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Featured Does religion dictate morality...another perspective?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Evangelicalhumanist, Sep 2, 2019.

  1. Jos

    Jos Active Member

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    I don't get it, can you explain what you mean?
     
  2. Howard Is

    Howard Is Lucky Mud

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    Same objective conditions, different forms.
     
  3. Moz

    Moz Religion. A pox on all their Houses.

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    Hi Dian Fossey's work actually shows that chimps have no moral code or empaty outside their family group. They will gleefully tear apart any outsider, she was shocked when she saw the behaviour.

    And as a dog owner for my whole life, dogs are glorious creatures but moral, i've not seen it.
    Peace.
     
  4. Jos

    Jos Active Member

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    How is it possible for the same conditions to create different results?
     
  5. Howard Is

    Howard Is Lucky Mud

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    Snowflakes.
     
  6. Jos

    Jos Active Member

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    But snowflakes and morality are two different things with different conditions.
     
  7. wellwisher

    wellwisher Active Member

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    Morality is a code of conduct and behavior that is designed to maximize the group. Morality is not about maximizing the subjective needs of individuals. Faith in God is important to maximizing the group, since it helps the ego control itself. God supersedes the ego; individual, and defines general principles common to all; objective reality. Relative morality, which is taught by the Atheist and Progressive religions, maximize the individual, but not the group therefore it is subjective=relative.

    For example, thou shall not steal. This commandment maximizes the group since it builds trust between members of the group and minimizes the resources needed to counter thieves. It also requires everyone work, which is good for group GNP. Relative morality is something that a thief would prefer. They will subjectively justify stealing in their minds, so they can act on impulse and maximize themselves. This causes problems for the group and wastes resources countering the thief. The same team logic applies to all ten commandants.

    The team or the group is more than the sum of its parts. By maximizing the team, all the team members are raised higher than as individuals. This sweet spot, where the team becomes than more the sum of it parts; championship team, is based on objectivity. Not every subjective team path will work. It has to funnel down a narrow path; objective.

    Fear of God is the beginning of knowledge and wisdom. Or fear of God; control of subjective impulse and relative reference, brings the possibility of objectivity. For example, Science tries to be objective. Objectivity in science is not developed based on relative perception. It is based on universal group verification; team code, that elevates all; Morality=Team Objectivity.

    Objectivity requires sacrifice of the ego subjectivity, in favor of the needs of the team. Teams with too many subjective hot dogs will never become the champion, even if all the players are skilled. Champions require self sacrifice in favor the team machine.
     
  8. Howard Is

    Howard Is Lucky Mud

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    Metaphor
     
  9. Jos

    Jos Active Member

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    Right but it doesn't help your case.
     
  10. Howard Is

    Howard Is Lucky Mud

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    Yeah it does.
    Use your brain.
     
  11. Jos

    Jos Active Member

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    Doesn't objective mean that everyone should have the same moral intuitions?
     
  12. Howard Is

    Howard Is Lucky Mud

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    You are going round and around in a circle....on your own.
     
  13. Jos

    Jos Active Member

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    Sorry about that but it just seems illogical that different moral intuitions would be objective. Or maybe you mean they're objective in terms of how they're felt? Like the feelings are objectively real?
     
  14. Howard Is

    Howard Is Lucky Mud

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    Morality is a general term for genetically coded group affiliation behaviours.

    It can have various forms of expression.

    The precise behaviours are not the point. What has evolved is the meta program of group affiliation. Specific instances have variations.

    Metaphor - snowflakes. Because they are all water subject to a process, and have fundamental similarities, yet are unique. OK ?

    Exact isomorphic mapping is not required for metaphors. They are inherently approximations.

    What is required is some attempt to understand what is being metaphorically described or hypothetically proposed.
     
    #154 Howard Is, Sep 9, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  15. ArtieE

    ArtieE Well-Known Member

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    You might be interested in functionally objective morality. Evolution and Functionally Objective Morality - The Gemsbok
     
  16. syo

    syo Well-Known Member

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    in paganism we have a saying from the delphi oracle, 'know yourself and you will know the universe and the gods.'
     
  17. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member
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    I don't see anyone as being either moral or immoral in totality. We all display both on a daily basis. It's all a question of degree and frequency.
    Then there are the finer points......for instance, if a person has tendencies towards pedophilia, but he does not act on the impulses, is he moral or immoral?
     
  18. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member
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    Morality and ethics are complicated. I'm always open to ideas. Explain why one is moral if one refrains from immoral acts out of fear.
     
  19. ArtieE

    ArtieE Well-Known Member

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    It wasn't designed, it just evolved.
    Sure. If we can get sociopaths and psychopaths to believe in God and follow the Ten Commandments and the Golden Rule it's better for the rest of us.
     
  20. atanu

    atanu Member
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    Why should one who has realised the oneness of the truth in all fear? As an upanishad asks "He who perceives all beings as the Self’ for him how can there be delusion or grief, when he sees this oneness (everywhere)?"
     
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