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Does proselyzing hurt or harm people?

Dan4reason

Facts not Faith
I am against the form of prosletizing in which one party insults the other or is constantly engaging the other in debate all the time.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
I know a young recently married couple. During the courtship, (if you can still call it that) the girl's parents switched to a far more fundamentalist group within Christianity. The boy is Hindu, but quite a liberal one.

(On a side note, mixed faith marriages are a whole new debate, but a necessary one, as they are becoming far more common)

So the young couple decided to appease both sets of parents, and have two weddings, a Hindu one, and a Christian one. The kids themselves were liberal and respecting enough to allow for this, despite objections from the bride's parents.

So when the wedding day arrives, the parents of bride boycott, and are a no-show at the Hindu wedding, but the Hindu parents, in support of their son, attend the Christian wedding. I got to attend one wedding that day.

Now, I really don't know how its all going to work out. I'm sure things won't be smooth, despite the sincere prayers from both sides.

So this is just an example, but one that is becoming far more common in our world, of the pain and confusion conversion can cause, and the originating process was proseleytizing.

The problem here was not proseleytizing.
 

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
Proselytism hm.
Iam a peaceful person. And thats the only reason i havent taken drastic measures against the JWs and LDSs who "visit" me once a month to "show me the light that is jesus christ".


Without a doubt i can say that i dislike them. But iam a peaceful person.
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
And I notice you TOTALLY DUCKED my point about whether you accept statements about Baha'is by the Iranian government as truthful!

Bruce
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
From the Iranian government's point of view, it bore truth. Clearly you must see many examples of different 'truth's here on RF. I am not familiar with the entire situation, nor do I want to be. My guess would be I would side with the Bahai's but I'm really not sure. I hope 'I don't know' is a sufficient answer for you. As you may know, many other religions face discrimination, or worse in many countries. Your faith is certainly not alone in this.

BTW, why do you use a larger font than most everyone else?
 

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
Proselytism hm.
Iam a peaceful person. And thats the only reason i havent taken drastic measures against the JWs and LDSs who "visit" me once a month to "show me the light that is jesus christ".


Without a doubt i can say that i dislike them. But iam a peaceful person.

But should their offenses force us to be tolerant of their arrogance?

One day I am going to go off my nut at these people because I resent the fact that they can't seem to fathom that what they do is offensive and infringing on my privacy and freedom of religion in freedom from religion at least within my own home.
 
For some reason, no one come to my door anymore. After one Saturday when my husband was in the garage working on his truck, a young woman walked into the garage without invitation and said "can I leave something with you?" to my husband. He promptly replied "no" and went about his business. She wouldn't leave! She then said "I think you would be interested..." he interrupted her and told her he didn't care, and she asked "Is it Jesus you don't care about?" I don't know what happened from there, but no one comes to our house anymore.
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
My mother has a harsh way about her, she once chased away some JWs from her house and they were afraid to come over after that. I cringed at what she did, but she did keep them from coming to her house. I don't dislike the missionaries that come to our home, but I am already a Christian and I don't need that kind of talk. One JW lady was surprised that I knew the Bible as if only JWs know the bible, but she was nice about it. Most of the time, if I know it's them I just don't answer my door: Rude, but effective.
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
And another question: Do any of you have a "No solicitor's" sign at your door? We used to have one but some people ignored it (It said "No solicitors, no salesmen, and so on" we put a whole list of people, for the people who may not know what "solicitor" means, LOL). I'd have one now but the management at the Mobile Home park doesn't allow it. No other Christians come to my mobile home park now except JW's. If fact, the only Christians who ever came to my door were LDS and JWs. I don't recall any Baptists, Methodists, or Presbyterians coming to my door. Other religions never come to my door either.
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
And that's part of the sales process, too.

Another technique that I've read: if 10% (or whatever it happens to be) of your prospects result in an actual sale, then you can motivate yourself by thinking of every "no" as 1/10 of a "yes". I don't doubt that your hang-up gets counted as another step in the process that will end with winning that next sale/convert.


I don't doubt it, but there's a reason why people do come door-to-door selling religion or other products: because it's an effective technique. You might not be buying, but enough people are buying to make it worth their while.

I don't doubt that, the phone people kept calling and calling us and at dinner time, too. I got so annoyed when recorded messages kept calling us (You'd think they'd use real people to call). Every time they called, I pushed the pound key repeatedly and they stopped calling (if it was a human person, I don't know if I would have done the same thing). We still get recorded messages about selling our home, paying off our mortgage (we paid off our mobile home and we don't even have a mortgage anymore), and credit protection but not as often. I think there are better ways to sell things than using recorded messages on people's phones or to go to their house.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
My mother has a harsh way about her, she once chased away some JWs from her house and they were afraid to come over after that. I cringed at what she did, but she did keep them from coming to her house. I don't dislike the missionaries that come to our home, but I am already a Christian and I don't need that kind of talk. One JW lady was surprised that I knew the Bible as if only JWs know the bible, but she was nice about it. Most of the time, if I know it's them I just don't answer my door: Rude, but effective.
I was a bit disappointed by myself with how I handled an incident where a couple of Mormon missionaries approached me on the bus. As I saw them working their way down the bus talking to each person, I got to thinking about how disrespectful I considered proselytizing to be in general, and how it felt wrong to me for someone to do it to a captive audience that couldn't just walk away or close a door to leave the conversation. By the time they got to me I was pretty angry, and I think it came through in my tone to them. I said to them, pretty gruffly, "I don't think what you're doing is right." I was actually so mad that I had trouble coming up with something to say to follow it up. They looked confused for a moment, and then walked away and got off the bus at the next stop.

In retrospect, even though I know I wouldn't have been violent toward them, I think they may have thought that I was a threat to their safety.

