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Featured Does multiculturalism always lead to falsehoods, lies and deceit and is therefore always harmful?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Shantanu, May 6, 2019.

  1. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    No

    Why should gay people be excluded from the self inflicted punishment known as marriage?
     
  2. Shantanu

    Shantanu Well-Known Member

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    Because the only way one can have proper sex as our biology requires is to be hooked up with the opposite sex and that is how a family is created where a child has a mother for milk and nurturing care and a father for comfort and education.
     
  3. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

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    How are gay people supposed to behave then?
     
  4. Shantanu

    Shantanu Well-Known Member

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    What gay people? male's behave like males and females behave like females.
     
  5. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    That's the way it should be as required by biology, yes.

    But humanity is unclean.

    Humans have been having sex other than intended since well before religions were even established.

    Heterosexual anal sex was/is common, masturbation was/is common, these things are not congruent with how biological sex is intended to work (procreation). Yet most if not all of us are guilty of these.

    So that being said what makess heterosexuals different than homosexuals? I don't see a difference. We are just as unclean as they are, and vice versa.

    When a man/woman masturbates it is sexual pleasure without the possiblity of a pregnancy. The same is true for a homosexual couple having sex.

    Imho, yes it is sin (masturbation, sodomy, homosexuality). But regardless of how you split the hairs, we are all guilty of the same exact sin.
     
  6. Shantanu

    Shantanu Well-Known Member

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    It is one thing that we are all guilty of masturbation, sodomy and homosexuality, but to enshrine it in law through marriage legitimises these human conduct: is that a good thing or a bad thing?
     
  7. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    What if this baker came to the conclusion that he shouldn't bake the cake on his own from simply reading the bible? What if the baker's spiritual leader told him that homosexuality is an abomination in the eyes of God and the baker interpreted that to mean he shouldn't bake wedding cakes for a gay wedding? Do we still drag the spiritual leader into court?

    That said, what if there is a law that I feel is unjust and needs to be changed. And I tell my neighbor that I think that the law is unjust and that people shouldn't have to follow it. If my neighbor then chooses to disobey this law that I think is unjust and shouldn't have to be followed, could I then be brought before a judge and charged with somehow causing him to disobey the law?
     
  8. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...

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    Why on earth do you insist on this idea of "falsehoods." One person believes something, and does so honestly, another person believes something else, just as honestly. So the Jews that honour Shabbat on Saturday, and the Christians that honour sabbath on Sunday, can quite easily get together and have lunch on Monday, and spend their time discussing business, their favourite sports teams, newest movies, or even whether the CEO is a jerk or not. As long as they are comfortable within their own belief systems, and don't feel the need to shred the other's, what's the problem?

    Who said "same sex marriage is to be celebrated" by anybody other then the celebrants? Not I...I merely said you need to tolerate it, because as long as you're not in it, it really doesn't have anything at all to do with you. (Or if you think it does, please tell me about the big impact on your life by 2 guys or 2 gals marrying each other.) And whether or not same sex marriage "stands to reason," as you put it, begs the question of "whose reason?" My relationship with my life partner is about the most reasonable thing in my life.....to me. I have no interest at all in what anybody else thinks about it, because none of them has to live it.

    And finally, when you ask "why discriminate against a Muslim if he considers a dog to be too filthy to be allowed into his taxi?" I would counter with, "why allow the Muslim to discriminate against a person who needs their service animal to get through life?" It is not discriminatory at all to not hire the person who can't do whatever it is the job demands. In that case, they are not suited to the job, and everyone would expect them to go and look for the work that they are suitable for, and capable of performing. That's incumbent upon all of us. In other words, don't hire the colour blind guy to decorate your home...you're unlikely to be pleased with the result. But who could object to the colour blind guy heading up a global insurance company (and I actually have an example of this very thing, who I personally know)?
     
  9. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

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    Yes, this is true. How does that disprove the literal existence of gay people, exactly?
    Are you under the impression that sexual orientation is the same as acting “traditionally” masculine/feminine? Because you need to go outside into the real world, if so.
     
  10. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...

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    Why? What about eating meat...or not eating meat? Our evolution makes it possible for us to survive and thrive one way or the other, so how should humans behave on that issue? What about listening to music, and does it matter what kind of music? What about prayer...or not. Is there a right way to pray, is it necessary, to whom should prayer be direct?

    Should you be an artist, or an architect, which is "the right way to behave?" Should you be celibate or father many children, which is "the right way to behave?" Should you be a sports fan, a lover of the arts, or a hard core music groupie, which is "the right way to behave?"

