Does Quran disagree with a portion of the Bible?

[firedragon]

Then you agree that the Quran does not say that the Torah and Gospel current among people are written by people and falsely attributed to Allah?

You keep making things up for other people. Do you actually try at least for a minute to be honest about other people? Is there any effort at all?

Good, so, finally you agree that is just opinion of many Muslims, and not what the Quran says.

Bogus attempt. Aunt sally.

I did explain. You conveniently ignored what I wrote about this in my precious post.

No you didnt.

The Criterion given to Moses and Aaron, was the Torah.

Hmm. So you now claim the Torah was given to Moses and Aaron both. Not only Moses. Okay. So in that case, as the Quran says, the Torah must have been given to Abraham as well right? Of course I have told you about the Quranic verse which your website does not teach you about. So, do you agree that Abraham also received the Torah then?

See, the Torah is specific to Moses.

You contradicted yourself.

 

[firedragon]

@InvestigateTruth

Curious question. Why do you ignore the questions asked from you about your lectures in arabic? You made some absurd or rather unbelievable arabic lectures about some words that have no sounding in the arabic language. Like the O sound. And the E sound. And Kaf becoming a nonsensical G and H. And a Sukun becoming a miraculous O. While a very simple kasara becoming an alien sound.

Why dont you first explain that? I mean you have invented an unbelievable language calling it Quranic arabic. So you should explain that first dont you think?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

You keep making things up for other people. Do you actually try at least for a minute to be honest about other people? Is there any effort at all?



Bogus attempt. Aunt sally.



No you didnt.



Hmm. So you now claim the Torah was given to Moses and Aaron both. Not only Moses. Okay. So in that case, as the Quran says, the Torah must have been given to Abraham as well right? Of course I have told you about the Quranic verse which your website does not teach you about. So, do you agree that Abraham also received the Torah then?



You contradicted yourself.

Torah was revealed by Moses. Then it was given to other Prophets and even the Rabbis as standard. Torah was not revealed to Aaron. But it was given to Aaran through Moses, whereas Moses received it directly from God.
All the best to you

 

[InvestigateTruth]

@InvestigateTruth

Curious question. Why do you ignore the questions asked from you about your lectures in arabic? You made some absurd or rather unbelievable arabic lectures about some words that have no sounding in the arabic language. Like the O sound. And the E sound. And Kaf becoming a nonsensical G and H. And a Sukun becoming a miraculous O. While a very simple kasara becoming an alien sound.

Why dont you first explain that? I mean you have invented an unbelievable language calling it Quranic arabic. So you should explain that first dont you think?

It is irrelevant my friend. You know I am not an Arab. But, many of the words, and specially classical Arabic words are used by Persians. Arabic and Persian are mixed together. Just as for example English and Spanish are mixed. Many words are the same. But each people have their own accent and pronunciation.
In fact, some south part of Iran, people speak Arabic as their first language.
All Persian people who are Muslim or Non-Muslims pronunce Ghoraan. They don't say Quran. Likewise, Sahifeh is used in Persian as well.
I care about meanings much more than accent and pronunciation.

 

[firedragon]

Torah was revealed by Moses.

Quran does not say that.

It is irrelevant my friend. You know I am not an Arab.

Perfectly fine. Just dont pretend, and cut and paste, and make false claims. that's all that matters. Try to be like an American atheist scholar of Islam (As an example). That is all that is needed. Dont make false claims.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Quran does not say that.
.

No, it does not say that directly. But the verses of Quran imply that very obviously. in view of Allah, the Torah and Injil were revealed for Jews and Christians as guidance:

"Say, “O people of the Book, you have nothing to stand on, unless you uphold the Torah and the Injīl and what has been sent down to you from your Lord.” What has been sent down to you from your Lord will certainly make many of them more persistent in rebellion and disbelief. So, do not grieve over the disbelieving people"

5:68



Also:

"All [the] food was lawful for (the) Children (of) Israel except what made unlawful Israel upon himself from before [that] (was) revealed the Taurat. Say, "So bring the Taurat and recite it if you are truthful."


Question: If the real Torah is not available, how come this verse asks them to bring it and recite it?

"But how can they appoint you a judge while they (have) with them the Taurat, in it (is the) Command (of) Allah? Then they turn away from after that, and not those (are) the believers."

This verse clearly says the Torah with them has commands of Allah. What else could this verse mean?

 

[firedragon]

No, it does not say that directly. But the verses of Quran imply that very obviously. in view of Allah, the Torah and Injil were revealed for Jews and Christians as guidance:

"Say, “O people of the Book, you have nothing to stand on, unless you uphold the Torah and the Injīl and what has been sent down to you from your Lord.” What has been sent down to you from your Lord will certainly make many of them more persistent in rebellion and disbelief. So, do not grieve over the disbelieving people"

5:68

Yes. For the millionth time, so were revelations given to Jacob, Ishmael, Abraham, Moses, the Patriarchs.

