I don't know if I'd ever have the guts to do it, but I do see a certain appeal to Robert G. Ingersoll's approach: he would respond to "I'll pray for you" with "I forgive you."
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Does it Matter?
- Thread starter SalixIncendium
- Start date
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- prayer
Why?
WalterTrull
Godfella
Prayer is still a bit of an enigma for me. I really, really wish it weren’t. “Thy will be done in earth” Doesn’t say anything about religions or beliefs. I know that we actually pray continuously because ours is not the power. But… things happen that we want to happen (more or less), so we are in some manner praying for those things to happen. I call it faith, but most on the forum seem to disagree with that definition (from past responses). Whatever the thought structure we come up with (religions, drugs, voodoo, etc.) hey, whatever works. The power is the same, faith works the same way, whatever. Hopefully I’ll learn how to work this thing. Still staring at the buttons and knobs right now.
Even that doesn't bother me.
They want me to change in a way they believe to be better? Meh...
If they express it with good intent, it's rather amusing.
When someone offers to pray for me, I usually thank them and ask them not to waste their time. I respect the good wishes.
The answer for me to that question is that all good is from God. Thus any good we do for the good of all others, wells from the same source.
There is healing and help to be found in thoughts and actions motivated to help others.
Regards Tony
Erebus
Well-Known Member
To my mind it's akin to saying, "I hope things get better for you."
wandering peacefully
Which way to the woods?
As others have stated I would not mind others saying they will pray for me if I am I'll or having a hard time. Although, the people I know well enough to say that to me probably wouldn't knowing I don't believe in such things. But if they do, I know it is something that makes them feel better and I wouldn't take that away from them. Praying for my soul is a whole different matter.
I don’t have much of a problem with it if it’s genuine. A conversation between 2 scientists in the movie The Martian goes:
Mitch: “Do you believe in God!”
Vincent: My father was a Hindu, my mother’s a Baptist; I believe in several.
Mitch: We’ll take all the help we can get.
What I do have a problem with is hearing “turn to Jesus”, “let Jesus take your burdens”, “put your trust in Jesus” and that sort of thing. I see it a lot in a particular men’s group I belong to.
Mitch: “Do you believe in God!”
Vincent: My father was a Hindu, my mother’s a Baptist; I believe in several.
Mitch: We’ll take all the help we can get.
What I do have a problem with is hearing “turn to Jesus”, “let Jesus take your burdens”, “put your trust in Jesus” and that sort of thing. I see it a lot in a particular men’s group I belong to.
ManSinha
Well-Known Member
There are some views out there about the power of prayer - and of course the more individuals doing that - the greater the statistical chance that one or several of them are doing it with faith and meaning to help - I have a couple of interesting anecdotes that I have heard about faith coming from those that do not subscribe to the particular religion in question ......
In other words - Yes - unequivocally so
In other words - Yes - unequivocally so
I would be happy if someone was concerned enough they wanted to assist through prayers. It doesn't matter at all what faith they are.
What if they wanted to pray for you as an expression of their love? Do you reject that expression because you think it's about themselves, and not you? Isn't that cynical?
Only time it bothers me is when it's an obvious blow off:
Them: "Oh hello! How are you"?
You: "Well, tbh, not so great. You see, my entire family suddenly came down all at once with a freak mutant strain of the bubonic plague five minutes after the local ambulance drivers union called a strike, and when I went to drive them to a hospital, a meteor suddenly fell from the sky right on my car. Only thing left was the glove compartment with an envelope containing my latest car insurance payment, which I forgot to put in the mail. . .
Them: Oh dear, how awful! I'll pray for you! Well [now that I've done everything humanly possible] I have to go. You take care. . .
Them: "Oh hello! How are you"?
You: "Well, tbh, not so great. You see, my entire family suddenly came down all at once with a freak mutant strain of the bubonic plague five minutes after the local ambulance drivers union called a strike, and when I went to drive them to a hospital, a meteor suddenly fell from the sky right on my car. Only thing left was the glove compartment with an envelope containing my latest car insurance payment, which I forgot to put in the mail. . .
Them: Oh dear, how awful! I'll pray for you! Well [now that I've done everything humanly possible] I have to go. You take care. . .
dfnj
Well-Known Member
If you believe in the many-worlds interpretation in quantum mechanics then maybe prayer does work in the same way anyone making a decision creates a possible alternate time-line.
