Does the Apostle Paul claim that Jesus Christ, the holy anointed man, is Almighty God?

[Wildswanderer]

But the Father is greater than I (Jesus)

That just shows Jesus is humble.
You know one of Jesus's names is everlasting Father?

"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."


I don't claim to understand how the three in one operate. I'm ok with a little mystery when we are talking about an infinite Being.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Well that cannot be true, can it, Brian. Jesus is connected to God by the dependency he has with God. But even so, what if this:

• “About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”)” (Matt 27:46)

Is that not a separation?

That's your misunderstanding of what Jesus meant by quoting that scripture. He may have felt abandoned in that moment but he wasn't.
If you read the rest of the Psalm you understand that it ends with Jesus not being forsaken:
"For he has not despised or abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; and he has not hid his face from him, but has heard, when he cried to him (vv.19-21, 24).

 

[Soapy]

That just shows Jesus is humble.
You know one of Jesus's names is everlasting Father?

"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."


I don't claim to understand how the three in one operate. I'm ok with a little mystery when we are talking about an infinite Being.

Jesus’ NAME is not everlasting Father since everlasting Father is not a name.

Everlasting Father is a TITLE that states a prophesy that WILL OCCUR at the end of time when Jesus GRANTS EVERLASTING LIFE to those whom he judges worthy in the second resurrection.

The title, ‘Father’ means, amongst other things, ‘Giver of life’. And you know that the judgement of mankind is GRANTED to Jesus Christ BY GOD: YHWH; THE Father.

Those whom Jesus deems unworthy for eternal life will be DESTROYED… but those who he deems worthy will be MADE ALIVE ETERNALLY.

That’s where the title comes into force.

 

[Soapy]

That's your misunderstanding of what Jesus meant by quoting that scripture. He may have felt abandoned in that moment but he wasn't.
If you read the rest of the Psalm you understand that it ends with Jesus not being forsaken:
"For he has not despised or abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; and he has not hid his face from him, but has heard, when he cried to him (vv.19-21, 24).

You are straining the verse. The separation took place BUT GOD heard him. But the verse you quoted is speaking of the nation of Israel:

• “You who fear the LORD, praise him! All you descendants of Jacob, honor him! Revere him, all you descendants of Israel!” (Ps 22:23)

However, it was already foretold that the messiah would rise from the dead but even Jesus Christ DOUBTED FOR A MOMENT in the garden of Gethsemane wherein he SWEATED BLOOD wondering if God could really raise him back up.

Now, taking the mispoint you made… just because Jesus collected himself and subjected his Will to that of the Fathers DOES NOT MEAN he NEVER DOUBTED even for a moment.

So, same here… even as Jesus acknowledged a separation FROM GOD BUT GOD afterwards RESURRECTED him from the dead, DOES NOT mean there was no separation at any time!

In fact, God acknowledged the separation, himself by causing thunder, lightening, great wonders, and the massive curtain in the temple that separated the Holy of Holies from the outer room to be ripped asunder…

 

[Wildswanderer]

You are straining the verse. The separation took place BUT GOD heard him.

It was already foretold that the messiah would rise from the dead but even Jesus Christ DOUBTED FOR A MOMENT in the garden of Gethsemane wherein he SWEATED BLOOD wondering if God could really raise him back up.

Now, taking the mispoint you made… just because Jesus collected himself and subjected his Will to that of the Fathers DOES NOT MEAN he NEVER DOUBTED even for a moment.

So, same here… even as Jesus acknowledged a separation FROM GOD BUT GOD afterwards RESURRECTED him from the dead, DOES NOT mean there was no separation at any time!

In fact, God acknowledged the separation, himself by causing thunder, lightening, great wonders, and the massive curtain in the temple that separated the Holy of Holies from the outer room to be ripped asunder…

Doubting doesn't mean God was separated from himself. Jesus was also fully human so of course he was capable of doubting.
God opening the Holy of Holies was an indication of the change that had just taken place - there was no longer a need for priests and temple sacrifices.

Great wonders should accompany the greatest miracle ever.. that's not an indication of God being separated from himself.

