Does Rape Justify Murder?

[Fascist Christ]

I know this is a touchy issue. As a man, I cannot possibly fully understand how a woman is affected by rape. This is something only a woman can understand.

I am puzzled though, and hope I could get some explanation on this. The idea came up in discussions about abortion, but I think it applies eslewhere as well.

First, considering the stance of opposition to abortion, I have quite often heard that rape is an exception. So, if abortion is considered murder, does rape justify the murder of someone who was not at all involved in the rape?

Secondly, considering capital punishment, should rapists get the needle?

Thirdly, considering self defence, should a woman have the right to kill the attacker even if her life is not in danger?

 

[jamaesi]

First, considering the stance of opposition to abortion, I have quite often heard that rape is an exception. So, if abortion is considered murder, does rape justify the murder of someone who was not at all involved in the rape?

Justify the additional trauma that the woman will have to go through- especially if she does not want that child.

It's sick to force something else on the body of someone who has already been violated.

Secondly, considering capital punishment, should rapists get the needle?

Yes.

Thirdly, considering self defence, should a woman have the right to kill the attacker even if her life is not in danger?

Yes.

If he wanted to stay alive, he shouldn't have been forcing himself on another person like that.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

no - no - yes

 

[jewscout]

First, considering the stance of opposition to abortion, I have quite often heard that rape is an exception. So, if abortion is considered murder, does rape justify the murder of someone who was not at all involved in the rape?

that is, of course, if you consider abortion "murder"

Secondly, considering capital punishment, should rapists get the needle?

no, i think it's too good for them...after what i'd put them through, the hell i send them to will seem like heaven

Thirdly, considering self defence, should a woman have the right to kill the attacker even if her life is not in danger?

damn skippy!

 

[Quoth The Raven]

I know this is a touchy issue. As a man, I cannot possibly fully understand how a woman is affected by rape. This is something only a woman can understand.

I am puzzled though, and hope I could get some explanation on this. The idea came up in discussions about abortion, but I think it applies eslewhere as well.

First, considering the stance of opposition to abortion, I have quite often heard that rape is an exception. So, if abortion is considered murder, does rape justify the murder of someone who was not at all involved in the rape?

Secondly, considering capital punishment, should rapists get the needle?

Thirdly, considering self defence, should a woman have the right to kill the attacker even if her life is not in danger?

I don't know that anyone would say rape justifies the murder of someone uninvolved in the rape, but often in the case of a pregnancy resulting from rape - unless the woman is able to differentiate the attacker from the obviously unwanted pregnancy, which I imagine would be reasonably rare - you're looking at the mental health of the woman and how the pregnancy would further impact on that. For many women it's hard enough to get past as it is, having to carry the child of your rapist would be enough to send many people over the edge. It's unfortunate in cases like this that the child is more a case of collateral damage than someone not at all involved.

If we're talking capital punishment for rape, what else would they get, if the needle is the tool of choice of the state they're in?

Once again, this goes to state of mind. Her life may not actually be in danger, but rape is a crime of violence, and even though the attacker may have no plans to kill his victim, realistically she's in no position to know that. It's not like he calmly walks up to you and says,'Would you mind...?' Killing a rapist is hardly a premeditated act (unless she hunts him down and shoots him after the event), so if she fears for her life - and frankly, why wouldn't you - it's fully justifiable.

 

[NoName]

First, considering the stance of opposition to abortion, I have quite often heard that rape is an exception. So, if abortion is considered murder, does rape justify the murder of someone who was not at all involved in the rape?

Interesting question! I say no. Nobody deserves to die for something someone else did. You don't visit the sins of the fathers on the children.

Secondly, considering capital punishment, should rapists get the needle?

No. I don't think anybody should get the needle. Violent criminals should get slave labour - repay society.

Thirdly, considering self defence, should a woman have the right to kill the attacker even if her life is not in danger?

Sort of. I don't think the woman should purposefully try to kill the man, but if, in self-defense, she does, she shouldn't be blamed for his death.

 

[nutshell]

no-no-no

 

[Engyo]

Interesting question! I say no. Nobody deserves to die for something someone else did. You don't visit the sins of the fathers on the children.

This ignores the question of forcing the rape victim to suffer the consequences of being raped for another 9 months, more or less. Is there no consideration of the rape victim and her mental health? Or does she somehow "deserve" this?

 

[NoName]

This ignores the question of forcing the rape victim to suffer the consequences of being raped for another 9 months, more or less. Is there no consideration of the rape victim and her mental health? Or does she somehow "deserve" this?

Does the baby deserve it? Why should one be valued over the other. "being raped" for another nine months, or "Being murdered" for another 80 years?

 

[Engyo]

Does the baby deserve it? Why should one be valued over the other. "being raped" for another nine months, or "Being murdered" for another 80 years?

This begs the question of whether the rights of a fetus are the same as the rights of an adult (or near adult) female human. It also seems like a good point to introduce discussion of a "morning after" type of preventative in all cases of rape, at the victim's request, of course.

Another point to address is the equal treatment issue; by this I mean that a rape victim who becomes impregnated would be treated differently than one who does not become impregnated, if she were forced to carry a rape fetus to term.

Truly, there are no winners in this issue.

