Does rock-n-roll belong at church services?

[Jonathan Bailey]

My Father was a Primitive Baptist. Not only did they NOT have contemporary or Christian rock music but they did not allow piano music or any musical instruments. They sang every hymn acapella. They used shape notes to sing with.

I knew a man raised Catholic who said there was only pipe organ in his church and no piano. Every low church Protestant church I've attended, including army chapels, invariably had a piano and an electric organ. The pianos were usually spinets, consoles and uprights though one Baptist church had a grand piano. Some had choirs but not all. The churches were generally small. Churchgoers always stood up to sing hymns and songs from the song book.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

My Father was a Primitive Baptist. Not only did they NOT have contemporary or Christian rock music but they did not allow piano music or any musical instruments. They sang every hymn acapella. They used shape notes to sing with.

For a while, I attended a Quaker meeting that had no music at all.

 

[sealchan]

My mother once said the drums were the devil's instrument when I told there was one at one of my United Methodist services in the early 1980's. The piano, electric organ and choir were the staple of the church music there. Sometimes guest bands would perform in church with popular music instruments as well. There would be guitars, a bass and a drum set. The music was still staid and conservative, calm like a mellow form of jazz or gospel. Never wild rock-n-roll still. She was raised Catholic and would have regarded pipe organs and choirs as the norm for church music. I love pipe organs with the loud and penetrating state trumpet stop that might sound like the trumpet of the herald angel Gabriel.

There are pipe organs in the song I linked to. The keyboard player Rick Wakeman, in fact, recorded his part on the organ at St Martin's church in Vevey, Switzerland.

 

[Jainarayan]

I enjoy Catholic chanting music like I do Buddhist chanting music, I really like it.

Try some Vedic chants.

The first one is describing the inter-relatedness of creation, and that the one who understands this is wise. From the Yajur Veda.
The second one is a hymn to Sri Lakshmi, from the Rig Veda.

 

[Messianic Israelite]

I prefer more conventional and solemn "white" church music myself.

Pipe organs, hymns, choir, classical music, chants and piano.

Agreed.

Although as a black person, I would debate your use of the term 'white'. Some of the music that people offer to Almighty Yahweh now is ridiculously irreligious and some people can't seem to tell the difference between holy and unholy music. I like listening to classical pieces such as Hymn of the Cherubim

on the Sabbath Day and other pieces like it. Rock and roll doesn't cut it when it comes to offering music to Yahweh.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

There have been Christian rock groups. In the 1950's and 1960's, rock music was the "devil's choir".

Many churches, especially Negro, have long accepted the "gospel" form of popular music but nor hard rock. Reverend Martin Luther King, though progressive in the civil rights movement, still did not approve of rock for Christian worship. Elvis Presley, a christian, would only perform and record devotional music in gospel form. This was far from his wild pelvis-swinging rock and roll numbers. Even the King of Rock would not desecrate the faith with rock.

I prefer more conventional and solemn "white" church music myself.

Pipe organs, hymns, choir, classical music, chants and piano.

Thundering drums, screeching voices and blaring electric guitars don't seem pious in the Lord's house.
It's apt to wake up the dead at funerals. Cause them to rise from their coffins.

Rock and roll used to be about sticking it to the man.

To quote Jack Black in The School of Rock, from the greatest speech ever given in the history of cinema:

"The world is ruled by The Man. Ow, you don't know who the man is!? The man is everywhere! In the white house, in church at the altar(*), down the hall... Miss Mullins! She's the man! And the man ruined to ozone, is burning down the amazone and kidnapped Shammu and put her in a chlorine tank!! And there used to be a way to stick it to the man... it was called rock and roll... But ow no, the man ruined that too, with a little think CALLED MTV!!!! So don’t waste your time trying to make anything cool or pure or awesome ’cause the Man is just gonna call you a fat washed up loser and crush your soul. So do yourselves a favor AND JUST GIVE UP! "




(*) I added the church bit myself, to stay relevant to topic, lol

But indeed, while meant as a joke, it is what it is indeed. Rock 'n Roll, as an art, is really "protest" music. It's the voice of the rebellious youth. It is the voice of the opposition that calls for change. It is the voice that challenges authority and tradition.

To me, "christian rock" is like a "married bachelor".

It makes no sense.

 

[Riders]

Try some Vedic chants.

The first one is describing the inter-relatedness of creation, and that the one who understands this is wise. From the Yajur Veda.
The second one is a hymn to Sri Lakshmi, from the Rig Veda.

is that hindu? That's amazing!

 

[Riders]

To me, someone who is motivated by the style of music offered in worship, should take that into account.