 

[Soapy]

Doubting doesn't mean God was separated from himself. Jesus was also fully human so of course he was capable of doubting.
God opening the Holy of Holies was an indication of the change that had just taken place - there was no longer a need for priests and temple sacrifices.

Great wonders should accompany the greatest miracle ever.. that's not an indication of God being separated from himself.

You really are saying something about yourself.

The point was to illustrate a fact.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

One of the problems with those who are naysaying the trinity is that they do not understand the concept of the dual nature of Christ.
Christ was God Incarnate in human flesh. He is both God and man at the same time.
So when he talks of His Father being greater than himself, he is talking as the Son of Man...and that is the point.

The idea of the trinity comes from outside of the New Testament...the Jews new about it a long time before Christ.

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace

 

[SDavis]

It is claimed that the Apostles Paul said:

• For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.“ (1 Cor 8:5-6)

The verses first says that there is only one God [who is] the Father, FROM WHOM ALL THINGS CAME.

The verse continues saying that ‘There is only one Lord [who is] Jesus Christ.’

But then it says something strange and counter-intuitive. It says that all things came ‘THROUGH’ Jesus Christ.

But if all things came FROM THE FATHER, how did all things come THROUGH JESUS CHRIST?
((Recall also that trinity says that it was Jesus Christ who created all things….?!))

All [good] things are from the Father:

• “Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.“ (James 1:17)
• “This is what the LORD says— your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb: I am the LORD, the Maker of all things, who stretches out the heavens, who spreads out the earth by myself,” (Isaiah 44:24)

We know that the ‘LORD’ is ‘YHWH’, God; the Father. And it states in that verse in Isaiah that it is ‘YHWH’ that created all things.

Why then does of ‘appear’ that Paul is claiming all things CAME TO BE THROUGH Jesus Christ?

Could this actually be an example of MISTRANSLATION OR ADDITIONAL TEXT by the trinitarian translators attempting to claim that it ‘YHWH’ lied that he and he alone, created all things?
((Recall also that trinity says that it was Jesus Christ who created all things….?!))

Think what it would mean for the preaching of Almighty God, and his SERVANT Christ, to be brought into disrepute for the sake of deviant ideology?

 

[Wildswanderer]

You really are saying something about yourself.

The point was to illustrate a fact.

That you are trying to prove something that's not there?

 

[Trailblazer]

exchemist said: ↑
What agenda is that?

Trailblazer said: ↑
To be the only true religion.

exchemist said: ↑
How would that objective be served by claiming Jesus was God?

If Jesus was God then that would mean that Jesus is set apart from and superior to all the other Messengers of God, such as Moses, Muhammad, and Baha'u'llah, who did not claim to be God.

The implication would be that all those other religions are inferior to Christianity since only Christianity has a Messenger who is actually God.

 

[Trailblazer]

Is the Sheepherder the owner of the sheep OR the sheep that he herds?

Is the Sheepherder BOTH the owner of the sheep AND the sheep that he herds?

A mediator is NEITHER of the two between whom he mediates.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Jesus cannot be God if He is a mediator between God and man, that just won't work.
You and I are using logic, but logic doesn't work on Trinitarians. If it did, they could no longer believe that Jesus is God.

 

[Trailblazer]

It's just that denying the Bible is what Baha'is have to do if the want to see Baha'u'llah as the return of Christ

No, all Baha'is have to do is read and believe the Bible. Even if I had no other reason to believe that Baha'u'llah was who He claimed to be, the Bible would suffice.

History is history and geography is geography, and that is reality. To deny that Baha'u'llah was the return of Christ is to deny reality.

A few of the prophecies and how they were fulfilled by Baha'u'llah 'in reality' are depicted in the following 10 minute video.

 

[Trailblazer]

So denial of the Bible is a must for Baha'is and is the fruit of Baha'u'llah.