I think I probably could've handled it better.

And another question: Do any of you have a "No solicitor's" sign at your door? We used to have one but some people ignored it (It said "No solicitors, no salesmen, and so on" we put a whole list of people, for the people who may not know what "solicitor" means, LOL).
Heh... it just means "lawyer", and I'm not a lawyer, so I can ring the bell, right? ;)

I'd have one now but the management at the Mobile Home park doesn't allow it. No other Christians come to my mobile home park now except JW's. If fact, the only Christians who ever came to my door were LDS and JWs. I don't recall any Baptists, Methodists, or Presbyterians coming to my door. Other religions never come to my door either.
I once had a Catholic come to my door proselytizing, but I got the impression that this was her own personal idea. I don't think she was exactly working under official sanction to do this.

I don't doubt that, the phone people kept calling and calling us and at dinner time, too. I got so annoyed when recorded messages kept calling us (You'd think they'd use real people to call). Every time they called, I pushed the pound key repeatedly and they stopped calling (if it was a human person, I don't know if I would have done the same thing). We still get recorded messages about selling our home, paying off our mortgage (we paid off our mobile home and we don't even have a mortgage anymore), and credit protection but not as often. I think there are better ways to sell things than using recorded messages on people's phones or to go to their house.
Recorded messages have been illegal for telemarketers here for a while. I like that.

... though they're still legal for political campaigns for some reason, which gets annoying around election time.

Also, Canada now has a national "Do Not Call" registry: submit your phone number to the government online, and it goes on a list that telemarketers are forbidden to call under threat of some serious fines. Now, when I do get the odd telemarketer call me, which is pretty rare now, all I say is "I'm on the 'Do Not Call' registry" and they immediately apologize and hang up. :D
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
From the Iranian government's point of view, it bore truth.

You will forgive me, I trust, if I point out that I've rarely seen a more ridiculous statement. The more so given how many countries have recently condemned Iran for its oppression--and yes, execution--of Baha'is!

Besides which, willful ignorance is NEVER a virtue!

Bruce
 
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Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
You will forgive me, I trust, if I point out that I've rarely seen a more ridiculous statement. The more so given how many countries have recently condemned Iran for its oppression--and yes, execution--of Baha'is!

Besides which, willful ignorance is NEVER a virtue!

Bruce


Oh come on now. I never once said I agreed with the Iranian government point of view. I'm merely pointing out that there ARE points of view. Christianity and Islam have a long history of executions in the name of religion. I'm truly sorry that it goes on today ... to Bahai's or anyone else. But it seems to me that you really think there is only one valid and true point of view. Your version of religion. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I don't buy into that.
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
I never once said I agreed with the Iranian government point of view.

Which of course in no way prevented you from implying that there's something worth defending about their POV, aka bigotry!

And even it you do believe that, it simply reinforces what I already stated:

Willful ignorance is NEVER a virtue!

So my position stands.

Bruce
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I never meant to imply anything. That's your take. But you have the right to your take. I stand against any injustice, whether its to Bahais in Iran, the victims of Katrina in New Orleans, Hindu persecution in Bangladesh, Malaysia, or Pakistan, the oppression of women or homosexuals in all kinds of religions. The list gets very large once you start:

aboriginals in Australia, aboriginals in Canada, the disabled, soldiers upon returning home, child labour, ... ...

All religions and faiths have qualities, some I agree with, some I don't.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I was a bit disappointed by myself with how I handled an incident where a couple of Mormon missionaries approached me on the bus. As I saw them working their way down the bus talking to each person, I got to thinking about how disrespectful I considered proselytizing to be in general, and how it felt wrong to me for someone to do it to a captive audience that couldn't just walk away or close a door to leave the conversation. By the time they got to me I was pretty angry, and I think it came through in my tone to them. I said to them, pretty gruffly, "I don't think what you're doing is right." I was actually so mad that I had trouble coming up with something to say to follow it up. They looked confused for a moment, and then walked away and got off the bus at the next stop.

In retrospect, even though I know I wouldn't have been violent toward them, I think they may have thought that I was a threat to their safety.

I think I probably could've handled it better.
You know what? I think that what they were doing was wrong, too. They had a captive audience and were taking advantage of that fact. On the other hand, I'm curious as to how persistent they were with people. Most LDS missionaries aren't particularly in-your-face obnoxious if you let them know you're not interested.
 
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Wasn't it Jesus who said that the harvest was plentiful but the laborers
are few. The Bible states that my people perish for a lack of knowledge.
Go into to all the world and preach the good news (aka Gospel)
and Baptize them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
As a true follower of Christ, Christians should openly share their faith.

Pastor Richards
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
Wasn't it Jesus who said that the harvest was plentiful but the laborers
are few. The Bible states that my people perish for a lack of knowledge.
Go into to all the world and preach the good news (aka Gospel)
and Baptize them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
As a true follower of Christ, Christians should openly share their faith.

Pastor Richards

so, as a true follower...
"Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel."
matthew 10:5,6
 
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9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Wasn't it Jesus who said that the harvest was plentiful but the laborers
are few. The Bible states that my people perish for a lack of knowledge.
Go into to all the world and preach the good news (aka Gospel)
and Baptize them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
As a true follower of Christ, Christians should openly share their faith.

Pastor Richards
IMO, it's inherently disrespectful to consider other human beings as a "crop" to be "harvested". It's dehumanizing.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
IMO, it's inherently disrespectful to consider other human beings as a "crop" to be "harvested". It's dehumanizing.

Not to mention rude, arrogant, condescending, irritating, insensitive, adharmic, plain silly, and hypocritical. it's hypocritical because when turned in the other direction, for some reason, its NOT okay.
 
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