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Does 'prakriti' disappear??

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Does the Ultimate Reality have intelligence of its own distinct from the intelligence of the human being?
No. Ultimate Reality comprises universal awareness and unity. It's ourselves who have the illusion of 'distinctness'. We fail to realize our unity. We're essentially asleep and dreaming.
 

Shantanu

Well-Known Member
No. Ultimate Reality comprises universal awareness and unity. It's ourselves who have the illusion of 'distinctness'. We fail to realize our unity. We're essentially asleep and dreaming.
:) - Simultaneous oneness and separateness with the Ulitmate Reality is revealed to some.
 
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Shantanu

Well-Known Member
Yes -- but not necessarily intentionally. Neurological short-circuiting is a mechanical phenomenon.
When one is able to predict the future correctly, it means that there has been divine revelation which was imparted intentionally on the part of the Creator/Preserver to the jiva.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
When one is able to predict the future correctly, it means that there has been divine revelation which was imparted intentionally on the part of the Creator/Preserver to the jiva.
This is not what's meant by "Oneness." Oneness is a transcendence of time; a perception of past, present and future simultaneously, as a Gestalt.
 

Shantanu

Well-Known Member
This is not what's meant by "Oneness." Oneness is a transcendence of time; a perception of past, present and future simultaneously, as a Gestalt.
What you are describing seems to be some kind of Brahmanism perhaps as Advaita or Buddhism, which arguably is one of two strands of Vedanta. The other strand of Vedanta does not immerse oneself in Oneness at the cost of living ones life fruitfully according to our dharma (ethical duties and righteous actions). You cannot mix dharma and self indulgent esoteric comprehension of Reality through meditation. The two aspects (dharma and beliefs on what is real) are linked because we have a life to lead. We cannot live one way and believe something else to be the Reality.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
What you are describing seems to be some kind of Brahmanism perhaps as Advaita or Buddhism, which arguably is one of two strands of Vedanta. The other strand of Vedanta does not immerse oneself in Oneness at the cost of living ones life fruitfully according to our dharma (ethical duties and righteous actions). You cannot mix dharma and self indulgent esoteric comprehension of Reality through meditation. The two aspects (dharma and beliefs on what is real) are linked because we have a life to lead. We cannot live one way and believe something else to be the Reality.
Understood, Shantanu, but I'm not recommending householders go out and take vows of sanyas. I thought we were talking about theology or metaphysics, not lifestyles.
Of course one should live in the world he perceives, doing one's own dharma. How could he do otherwise?
 

Shantanu

Well-Known Member
Understood, Shantanu, but I'm not recommending householders go out and take vows of sanyas. I thought we were talking about theology or metaphysics, not lifestyles.
Of course one should live in the world he perceives, doing one's own dharma. How could he do otherwise?
God can come into one's life and guide one into learning and doing things and showing His maya (powers), intelligence and wisdom, protect the individual and when this is all done He can disappear easily leaving the person to fend for himself and living a life free of God-subservience.

The essential question then is does one know the truth or is one deluded in one's knowledge. For a Hindu gyan yogi the objective of life is to be certain of the knowledge that one has.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
God can come into one's life and guide one into learning and doing things and showing His maya (powers), intelligence and wisdom, protect the individual and when this is all done He can disappear easily leaving the person to fend for himself and living a life free of God-subservience.

The essential question then is does one know the truth or is one deluded in one's knowledge. For a Hindu gyan yogi the objective of life is to be certain of the knowledge that one has.
The goal is awareness, not intellectual knowledge.
Theology is all well and good, and it can be fun to argue about angels on the head of a pin or the number of Gods, but the ultimate goal is expanded consciousness; becoming said God, then going beyond it to merge with the Universe.
 

Shantanu

Well-Known Member
The goal is awareness, not intellectual knowledge.
Theology is all well and good, and it can be fun to argue about angels on the head of a pin or the number of Gods, but the ultimate goal is expanded consciousness; becoming said God, then going beyond it to merge with the Universe.
Where did you get the idea that human beings should have that kind of goal, self thought out reason or the from Buddha or from Deepak Chopra perhaps?
 