Belief in the Bible is a must for Baha'is according to Baha'u'llah.
Baha'u'llah referred to the Bible as God's holy Book, His most great testimony amongst His creatures

“We have also heard a number of the foolish of the earth assert that the genuine text of the heavenly Gospel doth not exist amongst the Christians, that it hath ascended unto heaven. How grievously they have erred! How oblivious of the fact that such a statement imputeth the gravest injustice and tyranny to a gracious and loving Providence! “How could God, when once the Day-star of the beauty of Jesus had disappeared from the sight of His people, and ascended unto the fourth heaven, cause His holy Book, His most great testimony amongst His creatures, to disappear also?” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, p. 89

 

[InChrist]

Why was Jesus anointed BY GOD if he IS GOD?

What you replied did not answer the question.

Trinity states that Jesus WAS STILL GOD even when he had lowered himself to become man!

Therefore, you are saying that ‘GOD anointed Himself’ which is not what the truth states:
“God anointed this man Jesus with the Holy Spirit and with power and he went around doing good’ (paraphrased).

Jesus, himself, says he can only do what his spiritual Father shows him. The one whom does what he is shown and does it exactly, is called “Son”.

A holy Angel is a spirit Son of God.

Jesus is a flesh, blood, and bone Son of God.

God is not a Son... God is “Father” (Head / Life giver / Creator) of the sinless Son.

A Son is not God. A Son is not ‘Father’, is not ‘Creator / Life Giver / Head’ of what his Father is head, creator, life giver of.

It was not the Son anointing Himself or God anointing Himself, as you mischaracterize. It was the Father anointing His Son, who became flesh in the Person of Jesus Christ. This anointing by the Father of His Son, for His earthly mission, in no way diminishes the the Godhood of Jesus.

In the OT scriptures who is the Rock? Who led the people of Israel through the wilderness? Is not the “Rock” a repeated reference to God?

And the Lord said to Moses, “Go on before the people, and take with you some of the elders of Israel. Also take in your hand your rod with which you struck the river, and go. 6 Behold, I will stand before you there on the rock in Horeb; and you shall strike the rock, and water will come out of it, that the people may drink.” Exodus 17:5-7

He is the Rock, His work is perfect; For all His ways are justice, A God of truth and without injustice; Righteous and upright is He. Deuteronomy 32:4

“No one is holy like the Lord, For there is no one besides You, Nor is there any rock like our God. 1 Samuel 2:2

For who is God, except the Lord? And who is a rock, except our God? 2 Samuel 2:32

The Lord lives!
Blessed be my Rock!
Let the God of my salvation be exalted.
Psalm 18:46

In the daytime also He led them with the cloud,
And all the night with a light of fire.
He split the rocks in the wilderness,
And gave them drink in abundance like the depths.
He also brought streams out of the rock,
And caused waters to run down like rivers.

But they sinned even more against Him
By rebelling against the Most High in the wilderness.
Psalm 78:14-17

Then they remembered that God was their rock, And the Most High God their Redeemer. Psalm 78:35


“WHO” do the NT scriptures say that Rock was?

Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and
that Rock was Christ.
1 Corinthians 10:1-4

 

[InChrist]

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Jesus cannot be God if He is a mediator between God and man, that just won't work.
You and I are using logic, but logic doesn't work on Trinitarians. If it did, they could no longer believe that Jesus is God.

Jesus is the Mediator, the only possible Mediator between God and humanity because He is the One and Only Being who is fully God and fully human. Therefore, Jesus Christ alone can be the bridge the gap and mediate between God and human beings.

 

[101G]

Jesus is the Mediator, the only possible Mediator between God and humanity because He is the One and Only Being who is fully God and fully human. Therefore, Jesus Christ alone can be the bridge the gap and mediate between God and human beings.

Jesus is the ECHAD of himself in Glorified flesh. Galatians 3:20 "Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one." again, KNOW the ECHAD of God.

101G.

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus is the Mediator, the only possible Mediator between God and humanity because He is the One and Only Being who is fully God and fully human. Therefore, Jesus Christ alone can be the bridge the gap and mediate between God and human beings.

I believe that Jesus was the one mediator between God and humanity who could bridge the gap between God and humans during the Christian dispensation, since the New Testament pertains to the Christian Dispensation.