I don't find any essential difference between styles of music that have a positive energy. Partly for me that comes from all the fusions we see: country rock for example.

I would draw the line on some songs, however, as the Simpson's illustrated:

LOL! Did you know that the guys who originally named that song the band that sang it meant it to be In The Garden Of Eden? They were drunk and high when that name came out lol!

 

[Jainarayan]

is that hindu? That's amazing!

Yes, it is. It's Vedic Sanskrit. They are chanted in Hindu temples at certain times.

The first one took me forever to learn. The second one, I can chant a few lines, but I haven't learned it in its entirety, except to read it. It's said that chanting it brings blessings from Goddess Lakshmi.

 

[sealchan]

Rock and roll used to be about sticking it to the man.

To quote Jack Black in The School of Rock, from the greatest speech ever given in the history of cinema:

"The world is ruled by The Man. Ow, you don't know who the man is!? The man is everywhere! In the white house, in church at the altar(*), down the hall... Miss Mullins! She's the man! And the man ruined to ozone, is burning down the amazone and kidnapped Shammu and put her in a chlorine tank!! And there used to be a way to stick it to the man... it was called rock and roll... But ow no, the man ruined that too, with a little think CALLED MTV!!!! So don’t waste your time trying to make anything cool or pure or awesome ’cause the Man is just gonna call you a fat washed up loser and crush your soul. So do yourselves a favor AND JUST GIVE UP! "




(*) I added the church bit myself, to stay relevant to topic, lol

But indeed, while meant as a joke, it is what it is indeed. Rock 'n Roll, as an art, is really "protest" music. It's the voice of the rebellious youth. It is the voice of the opposition that calls for change. It is the voice that challenges authority and tradition.

To me, "christian rock" is like a "married bachelor".

It makes no sense.

Rock transcended simple social rebellion and even love songs in the genre of progressive rock. In that genre rock was merged with other musical genres including classical. And the lyrics often spoke to issues of a phenomenological or spiritual nature.

 

[Father Heathen]

No. It doesn't cultivate a sacred atmosphere.

Isn't that a subjective, personal thing?

 

[Riders]

Rock transcended simple social rebellion and even love songs in the genre of progressive rock. In that genre rock was merged with other musical genres including classical. And the lyrics often spoke to issues of a phenomenological or spiritual nature.

We heard lots of spiritual rock songs in the 60s ,Spirit In The Sky, Turn Turn Turn by The Birds, and other spiritual rock songs......it wasn't all about rebelliun! How bout Let It Be Hey Jude Love Is ALl You NEed lets not forget about protest songs like For What Its worth!

 

[Riders]

Here we are

 

[SomeRandom]

Rock and roll used to be about sticking it to the man.

To quote Jack Black in The School of Rock, from the greatest speech ever given in the history of cinema:

"The world is ruled by The Man. Ow, you don't know who the man is!? The man is everywhere! In the white house, in church at the altar(*), down the hall... Miss Mullins! She's the man! And the man ruined to ozone, is burning down the amazone and kidnapped Shammu and put her in a chlorine tank!! And there used to be a way to stick it to the man... it was called rock and roll... But ow no, the man ruined that too, with a little think CALLED MTV!!!! So don’t waste your time trying to make anything cool or pure or awesome ’cause the Man is just gonna call you a fat washed up loser and crush your soul. So do yourselves a favor AND JUST GIVE UP! "




(*) I added the church bit myself, to stay relevant to topic, lol

But indeed, while meant as a joke, it is what it is indeed. Rock 'n Roll, as an art, is really "protest" music. It's the voice of the rebellious youth. It is the voice of the opposition that calls for change. It is the voice that challenges authority and tradition.

To me, "christian rock" is like a "married bachelor".

It makes no sense.

Couldn’t one make an argument that the original black gospel music was at heart a rebellion of sorts? Sure it was a movement to foster community and comrade. To uplift the spirits of the downtrodden and give them the hope found in the Gospel of Jesus.

But one could make the argument that it was also a kind of backlash against the unholy racist justifications of the era. A rebellious battle cry of sorts.

And rebelling against the world is kind of at the heart of a lot of Christian teachings anyway. Reject the world and it’s sin and all that.
Rock and roll is a rebellion against whomever you please. Music tends to be subjective like that. Some singers/bands even use it to rebel against the devil.

(Not that I necessarily agree or disagree. I’m just playing devils advocate here.)

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Rock transcended simple social rebellion and even love songs in the genre of progressive rock. In that genre rock was merged with other musical genres including classical. And the lyrics often spoke to issues of a phenomenological or spiritual nature.

