Does religion make people dishonest?

[Looncall]

Where I live, the government is bringing in a sorely-needed overhaul of the sex education curriculum in the public schools.

Of course, conservative religious types are against it. In the course of their opposition, they have been spreading outright lies about the new curriculum. What gives? We keep hearing that religion is supposed to produce good morals.

On this forum, we encounter religious folk making claims that are obviously untrue. Even when this is pointed out, they continue making the same claims. What gives? We keep hearing that religion is supposed to produce good morals.

Instead of making people truthful, does religion instead make them liars?

 

[George-ananda]

People will stretch the truth in an argument; both the religious and the non-religious. I see it go both ways. It's just common human nature.

 

[leibowde84]

Where I live, the government is bringing in a sorely-needed overhaul of the sex education curriculum in the public schools.

Of course, conservative religious types are against it. In the course of their opposition, they have been spreading outright lies about the new curriculum. What gives? We keep hearing that religion is supposed to produce good morals.

On this forum, we encounter religious folk making claims that are obviously untrue. Even when this is pointed out, they continue making the same claims. What gives? We keep hearing that religion is supposed to produce good morals.

Instead of making people truthful, does religion instead make them liars?

I think religion can cause many to be closed-minded and hold a confirmation-bias. I'm not sure that I would say "dishonest" though.

 

[WirePaladin]

It depends. Some are "true believers" in Eric Hoffer's sense of the word. They have been a decision (sometimes conscious sometimes not) to believe what they want and evidence doesn't matter. So if their belief system says, for example, that sex outside of marriage or homosexual relations are despicable and to be avoided at all costs, then they ACT on those beliefs. Any evidence or argument that conflicts with their beliefs is either ignored or dismissed. So they are not lying in the usual sense, they actually believe the crap they say.

Others are simply charlatans, con-men, clowns, who say and do what they do for reasons of $ or fame, or simply because they like it hear their own words (or read them). They are lying, but it doesn't matter to them.

And then there are the Susan Smith's of the world. They aren't lying either. They have been driven insane by the tenets of the belief system they have adopted. Happens more often than we know. But not always with such tragic consequences.

 

[viole]

Where I live, the government is bringing in a sorely-needed overhaul of the sex education curriculum in the public schools.

Of course, conservative religious types are against it. In the course of their opposition, they have been spreading outright lies about the new curriculum. What gives? We keep hearing that religion is supposed to produce good morals.

On this forum, we encounter religious folk making claims that are obviously untrue. Even when this is pointed out, they continue making the same claims. What gives? We keep hearing that religion is supposed to produce good morals.

Instead of making people truthful, does religion instead make them liars?

They would be liars if they did that on purpose, which I doubt. Delusions are a typical case where you can say false things without lying, for instance.

They simply believe that their morals is the good one. Which is kinda understandable, as long as it does not get used as evidence of objective morality.

Ciao

- viole

 

[icehorse]

It strikes me that unless a person's religious beliefs are seriously watered-down, the basic idea of religion is to pretend to know what you don't (and can't), actually know.

 

[Marisa]

Where I live, the government is bringing in a sorely-needed overhaul of the sex education curriculum in the public schools.

Of course, conservative religious types are against it. In the course of their opposition, they have been spreading outright lies about the new curriculum. What gives? We keep hearing that religion is supposed to produce good morals.

On this forum, we encounter religious folk making claims that are obviously untrue. Even when this is pointed out, they continue making the same claims. What gives? We keep hearing that religion is supposed to produce good morals.

Instead of making people truthful, does religion instead make them liars?

I don't think religion makes people lie. But when you need others to adopt your morals, and the facts of the issue aren't on your side, rationalizing takes over and we can "give ourselves permission" to believe things that aren't true, and repeat those beliefs to others as if they are. It's a most intriguing phenomena, one might think that facts could work to shape and mold our opinions but more and more, we that's less and less true.

 

[ChristineES]

I think religion can cause many to be closed-minded and hold a confirmation-bias. I'm not sure that I would say "dishonest" though.

I think just about anything, not only religion, can make people closed-minded and hold a confirmation-bias. It's a common thing to do that. I see people do it all the time.

 

[leibowde84]

I think just about anything, not only religion, can make people closed-minded and hold a confirmation-bias. It's a common thing to do that. I see people do it all the time.

I agree.

 

[Quintessence]

The need to preserve one's way of life and one's worldview is universally human.

So too, apparently, is the need to scapegoat and demonize various people and entities for perceived problems.

 

[Looncall]

They would be liars if they did that on purpose, which I doubt. Delusions are a typical case where you can say false things without lying, for instance.

They simply believe that their morals is the good one. Which is kinda understandable, as long as it does not get used as evidence of objective morality.

Ciao

- viole

What has been spread, in pamphlets etc, is clear misrepresentation of the new curriculum. They claim it contains things it does not. How can this be anything but lies?

One is an evangelical who is notorious for this sort of thing.

 

[viole]

What has been spread, in pamphlets etc, is clear misrepresentation of the new curriculum. They claim it contains things it does not. How can this be anything but lies?

One is an evangelical who is notorious for this sort of thing.

Well, yes. It is entirely possible that some lie explicetely. But they can do that only because someone else is deluded in believing they are right. But I would not generalize and infer that all evangelicals are liars.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Quintessence]

I bet they are parents, too. We keep hearing parents make claims that aren't true. Even when this is pointed out, the parents continue to lie because they think they are doing what is best for their kids. We keep hearing parents are supposed to be positive role-models for kids, but they are liars. Being a parent makes people into liars.

 

[Laika]

Sex is the one area of life where our insecurities mean we lie through our teeth. This is not unique to religious people nor is lying about sex universal in all cultures, but has alot to do with the often religion shaming of sexuality as 'sinful'. People will lie because they think they are right without ever needing to prove it. In the case of sex, we have an instictual drive which needs to be satisfied, but due to 'morality' we spend our time being hypocritical and being anxious over our desires. What applies to sex does apply to other areas of life that bring out strong emotion. I wouldn't call religious people liars, but there are areas when semi-conscious hypocrisy is the only thing people can do to stick to their morals without questioning them. it's the capacity for self-dellusion that is hard to grasp. (again, not unique to religious people).

 

[Desert Snake]

''Liar'' is such a subjective word. I have been called a 'liar' on the forums, basically. But.. the thing is, are those people who said or inferred that, never ''lying''? I doubt it. They have found a way to shimmy around the dishonesty part, that's all.

 

[ChristineES]

When I was a kid, the other kids would lie in order not to be bullied: Being a kid causes people to be liars. When I was a teenager, other teens would lie about the sexual exploits in order to be "cool", being a teen causes people to be liars. When I was in the Navy, people would lie in order not to get in trouble, being in the Navy causes people to be liars.

 

[outhouse]

Instead of making people truthful, does religion instead make them liars?

Yes it does it to many.

If it did not, I would have few people to debate against.

 

[outhouse]

I'm not sure that I would say "dishonest" though

Many are flat dishonest.

 

[Bunyip]

I think this is the problem that will ultimately demolish the entire creationist movement - it forces believers to sacrifice their honesty.

 

[ChristineES]

A lot of folks do this: Find an person or small group of people, see what they do and then say that "everyone does that". It just isn't a good practice, although I am beginning to believe that people do this regularly, it might be human nature. It's how stereotypes are started, how generalizations become rampant. I caught myself doing it in the past, when I was young and ignorant! I decided, then and there, to try to stop that practice.