had never rained upon the earth, until the Flood.
Trying to connect the 'new' Earth to the past, is a useless exercise. Modern man and creatures/plants required for our existence, may have no connection to the past, at all. We do find, that in some cases, some animal life (and perhaps plant life) did in fact exist (and were carried forward) on the 'old' Earth. The various 'grains' needed by modern man, would have had no use in the pre-historic period, as seeds have to be collected and planted by man. Just a thought.

No, the ' new earth ' or new earthly society, takes place after the time of separation on Earth of Matthew 25:31-33,37
To me, as the earth was made new in Noah's day by the removal of wickedness on Earth, now the words from Jesus' mouth will rid the earth of evil - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16. - Revelation 11:18 B; Proverbs 2:21-22
 

siti

Well-Known Member
The various 'grains' needed by modern man, would have had no use in the pre-historic period, as seeds have to be collected and planted by man.
Are you suggesting that God invented certain kinds of grass specifically for human use about 6000 years ago? Here's a reference that lists archaeological evidence of the existence of domesticated wheat varieties as much as 3000 years before Adam's supposed creation according to the Bible. The 'new earth' of agriculture, was, it seems, of human, rather than divine, invention.

The Bible, of course, is much newer than agriculture and probably not a single recognizable part of it is likely to be more than about 3000 years or so old and, the whole - as it is usually recognized today - perhaps a little over 1600 years old. The Bible too, is believed by many rational people, to be a work of human invention.

Dinosaurs died out about 65 million years ago and Neanderthals about 40,000 years ago but both of them may have been grass-eaters (as evidenced from fossilized dinosaur poo and Neanderthal dental calculus). Some Biblical creationists have seized on the dinosaur poo one as evidence that the Biblical "Behemoth" was a grass-eating dinosaur and was known as late as Job's time (presumably after the Noachian deluge of about 4500 or so years ago???!!!).
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
Here is a way few people look at the history of the earth. God made the earth many millions of years ago. Maybe billions. There were plants and dinosaurs. It was very peaceful. Then Satan rebeled against God and was thrown out of Heaven. Satan was so angry he tried to destroy the beautiful earth God had made. The plants and dinosaurs were buried under avalanches and volcano eruptions. The earth sat dark and lifeless for millions of years. Then the events of Genesis took place. God recreated the earth from the destroyed ruins left by Satan. This was about 6000 years ago. If you trace all the ancient civilizations back as far as you can, you can only go about 6000 years. That is because man has only been on earth about 6000 years. Yes, few people know about this or believe it, but it fits with thw historical record.
 

Sapiens

Polymathematician
Here is a way few people look at the history of the earth. God made the earth many millions of years ago. Maybe billions. There were plants and dinosaurs. It was very peaceful. Then Satan rebeled against God and was thrown out of Heaven. Satan was so angry he tried to destroy the beautiful earth God had made. The plants and dinosaurs were buried under avalanches and volcano eruptions. The earth sat dark and lifeless for millions of years. Then the events of Genesis took place. God recreated the earth from the destroyed ruins left by Satan. This was about 6000 years ago. If you trace all the ancient civilizations back as far as you can, you can only go about 6000 years. That is because man has only been on earth about 6000 years. Yes, few people know about this or believe it, but it fits with thw historical record.
Whew ... that's quite a tale. But ... it contradicts what is known and makes up out of the whole cloth a whole lot more.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Here is a way few people look at the history of the earth. God made the earth many millions of years ago. Maybe billions. There were plants and dinosaurs. It was very peaceful. Then Satan rebeled against God and was thrown out of Heaven. Satan was so angry he tried to destroy the beautiful earth God had made. The plants and dinosaurs were buried under avalanches and volcano eruptions. The earth sat dark and lifeless for millions of years. Then the events of Genesis took place. God recreated the earth from the destroyed ruins left by Satan. This was about 6000 years ago. If you trace all the ancient civilizations back as far as you can, you can only go about 6000 years. That is because man has only been on earth about 6000 years. Yes, few people know about this or believe it, but it fits with thw historical record.
There are ruins of human settlements in Tel es Sultan more like 8,000 years old. And there are physical human remains older still.
 

siti

Well-Known Member
Give details of whay is contradictory
Because fossilized human remains and artifacts have been found all over the world that date to long before 6000 years ago (the oldest anatomically modern human fossils are dated to well over 100,000 years ago and there are lots of them) - there is even a written text, the Dispilio Tablet, that has bee dated to 5260 ± 40 BC which makes it well over 7000 years old and predates the creation of Adam according to Biblical chronology b y over a thousand years.
 