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Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Where did you get the idea that human beings should have that kind of goal, self thought out reason or the from Buddha or from Deepak Chopra perhaps?
It's been orthodox Hindu philosophy for a thousand years or more. You can find it in all the comparative religions books. it's in Krishna's vishvarupa, it's the whole concept of Brahman.
 

Shantanu

Well-Known Member
It's been orthodox Hindu philosophy for a thousand years or more. You can find it in all the comparative religions books. it's in Krishna's vishvarupa, it's the whole concept of Brahman.
We human beings are just animals with a body to grow and sustain and with a reproductive behaviour that causes evolution. Our only goal is to survive and extend our lives for as long as possible. This is done by having children to look after our needs in old age. The way to survive is to study our environment and know how things work in Nature so that these can be exploited to aid the process of survival. This is why we need to seek the truth and determine the underlying Reality.

Of course when one does that one learns that we humans are guided by another Entity of which we are a part. So we study that Entity and get to know all there is to know about that Entity. All for the purpose of simply surviving for as long as possible. We therefore learn that we are part of the universe. That universe teaches us that the best way to survive for as long as possible is to have the correct dharma. We therefore learn how to live guided by the universe.

And then old age catches up with us and our biological capacity to survive and we die and are returned to the environment.

In essence: we learn that survival with dignity generates the chances of a long and healthy life.

There are no other goals for an orthodox Hindu.
 
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Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
What are you trying to do, derail the thread by bringing evolutionary pragmatism or philosophical naturalism to a theological discussion? The game has rules, you know.

So how does this rational, biological approach square with dharma, or this "entity," which you seem to acknowledge?

Philosophical Hinduism is based in metaphysics, even mysticism. Orthodox schools aren't really so rational or pragmatic.
 

Shantanu

Well-Known Member
So how does this rational, biological approach square with dharma, or this "entity," which you seem to acknowledge?

The Entity can take over the reigns of our mind and body and get us to do things in life that are extraordinary. This override of the human's life gives rise to mental issues for we leave our normal work and do things guided by the Entity by following its directions. The Entity comes across to the individual as being a God, a living Being that has objectives for the individual and perhaps also for society by establishing the dharma for the individual thereby overriding the individual's dharma. The Entity has immense capacity to plants thoughts into the mind of the individual to do things and also to physically alter the individual's actions in order to meet its objectives.
 
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Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So Hinduism = Pragmatism. Our only goal/purpose is survival, and in the mean time there's an intentional, mind-controlling God manipulating us?
That doesn't sound much like Hinduism to me, much less Vedanta.
 

Shantanu

Well-Known Member
So Hinduism = Pragmatism. Our only goal/purpose is survival, and in the mean time there's an intentional, mind-controlling God manipulating us?
That doesn't sound much like Hinduism to me, much less Vedanta.
Hinduism is about a lot of things, including yoga in which one seeks the truth on Reality. If one seeks the truth intensely, God Himself may be stirred to come to the individual and show him everything there is to know, including His capacity to intentionally control the mind of the individual if he or she surrenders his will to God.

Ved-anta means the end to the Vedas. No one can say that the final end of the Vedas has been revealed already and it is there for us to read in the sruti or smriti. So it might be possible that I have determined the real Vedanta after 19 years of yoga through the process of satya-advaita.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Yogas are methods of altering consciousness in a effort to derail its normal perceptiontion of the world.
You bring up advaita, but I don't see how non-dualism squares with this theistic "entity" you're proposing, or the individualism you speak of.
 

Shantanu

Well-Known Member
Yogas are methods of altering consciousness in a effort to derail its normal perceptiontion of the world.
You bring up advaita, but I don't see how non-dualism squares with this theistic "entity" you're proposing, or the individualism you speak of.
I wanted to know if God exists and takes an interest on what happens in humanity so as to influence developments.
 
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