 

[robtex]

Deut, Nutshell can yall elaborate on your single word answers ? Me still pondering.

 

[Fascist Christ]

My opinions...

abortion - I do not consider first and second term abortions to be murder, so there is no issue there for me.

capital punishment - I am sure we can come up with more creative methods of punishment than something capital.

self defence - This is the only type of situation in which I can justify killing someone. However, it is difficult to define proper discretion. I mean, we can't have women shooting any man that touches their chest without permission. I know that is wrong, and it could escalate to rape, but I think that case would be jumping the gun (no pun intended). On the other hand, we cannot suggest that she wait to be pinned down and knocked out before acting.

 

[michel]

no - no - yes

I agree completely.

So, if abortion is considered murder, does rape justify the murder of someone who was not at all involved in the rape?

Morally no, but I would understand the mother of the child wanting to have nothing to do with her child.

Secondly, considering capital punishment, should rapists get the needle?

No, because I do not accept capital punishment.

Thirdly, considering self defence, should a woman have the right to kill the attacker even if her life is not in danger?

Yes, because she cannot know that her life is not in danger.

 

[Engyo]

I agree completely.

Morally no, but I would understand the mother of the child wanting to have nothing to do with her child.
No, because I do not accept capital punishment.
Yes, because she cannot know that her life is not in danger.

Michel -

Could you understand the rape victim wanting NOT to bear the child of rape?

The other interesting thing I see here is that most of the posters to this thread are men. I think it should be women who have the greatest say on this issue, as they are by far the most affected by it.

 

[Faint]

My opinions...

abortion - I do not consider first and second term abortions to be murder, so there is no issue there for me..

...nor me. And no woman should be forced to carry through a pregnancy she never wanted. This isn't an accident like "the condom broke" or whatever--this is RAPE, people. The woman's rights are greater than those of her attacker's undeveloped offspring.

capital punishment - I am sure we can come up with more creative methods of punishment than something capital..

More creative--I like the sound of that. Maybe castration for a start, then some kind of cruel and unusual torture? No rapist is worth more than his crime. I have no sympathy for rapists--all I would be worried about are false accusations and false convictions.

self defence - This is the only type of situation in which I can justify killing someone. However, it is difficult to define proper discretion. I mean, we can't have women shooting any man that touches their chest without permission. I know that is wrong, and it could escalate to rape, but I think that case would be jumping the gun (no pun intended). On the other hand, we cannot suggest that she wait to be pinned down and knocked out before acting.

I agree with this too, although I would say that most women can probably tell when a man has crossed the line from groping without permission to intent to rape.

Incidently, I've known several young women who were raped or nearly raped at some point in their lives. When you say "rapist", you are not talking about a man--you're talking about a violent pile of s**t pretending to be human. Violent piles of s**t do not have the same rights as real men and should not expect any more compassion then they've shown their victims.

 

[michel]

Michel -

Could you understand the rape victim wanting NOT to bear the child of rape?

The other interesting thing I see here is that most of the posters to this thread are men. I think it should be women who have the greatest say on this issue, as they are by far the most affected by it.

Of course I could understand that; strangely enough, there was a reasonably local case of rape, where the woman chose to have the baby (because she felt that the baby was blameless, and therefore should not be made to suffer for the crime of the rapist).

Theultimate choice should be that oif the woman, there is no doubt, but we were asked our thought, which is what I gave - my thoughts, as a man. As you say, few women have yet posted..................

 

[jamaesi]

Of course I could understand that; strangely enough, there was a reasonably local case of rape, where the woman chose to have the baby (because she felt that the baby was blameless, and therefore should not be made to suffer for the crime of the rapist).

I´ve said it before, if my rape had resulted in pregnancy, I would have had an abortion or would have drasticly hurt myself if denied that.

There´s only so much violation one person can handle- and for that to be there every day for nine months as a constant reminder... It´s horrible to think about.

 

[Faminedynasty]

Would any reasonable person suggest that rape victims should be forced to give birth (possibly dying in the process themselves) to the baby of their rapist? I don't think so. I don't think that anyone with even the slightest regard for women would. But there are a great deal of men (and women) who do believe that rape victims deserve just that. It's amazing.

 

[NoName]

Would any reasonable person suggest that rape victims should be forced to give birth (possibly dying in the process themselves) to the baby of their rapist? I don't think so. I don't think that anyone with even the slightest regard for women would. But there are a great deal of men (and women) who do believe that rape victims deserve just that. It's amazing.

But once again, why should the baby have to suffer death, and never get to have any life at all, just because he was the product of rape? I don't think that anyone with even the slightest regard for the child would.

 

[Faminedynasty]

I suppose ultimately it comes down to whether you hold women or fetuses in higher regard. From a Christian standpoint, the book of exodus clearly demonstrates that the killing of a fetus is not equal to the killing of a person. The punishment for a man causing a miscarriage (presumably in regards to a woman wanting to give birth to the baby, and therefore presumably a much higher crime than a woman aborting of her own free will) is a fine. Death penalty for murdering a person, a fine for killing a fetus. I'm not saying that this is the correct perspective,but, most of the anti-abortion sentiment in the United States comes from Chrisitans, and the notion of abortion as murder is not consistent with Christianity.