Many-worlds interpretation - Wikipedia
"The existence of the other worlds makes it possible to remove randomness and action at a distance from quantum theory and thus from all physics. Many-worlds implies that all possible alternate histories and futures are real, each representing an actual "world" (or "universe"). "
Maybe each of us has the ability to jump the time-line we are in. The further the jump then the greater the effort that is required to get there from the present reality.
Many-worlds interpretation - Wikipedia
"The existence of the other worlds makes it possible to remove randomness and action at a distance from quantum theory and thus from all physics. Many-worlds implies that all possible alternate histories and futures are real, each representing an actual "world" (or "universe"). "
Maybe each of us has the ability to jump the time-line we are in. The further the jump then the greater the effort that is required to get there from the present reality.
People who know and love me know that wasting their time praying for someone's health or wellbeing is not an expression love but an expression of selfishness and procrastination.
exchemist
Veteran Member
This is just more quantum woo. If you want to apply science to prayer, the first point to address is the lack of objective evidence for the efficacy of prayer, apart from the placebo effect.
It seems to me the only value of prayer is to help oneself to achieve a good mental state to cope with whatever problems beset us. Praying for others is a nice gesture of solidarity but no more than that, and can sometimes represent a seemingly virtuous, but cost-free, cop-out to avoid actually helping deal with the problem in a practical way.
When my wife was dying, various people at church offered to pray for her. I thanked them but told them it was better to ask for strength to deal with the inevitable than indulge false [and superstitious] hopes of a miracle. In retrospect, the most helpful ones tended not to be those that had told me they were praying for her.
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stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Wonderful question
Once I had hepatitis and was very sick. I met a man who believed that fasting can cure everything, just eating fruits. And I knew a man who was doing something called Sanjeevani, something like doing prayers and then some sugar pills get supercharged. The fruit fanatic told me, this man doing Sanjeevani can't be good, he eats meat and drinks alcohol (meat eating for the yogi was worst of all).
The moment this "kind of yogi (eating only 1 meal per day, just fruits/nuts)" judged this other man, I got the feeling "I am sure I will be cured, just to teach this yogi the lesson not to judge". So I went to this meat eating `alcoholic` got his sugar-pills charged with his prayers, took the pills and within 1 or 2 days or so, I was completely cured from hepatitis. Wonderful lesson. I went to the hospital and even the anti-bodies were gone, doctors were quite surprised. I was just very grateful and happy.
So, in my experience, it does not matter who does the prayer
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I used to have wheat allergy. Going to a Christian Church where they had this bread/wine (1gram bread only) ceremony. I thought "now I take my chance ... if Jesus is all powerful, I won't get sick". I ended up in hospital for 2 weeks. Big disappointment in Jesus at that moment
Few weeks after I got healthy, I was in the ashram of Sai Baba, and Sai Baba gave me a plate full of bread to eat. I was still mad at Jesus (for making me sick by eating his bread), so I thought "Okay, I will eat all of it, and if I die I am fine with it, I have had it with all my sicknesses". I finished the whole plate of bread (at least 200 gr I think) and nothing happened, I did not get sick. Then I thought, well Sai Baba I trust much better than Jesus.
My female neighbor broke her back when falling from a horse. There was a Christian praying ceremony and I told her "you better go there, you might get cured". Though she was Christian (me not), she could not believe her broken back could be cured. But I kept pressing her for 3 weeks and finally she gave in, we went, she was the first one who got called on stage. Prayers were done, next morning I saw her lifting 25 kg heavy stones in her garden (quite heavy for this 1,50m small woman), a remarkable cure. Jesus made up for my previous bad experience.
And I learned the lesson to accept whatever is granted, be it "getting sick by Jesus' blessings" or "getting cured by Jesus' blessings". But personally I stick to Sai Baba for cures. But Christians I will send to Christian healers. But I believe that healing can always occur, whoever prayers for whoever. Personally, out of respect of their belief (being not believing), I would not pray for atheists, unless they would ask me.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
My Religion "the Religion of Love" qualifies all Religions to pray for me. Also fine If humanists, atheists etc. "wish me best", which is kind of a prayer, is okay