    Do you have some sort of comprehensive list of all of the ways in which "humans should behave?"
     
  11. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...

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    Well now, really, if "we are all guilty" as you say, then if you don't enshrine it in law, then we'll all have to go to jail. And if we're all in jail, who is going to feed us?
     
  12. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    If what you're saying is that you misspoke when you said religious influence shouldn't be a mitigating factor... but rather that in cases where religious influence WAS a mitigating factor, that the religious leaders should be held accountable as well.
     
  13. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    The Baha'i Faith is at best 175 years old. The only thing I see directly changing is the evolving nature of scientific knowledge in the understanding and interpretation of scripture. Beyond this I cannot see the future. The Baha'i Faith will not likely change how humans want it to change.
     
  14. Samantha Rinne

    Samantha Rinne Active Member

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    It depends on whether you define marriage as being for the purpose of raising a family, or for companionship. The very first reference to marriage shows it as not being specifically for family (came later) but for finding company by being joined with your other half.

    While it is assumed here that a man will find a wife, the point is the marriage should not be for legal privileges or assumptions of a happy family, but to be joined with your soulmate. Now, the Bible does have words to say about homosexuality. But it could easily be speaking against prison-style rape.

    How does one lie with a male as with a woman? Anal sex. In fact, when we compare risk factors for disease, anal sex with either sex is very very risky. If you want to do get sex, suck him instead, don't do anal sex.

    Sodomy
    1. intercourse via the anus, committed by a man with a man or woman
    2. bestiality

    And don't rape people, because this was also mentioned in context of Sodom.

    Two willing people who don't have unclean sex, probably okay. Though God prefers lesbians to gays.

    Homosexuality

    Cuz hairy men are ewwww. God loves lesbians.
     
  15. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    No, that is not the meaning nor the context of muli(culture)ism.

    Your not making sense.

    That has nothing to do with multiculturalism.

    For example: The Baha'i spiritual law prohibits homosexual acts, but obedience to the spiritual laws of the Baha'i Faith are the obligation of the Baha'is only. The Baha'i Faith acknowledges the separation of religion and state, and opposes laws limiting the rights of homosexuals in society.

    It is not what you believe that determines your empathy toward those who believe differently and be an advocate of multiculturalism.
     
    #75 shunyadragon, May 6, 2019
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
  16. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    @Shantanu

    From a Baha’i perspective, many of the dominant currents in societies everywhere are pushing people apart, not drawing them together. Although global poverty at the most extreme form has decreased, political and economic systems have enabled the enrichment of small groups with grossly exorbitant wealth. This extreme inequality fuels instability in world affairs.

    The interactions of the individual, governing institutions, and the community as a whole are often fraught, as those arguing for the primacy of one or the other show more and more intransigence in their thinking. Religious fundamentalism is warping the character of communities, even nations. The failings of so many organizations and institutions of society have understandably led to a decline in public trust, but this has been systematically exploited by vested interests seeking to undermine the credibility of all sources of knowledge. Certain shared ethical principles, which seemed to be in the ascendant at the start of this century, are eroded, threatening the prevailing consensus about right and wrong that, in various arenas, had succeeded in holding humanity’s basest tendencies in check. And the will to engage in international collective action, which twenty years ago represented a powerful strain of thinking among world leaders, has been cowed, assailed by resurgent forces of racism, nationalism, and factionalism.

    Thus do the forces of disintegration regroup and gain ground. The voices of discord and chaos threatens to drown out the voices of those noble-minded souls in every society who call for an end to conflict and struggle. As long as that call goes unheeded, there is no reason to doubt that the world’s current state of disorder and confusion will worsen, possibly with catastrophic consequences.

    At some stage as in the twentieth century, humanity will take another significant step, perhaps this time decisive, towards enduring peace.

    Adapted from a letter from the Universal House of Justice 18th January 2019.

    18 January 2019 – To the Bahá’ís of the World | Bahá’í Reference Library
     
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  17. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    An explanation would be helpful. So far, based on your previous posts it pretty much everyone that disagrees with you.
     
  18. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Is religion not part of culture?

    You said the Baha'i faith changes, I'm just wonder to what extent. To the extent of changing some of its core beliefs for the sake of unity.

    I suppose I don't understand what is meant by Baha'i unity. In a world full of diverse beliefs, moral values, religions, where is the unity?
     
  19. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    Multiculturalism only works when there is mutual respect, synergy, and shared values. Otherwise it's like mixing water and oil.
     
  20. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Yep.
     
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