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Does Jesus literally transmute, into the Abba, after ascencion, or, does Jesus, maintain as Jesus?

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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Does Jesus literally transmute, into the Abba, after ascencion, or, does Jesus, maintain separate form, in other words, separate from the Abba, when Jesus is in Spirit form?

I believe, that both ideas, can be argued. Note
Revelation 1:6
John 1:10
As example verses, regarding this concept.
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Disciple of Jesus said:
Does Jesus literally transmute, into the Abba, after ascencion, or, does Jesus, maintain separate form, in other words, separate from the Abba, when Jesus is in Spirit form?

I believe, that both ideas, can be argued. Note
Revelation 1:6
John 1:10
As example verses, regarding this concept.
Click to expand...
I think you must be interpreting these verses differently than I am. I see nothing in either one which implies that Jesus will ever become "the Father." Also, I'm not sure if I understand your reference to "when Jesus is in Spirit form." I believe that Jesus was physically resurrected and stands today at His Father's right side. Acts 7:56 states, "And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God." Of course, that does raise another question. If the Father has no form, how can Jesus be described as standing anywhere relative to His Father?
 
D

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Katzpur said:
I think you must be interpreting these verses differently than I am. I see nothing in either one which implies that Jesus will ever become "the Father." Also, I'm not sure if I understand your reference to "when Jesus is in Spirit form." I believe that Jesus was physically resurrected and stands today at His Father's right side. Acts 7:56 states, "And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God." Of course, that does raise another question. If the Father has no form, how can Jesus be described as standing anywhere relative to His Father?
Click to expand...
I don't get my theology from these verses, however, they are in standard Bibles.
John 1:10
Does denote, as do other verses, Jesus's oneness, with the Abba.
Revelation 1:6
And similar verses, may separate, Jesus, sometimes, seemingly called 'god', from the Abba.

Now, Spirit form, to me, means the form, after ascencion, per the text.
•
Aside from interpretive verses, I don't believe that the 'Abba', has no form.
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Disciple of Jesus said:
I don't get my theology from these verses, however, they are in standard Bibles.
John 1:10
Does denote, as do other verses, Jesus's oneness, with the Abba.
Revelation 1:6
And similar verses, may separate, Jesus, sometimes, seemingly called 'god', from the Abba.

Now, Spirit form, to me, means the form, after ascencion, per the text.
•
Aside from interpretive verses, I don't believe that the 'Abba', has no form.
Click to expand...
I believe that the Father and the Son are physically distinct from each other, but that their unity (or "oneness") is of will, purpose, mind and heart. The Bible contains many usages of the word "one" to mean "united" and not as a reference to the numeral '1'. I also believe even though the Son can rightly be addressed as "God" (see Hebrews 1:8 which states, "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."), He holds a subordinate position to the Father (see John 20:17, which says, "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

I'm confused as to what you believe the Father's form is, since you apparently do believe He has a form.
 
D

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Katzpur said:
I'm confused as to what you believe the Father's form is, since you apparently do believe He has a form.
Click to expand...



The Abba's form is similar to that of the angels, they are all described, in the Bible. I actually believe, that the Abba, has more than one form, however, that is the main form by which we delineate Him.
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Disciple of Jesus said:
The Abba's form is similar to that of the angels, they are all decribed, in the Bible. I actually believe, that the Abba, has more than one form, however, that is the main form by which we delineate Him.
Click to expand...
Well, the angels are always described as looking essentially human.
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Disciple of Jesus said:
Do you believe that the Abba, has no form?
Click to expand...
No, I believe that He does have a form and that it is exactly like that of His Son's, in other words, it appears to be human. That is not to say that He is mortal like us, because I don't believe He is. But I do believe we were created in His image, and therefore that we look like Him and He looks like us.
 
D

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Katzpur said:
No, I believe that He does have a form and that it is exactly like that of His Son's, in other words, it appears to be human. That is not to say that He is mortal like us, because I don't believe He is. But I do believe we were created in His image, and therefore that we look like Him and He looks like us.
Click to expand...
Then I'm not sure, what you were confused, about. The 'Abba', presumably meaning the God described in the Bible, is described, as are the angels.
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Disciple of Jesus said:
I believe that the Abba, has form[s, yet isn't limited, by form. Thusly, is both form, and formless.
Click to expand...
I don't believe that He is limited by form. After all, during the thirty-three or so years Jesus walked the earth, He had a form and yet there was nothing He was not able to do, even with a physical form. It doesn't really make sense to me that something can be two contradictory things, i.e. form and formless.
 
D

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Conceiving of God, we would conceive of Him, as formless, ie that is the aspect that we presumably, would be associating Him, with. That doesn't mean, that He doesn't have form[s.
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Disciple of Jesus said:
Conceiving of God, we would conceive of Him, as formless, ie that is the aspect that we presumably, would be associating Him, with. That doesn't mean, that He doesn't have form[s.
Click to expand...
Okay, well that's an interesting perspective to me. I conceive of Him as definitely having a form and that form as being that of a person, but I'm sure I'm among a small minority of Christians who believe that way.
 
D

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Katzpur said:
Okay, well that's an interesting perspective to me. I conceive of Him as definitely having a form and that form as being that of a person, but I'm sure I'm among a small minority of Christians who believe that way.
Click to expand...
Formless means "necessary formless", or form never observed. Note verses like John 1:18

In other words, that isn't what I'm talking about, Im talking about not limited by form, or even one form.
 
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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Now, God, as all around, including, Jesus, and the Abba, this may be "unperceived", in a manner. Jesus, being one with the Abba, ie Jesus in Yisrael, could be the god, that isn't perceived.

However, John 1:18

Clearly, does not match, the Christian Biblical belief, concerning, presumably, the Abba, specifically. At least not the common idea if 'who', the Abba, is.
 
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