Yes and punk used to be about the "ultimate sticking it to the man" and then it got hijacked by spoiled rich california skater boys, which I find equally ridiculous

I exaggerate, off course. Nevertheless, I think "rock" still is rebellious enough in spirit to find it very strange to have "christian rock".

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Couldn’t one make an argument that the original black gospel music was at heart a rebellion of sorts? Sure it was a movement to foster community and comrade. To uplift the spirits of the downtrodden and give them the hope found in the Gospel of Jesus.

But one could make the argument that it was also a kind of backlash against the unholy racist justifications of the era. A rebellious battle cry of sorts.

And rebelling against the world is kind of at the heart of a lot of Christian teachings anyway. Reject the world and it’s sin and all that.
Rock and roll is a rebellion against whomever you please. Music tends to be subjective like that. Some singers/bands even use it to rebel against the devil.

(Not that I necessarily agree or disagree. I’m just playing devils advocate here.)

While the style rock certainly grew out of jazz / blues / gospel, I think it's incorrect to equate any of them with rock.

Although you do make a good point. Sure, I think you could say that initially jazz and blues was also kind of rebelious and found in dark, smokey and -at the time- "questionable" clubs and bars.

But that was then and this is now, and the motivations for "rebellion" was very different. That's how I disagree with your otherwise good point.

 

[SomeRandom]

While the style rock certainly grew out of jazz / blues / gospel, I think it's incorrect to equate any of them with rock.

Although you do make a good point. Sure, I think you could say that initially jazz and blues was also kind of rebelious and found in dark, smokey and -at the time- "questionable" clubs and bars.

But that was then and this is now, and the motivations for "rebellion" was very different. That's how I disagree with your otherwise good point.

Fair enough. But I contend that we shape music to whatever is needed. There are Christian death metal groups for goodness sakes.
Music speaks to our soul. If that is true then it should be able to be used in our spiritual journey.
At least that’s how I see it.

 

[sealchan]

Yes and punk used to be about the "ultimate sticking it to the man" and then it got hijacked by spoiled rich california skater boys, which I find equally ridiculous

I exaggerate, off course. Nevertheless, I think "rock" still is rebellious enough in spirit to find it very strange to have "christian rock".

Art has the character of rebellion when it seeks to transcend the perspective of it's time. Jesus was most certainly a rebel.

What if we need, in our time, to shake up our spiritual complacency and refind our souls in the spirit of a rebellion? If Jesus were to return would he not eat with the headbangers?

 

[SomeRandom]

To be honest, IMO this is the only gospel music worth listening to.

Spoiler

course language

*runs from mods*

 

[sojourner]

There have been Christian rock groups. In the 1950's and 1960's, rock music was the "devil's choir".

Many churches, especially Negro, have long accepted the "gospel" form of popular music but nor hard rock. Reverend Martin Luther King, though progressive in the civil rights movement, still did not approve of rock for Christian worship. Elvis Presley, a christian, would only perform and record devotional music in gospel form. This was far from his wild pelvis-swinging rock and roll numbers. Even the King of Rock would not desecrate the faith with rock.

I prefer more conventional and solemn "white" church music myself.

Pipe organs, hymns, choir, classical music, chants and piano.

Thundering drums, screeching voices and blaring electric guitars don't seem pious in the Lord's house.
It's apt to wake up the dead at funerals. Cause them to rise from their coffins.

I'm a member of the clergy and, before that, I was a classically-trained church musician for more than 25 years. I've also been a rock and roller, having played in several bar bands over the years. And, after all this time, I think I've finally come to a position bout this issue. Specifically, what we're doing in worship is entering into the gospel story through the acts we perform and the positions we take before God in worship. Everything we do points us to the story we're becoming part of. it's like entering the story in a movie. Music carries out an important function in worship. It sets a mood. It acts as the "glue" that keeps all the verbal and tangible parts together. It provides a "flow" for the story. It provides an underscore to highlight certain moments. At a couple of points, it provides a "performance piece." It supports sung music which is largely congregational.

Taking all these under consideration, rock music doesn't do those things very well. It can be a fine performance piece, but only if that mood suits and supports the telling of the story. Rock music is generally too high-energy in a way that serves to dissipate rather than focus. It's hard to build to that kind of energy without shocking people, and it's very, very hard to come back down when you need to. If we were to graph the energy during a worship service, a piece of loud rock music would present us with a hard spike, rather than a sine wave.

That being said, I have no problem with contemporary music as opposed to classical or gospel. Just so long as what's being done is done intentionally and well, and with artistic taste.