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Featured Does Science disprove the Genesis description of Creation?

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by SA Huguenot, Apr 8, 2021.

  1. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    OK, I intended to ask if the summary was correct, and it was quite obvious that I was going to discuss the points as time progresses.
    But I simply love how the Atheists NEEDS everything to be soooo surgically correct.
    To stay on the vanguard, in case some slight of hand from the Christian will damage the facevalue of Atheism.
    Calm down, give me time and see what I say.
    it wont hurt, I promise!
    All that might happen with you, is you will learn that there are some arguments the Christian has, which will prohibit you from making superficial claims.
    No blood spilled there.
     
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  2. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    ahem......Chapter Two.....is NOT a retelling of Chapter One
     
  3. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    And this is why you know what you said...
    You went and read it yourself.
    I am a collector of different Bibles, and posesses about 200.
    One is the Scoffield, and the other the Dakes.
    Both has these elaborate explanations, and footnotes that interweave all these viewpoints of their religious beliefs.
    I reject both, only because I went and investigated their claims.
    Anyhow, I applaud you for not being a gullable student of reality.
     
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  4. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

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    Why would I leave ambiguity unchecked?
    I like things to be clear.

    Suppose I didn't ask clarification and just went on assuming one thing while you really meant another thing.
    We'ld go into a whole discussion and waste both our time only to realise we were talking past eachother.

    How's it a bad thing then, to clarify things or to ask for clarification when something isn't clear?

    Funny though, your statement reminds me of an experiment I saw a docu about once... Don't remember the exact details, but it concerned some type of test, a series of questions, that were put to both theists and atheists.

    In the way it was scored (which wasn't just about getting things "correct", but also about speed and such), the theists won. The reason for the result was quite hilarious... the conclusion of the experiment was that the theists scored better on the test, because they were less worried about getting answers wrong.

    Maybe I'll try and dig that docu up again on youtube. Might make up for a nice discussion topic in its own thread.

    No, that's not the reason why.
    It's just to be sure I understand what you are saying correctly. That is all.

    Why is that a bad thing?
    You talk about it as if it is a bad thing at least....

    There's no need for you to take up all this time to walk us through it while holding our hand as if we are toddlers.


    You could have just given these arguments in the OP.
    What's with the hold up?
     
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  5. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    What sense then does it make for chapter 2 to be included?
     
  6. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    Jeesh that is a lot of Bibles! I have the Word software. It has many bibles and many commentaries:

    Bible Software theWord!

    My favourite though is the three 1611 KJV versions.

    I have read many explanations of the Genesis issue but it really seems like everybody is picking at straws. Nobody really knows why they have their differences.
     
  7. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Genesis probably isn't what you say its about @SA Huguenot . First, you don't have any claim to say what it is for, as it is part of the Pentateuch. To pretend authority is pretense. Secondly the various created items in the first chapter of Genesis are not treated literally by scripture though you insist they are literal and atheists don't take them literally out of some imagined spite that you propose, but then why don't scriptures take them literally?

    Do you think that scripture does this out of spite and out of atheism? For example Genesis 1:17-18 says that the Sun, moon and stars are set in the vault of heave to rule the day and night; but we read later in Genesis that when Joseph dreams of the stars bowing to himself his brothers instantly know it means they would be bowing to himself. They aren't puzzled by the dream and instantly recognize the symbols. They could not have done that if they did not have a symbolic understanding of the Sun, moon and stars, one which you reject in order to accuse atheists of spite.

    You reject it and criticize atheists and call them bible haters, so what are you? To me it appears you have rejected the real purpose of Genesis and demonstrated you don't care for its meaning, plus you have insulted anyone who doesn't accept your authority over its content.
     
  8. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    Chapter One ends with the formation of Man
    as a species

    male and female.....go forth and multiply
    no names
    no garden
    no law
    domainate all things

    and it was good.....until....
    Man took up that snatch run attitude
    and then turned that ability to dominate.....unto his fellow man
    and Man was set to overrun this planet and it's resources
    as the spirit of Man never had a chance to .....gel

    So....after a day of rest......Chapter Two

    a CHOSEN specimen
    Ideal living conditions
    and the effort to BREATHE a SPIRIT into that one fellow
    Adam is a chosen son of God

    to further the experiment...that the effort not fail to dust
    Adam was laid to a deep sleep.....anesthesia
    a rib removed...surgery
    the rib increased to full stature.....
    that form needed to be female.....genetic manipulation

    and so...EVE....having no navel.....not born of woman
    is given to Adam

    Adam was given his twin sister for a bride

    how's THAT for science?
     
  9. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    OK, so I made a small summary of what Genesis says in the first chapter on how God say He created the Universe.

    But at the time I started to overturn all these atheist / Muslim claims that the Biblical creation narrative is in total contradiction with science, I found the Biblical description very confusing, to say the least. (keep in mind I was a total Atheist and wanted some evidence that the Bible is a joke).

    For instance, what the heck does it mean that there was a “firmament” with waters above and below this thing?

    An Earth without form and void?

    Waters through to the deep?

    OK, I will be honest with myself here.

    I still did not like these verses, because to me they were saying NOTHING AT ALL.

    It was some ancient gibberish to explain how some creator made everything.

    The problem was, that I travelled 115 Km to work, and 115 Km back every day at that time, and eventually a radio gets irritable. And for the most part, I would turn it off, thinking of solutions to work-related problems and so on.