This verse clearly says the Torah with them has commands of Allah. What else could this verse mean?

I dont know who said the Torah doesnt have Gods commands. Its strange you should say that as if any revelation of God ever given would not have Gods commandments in it. Its like saying Virginia wolf wrote books but didnt have her words in them.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Which verse? And how is that affecting the Islamic theology? Please explain.
.

These verses of Quran about judgment day signs:

"When the sun shall be darkened, And when the stars fall" Quran 81:1-2

Now compare this with Bible

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the ...." Matt. 24:29


Do you see the signs of Judgement Day in Quran and Bible are identical?
Now, is that a coincidence? Was Quran copied from Bible, and just revised? Or, they are both from the same God?
Which one is it?

 

[firedragon]

These verses of Quran about judgment day signs:

"When the sun shall be darkened, And when the stars fall" Quran 81:1-2

Now compare this with Bible

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the ...." Matt. 24:29


Do you see the signs of Judgement Day in Quran and Bible are identical?
Now, is that a coincidence? Was Quran copied from Bible, and just revised? Or, they are both from the same God?
Which one is it?

Well, I know you dont believe in the Quran as Gods word thought you from your theological point of view pretend.

Ill tell you what. Aristotle spoke of God. Do you think the Quran "copied" from Aristotle?

Alright. The Bible says that the lord is one. Jesus says the lord is one. Did Gospel writer copy from the Tanakh? The NT speaks of Jesus as "son of man", Bar Nashaa. Why didnt the Qur'an copy that?

 

[stanberger]

No.

But if you dont do a bit of research prior to making such big claims, you could make very simple errors. You can cut and paste all you want Tony, but you can never change the Quranic text because its written already. It does not say Moses was given the Torah, and you cant change it. What you can change is, learn something.

anywhere in bible that teaches man/made trinity over monotheism that all prophets including Jesus taught muslims are to ignore

 

[stanberger]

I didnt say "Torah was not given to Moses". Thats a strawman.

Let me say it again. Nowhere in the Quran does it say the Torah was given to Moses. As always you could cut and paste all you want.

Also, the Quran speaks of revelation given to many. Abraham, Ishmael, Jacob, the patriarchs, Moses, Jesus, by name are mentioned. So just because the word "Jews" is there, does not mean "Moses was given the Torah". You can interpolate it because its someones tradition to believe it but none of that means "Its in the Quran".

Mate. The Quran says directly "Suhufi Ibrahima wa moosa" which means both Abraham and Moses were given "The Scrolls". Why do yo ignore part of the Quran? So which revelation was given to both Abraham and Moses according to the Qur'an?

 

[stanberger]

the torah we have today is not moses original

 

[firedragon]

anywhere in bible that teaches man/made trinity over monotheism that all prophets including Jesus taught muslims are to ignore

I dont understand your post.

 

[firedragon]

the torah we have today is not moses original

The "Torah" we think we have today is not called "Torah" within it. Its five different books. And many scholars for two centuries have contended that it was written by 4 different schools of thought. Yahwists, Eulogists, Priestly sources, and Deuteronomy.

During the time of Bahaullah he was probably not aware of any kind of Bible scholarship. Maybe even during the time of Abdul Baha.

 

[stanberger]

I dont understand your post.

we muslims only reject bible verses where trinity is taught instead of monotheism

 

[firedragon]

we muslims only reject bible verses where trinity is taught instead of monotheism

Do you accept the verse where Jesus sends demons into some pigs and they all run into water and die? Or do you accept the story of the adulterous woman where Jesus famous says "the one who has not sinned throw the stone"?

 

[stanberger]

Do you accept the verse where Jesus sends demons into some pigs and they all run into water and die? Or do you accept the story of the adulterous woman where Jesus famous says "the one who has not sinned throw the stone"?

Jesus raised from the dead and healed the sick by leave of god the creator. fully support that as a muslim

 

[firedragon]

Jesus raised from the dead and healed the sick by leave of god the creator. fully support that as a muslim

Thats not the question I asked. Ill repeat.

• Do you accept the verse where Jesus sends demons into some pigs and they all run into water and die?
• Or do you accept the story of the adulterous woman where Jesus famous says "the one who has not sinned throw the stone"?

 

[firedragon]

we muslims only reject bible verses where trinity is taught instead of monotheism

Another question. Which verse in the Bible teaches the trinity? Can you give a few examples?

Thank you.

 

[stanberger]

Thats not the question I asked. Ill repeat.

• Do you accept the verse where Jesus sends demons into some pigs and they all run into water and die?
• Or do you accept the story of the adulterous woman where Jesus famous says "the one who has not sinned throw the stone"?

Thats not the question I asked. Ill repeat.

• Do you accept the verse where Jesus sends demons into some pigs and they all run into water and die?
• Or do you accept the story of the adulterous woman where Jesus famous says "the one who has not sinned throw the stone"?

the latter was debunked by biblical scholar bart erman in 'misquoting Jesus' was not in original gospel manuscript so can't support that fiction