No, the ' new earth ' or new earthly society, takes place after the time of separation on Earth of Matthew 25:31-33,37
To me, as the earth was made new in Noah's day by the removal of wickedness on Earth, now the words from Jesus' mouth will rid the earth of evil - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16. - Revelation 11:18 B; Proverbs 2:21-22

Your posting makes no sense, as a reply to my thread. The scriptures you present in your posting, relate to 'the future', not the past.
 
Because fossilized human remains and artifacts have been found all over the world that date to long before 6000 years ago (the oldest anatomically modern human fossils are dated to well over 100,000 years ago and there are lots of them) - there is even a written text, the Dispilio Tablet, that has bee dated to 5260 ± 40 BC which makes it well over 7000 years old and predates the creation of Adam according to Biblical chronology b y over a thousand years.

Who verified that the ages of bones and artifacts found, are accurate, and that they are from 'humans' created in the image of God?
 
The history of the Earth has many geological 'time periods'. Does the book of Genesis begin, with a 'new' Earth? It seems to make sense, that God changed the Earth, in order for humans to survive, before creating modern man, and the animal kingdom, as we know it today. It appears that God has changed the Earth in the past, also, as evidence is given through the different geological time periods. We also see, that before the Flood, that during man's existence, it had never rained upon the earth, until the Flood.

Trying to connect the 'new' Earth to the past, is a useless exercise. Modern man and creatures/plants required for our existence, may have no connection to the past, at all. We do find, that in some cases, some animal life (and perhaps plant life) did in fact exist (and were carried forward) on the 'old' Earth. The various 'grains' needed by modern man, would have had no use in the pre-historic period, as seeds have to be collected and planted by man. Just a thought.

No, Thorwald, it doesn't.
Genesis 1:1 clearly states that creation began at the very beginning. There are no millions or billions of years involved in creation or anything else secular. Genesis means what it says and cannot be made to mean what people might want it it to mean.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The history of the Earth has many geological 'time periods'. Does the book of Genesis begin, with a 'new' Earth? It seems to make sense, that God changed the Earth, in order for humans to survive, before creating modern man, and the animal kingdom, as we know it today. It appears that God has changed the Earth in the past, also, as evidence is given through the different geological time periods. We also see, that before the Flood, that during man's existence, it had never rained upon the earth, until the Flood.
I think you're trying to compare apples and air conditioners,Thorwald. Geologic time periods and scripture are two different things. Scripture is just ancient folklore. Geology is science.
Are we discussing theology or science?
Trying to connect the 'new' Earth to the past, is a useless exercise. Modern man and creatures/plants required for our existence, may have no connection to the past, at all. We do find, that in some cases, some animal life (and perhaps plant life) did in fact exist (and were carried forward) on the 'old' Earth. The various 'grains' needed by modern man, would have had no use in the pre-historic period, as seeds have to be collected and planted by man. Just a thought.
Life arose several billion years ago and evolved into the myriad forms we see today. There is no evidence of any world flood that wiped out life on Earth.
Here is a way few people look at the history of the earth. God made the earth many millions of years ago. Maybe billions. There were plants and dinosaurs. It was very peaceful. Then Satan rebeled against God and was thrown out of Heaven. Satan was so angry he tried to destroy the beautiful earth God had made. The plants and dinosaurs were buried under avalanches and volcano eruptions. The earth sat dark and lifeless for millions of years. Then the events of Genesis took place. God recreated the earth from the destroyed ruins left by Satan. This was about 6000 years ago. If you trace all the ancient civilizations back as far as you can, you can only go about 6000 years. That is because man has only been on earth about 6000 years. Yes, few people know about this or believe it, but it fits with thw historical record.
This is theological folklore, not science. Again, what are we discussing, theology or science?
Who verified that the ages of bones and artifacts found, are accurate, and that they are from 'humans' created in the image of God?
There are many ways of dating rocks, fossils and artifacts. Google.
 