    One day whilst travelling, I found myself thinking about Genesis. Obviously because I did read these first few verses, and it got stuck in my mind as a puzzle waiting to be unravelled. And for some reason, … My Mind said something to me. (yes, we all have a voice speaking to ourself, and it is not a psychological illness, but your consciousness replies to the environment. So do not even think of accusing me of hearing voices and denying you don’t!)

    This was what I heard!

    “How did the Earth look like on the morning of Day 3?”

    I have to leave for home now.

    But think of this question.
     
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  10. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    So, if the Bible say, ...In the beginning God created the Heavens and Earth...
    It should not be taken literally?
    And if it says, Joseph DREAMED... THEN IT SHOULD BE TAKEN LITERRALY?
    I tend to say, I have the capacity to understand when a written record needs me to take something as Litteral, and when to understand it as a "vision", "dream", and so on.
    But, you will see that my observation taken literal, has value exceeding any expectations I had as an Atheist.
    I dont hate Atheists at all.
    I hate the accusations that Atheists uses to think I am gullable in believing theis silly arguments, such as saying I believe in Santa etc.
    Nothing on the person, all in the vicious spirit they spread to demean the Christian God.
     
  11. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    That claim is so vague that it is worthless.
     
  12. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    If it is an insult to show Atheists who claim the Bible to be defficient in science, by showing them the error they are making, I am sorry.
    Now, please advise how I can show the Atheist their accusations they are making is incorrect, without not showing them in my belief that the Bible is my authority, and I will change my wording as such.
    Do you realise that saying I am insulting the atheist because I believe the Bible to be my authority, is an attempt to force me to discard the Bible as my argument under your pretence that its content is offensive to the Atheist?
    I thought they dont care for the Biblical authority at all!
    Why will they be offended about what the Bible say?
    And Why do you expect me to allow these shallow arguments utilised by the Atheist against the contents of the Bible to reign superior to the Christian point of view?
    There is a saying in this regard, which goes for me as well as the Atheist...
    Your feelings does not matter, facts does...
    The Truth is a double edged sword, hurting any one's deceit in its path!
     
  13. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    Or... Worth your while to place this post?
     
  14. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    “How did the Earth look like on the morning of Day 3?”
     
  15. SigurdReginson

    SigurdReginson Grēne Mann
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    I'm curious to know what in your mind qualifies as "bible hating?" I don't find the bible convincing. How does one go from not finding something convincing, and questioning what they have read and were brought up with, to outright hatred?

    Also, what's the difference between an atheist and an anti-theist? I notice you used the word "atheist" instead of "anti-theist."
     
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  16. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Genesis is not the bible. It is book 1 of the Pentateuch, primarily a code of laws. In it the Sun rules the day. The moon and stars rule the night. Most versions say that they govern. Why would day or night need governing? People need governing, and laws are for governing as are judges and governments. Laws divide light from dark. It is just a guess, but maybe this passage has to do with the creation of Israel.

    Scripture refers to the darkness as something within people until the LORD shines into them. "For this command is a lamp, this teaching is a light, and correction and instruction are the way to life," (Proverbs 6:23)

    Whether this accurately describes what Genesis means, I'm not the authority on the Pentateuch. I have stolen the Pentateuch from the Jews. and am reverse engineering it to the best of my ability. They may be a little sore about it. Can you deny doing the same? Which of them owes you a straightforward explanation of what it says? Who reports to you on these matters that you can declare the atheists are haters when they don't agree with you?
     
  17. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    nothing at all......exactly

    try placing yourself ....as God......and yes you can
    and you are attempting to have this conversation with an old man that has wandered unto your mountain

    Moses

    you have no choice but to use terms and nouns that he can picture in HIS mind
    you are trying to introduce youself as .....Creator

    and the guy you are talking to.....use to live in the house of Pharoah
    worshipped false gods
    killed someone
    fled that event
    hid among shepherds
    and came up unto your territory......your mountain
    to meet this God of the Jews

    did you choose him?.....apparently ....not

    can he really serve as your scribe?

    well.....he did know how to read and write

    supposedly
     
    #37 Thief, Apr 8, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021
  18. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    In my favorite movie Noah they do a good creation story.
     
  19. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    Oh wow!
    What you are saying is a total impossibility!
    The God of the Jews?
    There were no Jews in Egypt, Moses was not a Jew, the 12 tribes were not Jews!
    They were Hebrews, and Moses lead Israel into Canaan in 1440Bc,
    in 1000Bc Israel were a kingdom of 12 Hebrew Tribes.
    in 930 Bc, they split up in 2 kingdoms, Israel and Judea.
    in 721 BC Israel was taken into captivity by Shalmanezzer and never returned to Palestine.
    in 605 to 595 Bc the kingdom of Judah was taken into captivity to Babylon by Nebuchannezzar.
    A few (42 360) returned to Jerusalem 70 years later.
    These people were called Judeans.
    eventually many of them intermingled with the Iudumae (Edomites) and were called Yudhae, or as trnslated as Jew.
    Therefore to call Moses a Jew, is the same as calling Charlemagne an American, because there are some french in Louisiana.
    or calling Abraham Lincoln a Viking, because he had some scandinavian, and English blood.
     
  20. SigurdReginson

    SigurdReginson Grēne Mann
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    I'm curious to know where you're getting the dates for these events... Maybe you could post some sources?
     
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