1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Does Jesus have any limitation?

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions DIR' started by Unes, Dec 24, 2006.

  1. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    27,871
    Ratings:
    +4,350
    Religion:
    LDS Christian
    That's a good explanation if you believe in fate. I see it more as a case of God giving each of us a roadmap and telling us to follow it. He's not going to make us follow it, but He knows each of us well enough to be able to predict which ones of us will and which ones of us won't.
     
  2. xexon

    xexon Destroyer of Worlds

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Messages:
    880
    Ratings:
    +113
    For me, fate is past and present karma at work.

    x
     
  3. JayHawes

    JayHawes Active Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Messages:
    946
    Ratings:
    +32
    When Jesus was a man he had limitations. But when he rose he rose with all power in his hands, he is not limited, he become, fully God.
     
  4. Scott C.

    Scott C. A Mormon Guy

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    2,649
    Ratings:
    +514
    Religion:
    Latter-day Saint
    I believe Jesus knows our future because He sees it, as if it were happening now. If I observe you eating cake at this moment, and write down that at 6:24am Sunday you were eating , and the next day you read what I wrote, and say, hey how did you know that? and didn't that take away my free will?, I'd say, how so? I didn't do anything more than observe what you were doing at the time. If God observes the future as if it were present, there is no problem here.
     
  5. Unes

    Unes Active Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2005
    Messages:
    278
    Ratings:
    +22
    First of all let me express that I do not believe in Man-Like God. I can not label the REVEALED deficiencies in those belief systems as the paradoxes. But, this is an issue outside of the scope of the present discussion.

    The suggested argument opposing the fatalistic view is a very clever argument. Now, let us examine it more closely and digest what does it mean, and what is the ramification of such an idea. Here it is suggested that God does not predict our choices, rather than he benignly observes our choices, because the element of time does not apply to God. Of course, we have to accept that time does not limit God‘s knowledge. This suggestion sounds fine.

    Now, by accepting that God has the full knowledge of all the events of this universe all the time, and this ‘all the time’ also includes at the dawn of the Creation. In this view the God who predicts our thoughts and the God who is a Benign Observer of our thoughts they become indistinguishable from each other, and they become exactly the same God, otherwise God loses a capability. Secondly, this benign God does not satisfies our sense of the Interactive God who is answering our prayers all the time. A Benign God might as well be a Dead God, and this notion defies the existence of God altogether. Thirdly, here we are assuming that all the events of this Universe are known to God in some form all the time, this known knowledge even if it is in the mind of God makes all the events of this Universe a static Universe. As you mentioned in the other thread, in this view the events of this Universe are known to God like a movie which God knows all its details. The characters in our movies even though they exactly behave like our ordinary lives, they are all confined to the exact story line of the movies without any deviation. The actions, the words, and the motions are all sealed, and they do not change. Again, this argument leads us to the same old fatalistic contradiction. In our fatalistic argument, we claim that God predicts our thoughts, but we never can prove that God necessarily forces us to our fates, this is our logic which draws such contradictory conclusion about our ‘Free Wills’. This is a paradox in our logic.

    Paradoxes are irresolvable traps in our logics. The paradoxes do not necessarily mean that they are right; that means our logic needs to devise some other techniques to avoid these nagging contradictory issues. Paradoxes are the anomalies in our logical approaches, and they also happen in our mathematics and in our theoretical physics. Science constantly is devising new approaches to AVOID these complex paradoxes.

    We can also blame these paradoxes on the deficiencies of our Intelligence. Earlier Man had problem digesting the flat Earth, as a result of our improved knowledge about Earth our Intelligence improved too, and that puzzle was resolved very logically. Here, we may also reason; even though we sense the necessity of the Creator for the extreme FAVORABLE structure of this universe, and we sometimes sense the interaction of that Mighty Power in our daily lives, but our Intelligence have not matured enough to digest and to resolve the paradoxes of believing in the existence of such Creator.

    May God Bless us All,
    Unes
     
  6. Random

    Random Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    5,063
    Ratings:
    +699
    And future Karma too, things we will do but have not yet done...;)
     
  7. Scott C.

    Scott C. A Mormon Guy

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    2,649
    Ratings:
    +514
    Religion:
    Latter-day Saint
    Wow. I'm going to have to read that response several times to make sure I digest it correctly. Does God, who sees the future as if it were present, have to be a benign God? Why can He not still be interactive in our lives? And, I will admit, that I don't actually have any idea how God knows the future. I can speculate with theories, but I suspect my human intelligence is not nearly adequate to comprehend the answer.
     
  8. Luke_17:2

    Luke_17:2 Fundamental Bible-thumper

    Joined:
    May 5, 2007
    Messages:
    333
    Ratings:
    +16
    Jesus, the man in the flesh, derived all His power from the Father, and therefore has limitation. Jesus, as God, has none.

    At least that's how I understand it.
     
  9. Unes

    Unes Active Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2005
    Messages:
    278
    Ratings:
    +22
    Dear Scotty,
    The concept of the Benign God is one of the assumptions and the requirements for our ‘Free Will’. The concept of the Interactive God totally contradicts the notion of our ‘Free Will’; because the Interactive God not only sometimes answers our prayers but he also imposes and intervenes in our life affairs without we asking for it. The phrase of ‘God works in mysterious ways’ is founded based on such experiences.

    These visions about the characteristics of the Interactive God are in the heart of the fatalistic argument, which in my view is a paradox within the comprehension of our human logic at this point.


    May God Bless us All,
     
  10. Scott C.

    Scott C. A Mormon Guy

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    2,649
    Ratings:
    +514
    Religion:
    Latter-day Saint
    OK, so since God is interactive in our lives, this means we do not have complete control over what happens to us. But, do we not still have control over how we respond to what life gives us? Is that not free will?
     
Loading...