siti

Well-Known Member
Who verified that the ages of bones and artifacts found, are accurate, and that they are from 'humans' created in the image of God?
Who? What does it matter who. The Dispilio Tablet was radiocarbon dated along with dozens of other samples of timber and pottery etc. which give the dates of occupation of the site between about 5400 to about 3500BC, during the neolithic age. If you really want to learn more about it here's a paper (you should also check the references in it - numerous archaeologists have worked on this site).

As for the oldest anatomically humans, there is a very long list of the earliest settlements of countries and islands here in wikipedia - in many cases the evidence is fossilized human remains - again you should check out all the references and track down the original research papers if you really want to know how these fossils have been dated. As @Valjean noted, there are different ways of doing this and in many cases, more than one method is employed in order to confirm the dating. There is absolutely no question that anatomically modern humans (I have no idea what "in the image of God" means) have been around for about 200,000 years.
 
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lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
It is amazing how scientists can take one tiny piece of rock or a splinter of bone and decide that there was a society thousands of years ago and what they looked like and how they lived. The ancient civilizations like the Chinese and Greek can be traced back a few thousand years. Before that there is only guess work based on tiny fragments of rock or bone.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
It is amazing how scientists can take one tiny piece of rock or a splinter of bone and decide that there was a society thousands of years ago and what they looked like and how they lived. The ancient civilizations like the Chinese and Greek can be traced back a few thousand years. Before that there is only guess work based on tiny fragments of rock or bone.
It might be amazing to you because you've got a very distorted and oversimplified view of what archaeologists and anthropologists do.
In any case, the ruins I mentioned before which were 8,000 years old were neither 'a bit of stone nor 'a bit of bone.' But walls, stairs, domiciles, even some art and carvings, tools, etc.
 

siti

Well-Known Member
It is amazing how scientists can take one tiny piece of rock or a splinter of bone and decide that there was a society thousands of years ago and what they looked like and how they lived. The ancient civilizations like the Chinese and Greek can be traced back a few thousand years. Before that there is only guess work based on tiny fragments of rock or bone.
The Lascaux caves have about 2000 painted figures that date to around 17,000 years ago. The Dispilio Tablet has writing on it and dates to over 7,000 years ago. It was found among preserved timber posts and pottery.

These are not tiny pieces or splinters:

DispilioTablet.jpg


57c5f461cabca6674996a45fc7d52df6.jpg
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
Well it is really amazing that someone can look at some paint on a wall and decide how old it is. How can anyone prove that the age is correct?
 

siti

Well-Known Member
Well it is really amazing that someone can look at some paint on a wall and decide how old it is. How can anyone prove that the age is correct?
Isn't it! If there are organic pigments or charcoal it can be done by radiocarbon dating. Its not easy with a very thin film of pigment but it can be done. In other cases, such as some cave paintings in Northern Spain, they date the tiny stalactites that have formed on top of the paintings over the thousands of years since they were painted by measuring how much uranium, a radioactive element, has decayed. Uranium from the surrounding bedrock (being slightly soluble) leaches into the water and forms a carbonate that becomes part of each layer of the stalactite as it forms. Uranium decays into thorium, which, being far less soluble, adheres to the clay in the bedrock instead of going into the ground water and from there into the stalactite. As a result, the newest layers of a growing stalactite typically contain no measurable level of thorium and so the age of the stalactite can be determined by measuring the ratio of uranium 234 to thorium 230 in a sample taken form the stalactite. As you say, amazing! But that's science for you!

BTW - The scientists dated over 50 paintings in this area of Northern Spain and the oldest were found to be over 40,000 years old. Not as famous as Lascaux, but they are the oldest known cave art in Europe. (again, hardly just fragments and shards).
 
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