I do not believe that Jesus was the only mediator between God and man that has ever existed, as I believe there have been other mediators. For example, I believe that Moses was the mediator between God and man during the Jewish dispensation, Muhammad was the mediator between God and man during the Islamic dispensation, and now, during the Baha'i dispensation, Baha'u'llah is now the mediator between God and man.

Dispensation

1. the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
2. an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
3. a divinely appointed order or age:

e.g. the old Mosaic, or Jewish, dispensation; the new gospel, or Christian, dispensation.

Definition of dispensation | Dictionary.com

I believe that Jesus was a mediator, but not because Jesus was fully God and fully human. It is logically impossible for Jesus to be fully God and fully human. Instead, I believe that Jesus had a twofold nature, so He was both divine and human, one part God and part human, like a hybrid being.

I do not believe that Jesus had to be God in order to be divine in nature. Jesus got His divine nature from God when His soul was with God in the spiritual world (heaven) before Jesus was born of Mary in this world. Also, since Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit Jesus was divine by nature.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

That just shows Jesus is humble.
You know one of Jesus's names is everlasting Father?

"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."


I don't claim to understand how the three in one operate. I'm ok with a little mystery when we are talking about an infinite Being.

OK, but I don't believe that verse is about Jesus. I understand that's the interpretation of some Christians though.

 

[Trailblazer]

OK God sent His Son, the Word, to become a man.

Technically speaking, what happened is that God sent the Holy Spirit to Mary, and then Mary conceived and had a son, Jesus.
Jesus was the Son of God, since He was born of the Holy Spirit.

It sounds like Baha'i double talk to say that Jesus had the attributes of God but not His Essence.

Heb1:1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

The Essence of God always remains hidden, it can never be known. The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His being since He has the Attributes of God and a divine nature.

God does not lie like men do and God can become a man if He wants to.
Jesus has 2 natures and one of them is the nature of His Father, God nature. Jesus is the Son of God with the nature of His Father.

That is correct. Jesus has 2 natures and one of them is the nature of His Father, God nature. Jesus is the Son of God with the nature of His Father. However, that does not mean that the Essence of God became a man, as the Essence of God can never be revealed to man. Only the Attributes and the Will of God can be revealed to man.

“Know thou of a certainty that the Unseen can in no wise incarnate His Essence and reveal it unto men. He is, and hath ever been, immensely exalted beyond all that can either be recounted or perceived. From His retreat of glory His voice is ever proclaiming: “Verily, I am God; there is none other God besides Me, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. I have manifested Myself unto men, and have sent down Him Who is the Day Spring of the signs of My Revelation. Through Him I have caused all creation to testify that there is none other God except Him, the Incomparable, the All-Informed, the All-Wise.” He Who is everlastingly hidden from the eyes of men can never be known except through His Manifestation, and His Manifestation can adduce no greater proof of the truth of His Mission than the proof of His own Person.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 49

I would call it 2 natures. Jesus took the nature of a servant but remained in the nature of God also. So the more modern translations of Phil 2 tell us.
Phil 2:6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.

"in very nature" is usually translated as ""in the form of". But the meaning is not the outer form, but the inner form, the nature of.
The word "being" in verse 6 tells us that He remained in that form (in the nature of God) when He took the nature of a servant and was made in the outer likeness of a human.

That is correct. Jesus remained in the form of God (in the nature of God) when He took the nature of a servant and was made in the outer likeness of a human.

Jesus had a twofold nature, one nature divine, the other nature human. In the Bible, when Jesus spoke from His divine nature He was the Voice of God, but when He spoke from His human nature He was a Servant of God. But all along Jesus was both divine and human.

 

[YoursTrue]

Jesus is the Mediator, the only possible Mediator between God and humanity because He is the One and Only Being who is fully God and fully human. Therefore, Jesus Christ alone can be the bridge the gap and mediate between God and human beings.

How can God be a mediator among three "equal" persons? If Jesus was "God in the flesh," he was not equal to the One he prayed to. Either he was greater or lesser than the One he prayed to. You decide. But he was not "equal" to two others called God.