Does it matter if Jesus isn't god?

[Unveiled Artist]

I couldn't find this in the search. I am dead serious. Simple question.

Does it matter if Jesus is not god?​

This is my position: Jesus is not god. Does it matter? No. I won't get into why. Ya'll probably know why from me already. So, I won't debate my position.

Just a simple answer and support. Does it matter if Jesus is not god?

If you don't like If questions: Jesus is god and does it matter? Why?​

I don't want to know if Jesus is god or not. I already accepted what I know and studied. I just want to know does it matter if he is not.

Audience: Christians who believe Jesus is god. If you use scripture, add commentary. However, don't use scripture to prove he is god; I know and understand your position.

What would happen if Jesus was not god? If a human saved humanity from their sins? Is it possible? Why or why not?​

I would have put this in Interfaith; but, topics like this are treated as debates even though to a lot of us who pose similar questions, we do not want it to be so. Please be civilized and unique in your answers.

 

[idav]

For Catholics the nature of the trinity is said to be one of the Mysteries.

I don't think it should really matter because they are debating the mechanics of how god works with humans. Believing that god can work through us is more important than how it works.

I doubt there will be a theological test to pass with an 80 or better to get into heaven.

Conflicting denominations sometimes think it is a big deal not to worship a false god but I am of the mind that worshiping a human as the god is false.

It is more about our intentions and what is in the heart, not so much what we think is true. "You will know them by their fruits"

 

[Unveiled Artist]

For Catholics the nature of the trinity is said to be one of the Mysteries.

I don't think it should really matter because they are debating the mechanics of how god works with humans. Believing that god can work through us is more important than how it works.

I doubt there will be a theological test to pass with an 80 or better to get into heaven.

Conflicting denominations sometimes think it is a big deal not to worship a false god but I am of the mind that worshiping a human as the god is false.

It is more about our intentions and what is in the heart, not so much what we think is true. "You will know them by their fruits"

I guess if Jesus were seen as a human, than worship would change into reverence or even friendship as the apostles where friends (or brothers) to Jesus?

Do you think there is an advantage (for lack of better words) to worship Jesus as god rather than be a brother to Jesus as a human because he is the son of god and savior and son of man?

 

[arthra]

What would happen if Jesus was not god? If a human saved humanity from their sins? Is it possible? Why or why not? I would have put this in Interfaith; but, topics like this are treated as debates even though to a lot of us who pose similar questions, we do not want it to be so. Please be civilized and unique in your answers.

Baha'is believe Jesus perfectly reflected the attributes of God and that He was a Mediator between God and humanity:

"Therefore, men have always been taught and led by the Prophets of God. The Prophets of God are the Mediators of God. All the Prophets and Messengers have come from One Holy Spirit and bear the Message of God, fitted to the age in which they appear. The One Light is in them and they are One with each other. But the Eternal does not become phenomenal; neither can the phenomenal become Eternal."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 24


:

 

[Katzpur]

I couldn't find this in the search. I am dead serious. Simple question.

​

Does it matter if Jesus is not god?

Yes, it matters to me.

If you don't like If questions: Jesus is god and does it matter? Why?

I don't believe He would have the power to redeem us if He were just another one of us. But just to be perfectly clear, I definitely don't believe He is the same individual as His own Father. I believe He is God's (i.e. the Father's) Son, and that He is subordinate to Him in rank, but that He is equal to Him in the qualities that define godhood.

What would happen if Jesus was not god? If a human saved humanity from their sins? Is it possible? Why or why not?

I don't think He could, and here's why...

I believe that God has a zero-tolerance policy towards sin and that it is impossible for us to return to God's presence if we bear any guilt for any sin we have committed. Since we are all merely human and have therefore sinned, we are incapable of making ourselves perfect in God's eyes (i.e. completely free from sin). Jesus Christ, on the other hand, is perfect and completely without sin. He is therefore in a position to pay for my sins and have perfection left over to pay for yours, and so on and so forth.

Imagine that you are young and single. You meet a guy and he is perfect. He is exactly the man you had always hoped to meet. The two of you fall in love and he asks you to marry him. Of course you say, "yes." And then you start talking about the life you'll make together. You talk about how you'll share everything, and about how there will be no more "yours" or "mine"; there will only be "ours." This means, among other things, that you will open a joint bank account. Oh, there's one thing I neglected to mention. You are not only young and single, but deeply in debt -- to the tune of $1 million. Your fiancé, on the other hand, is wealthy -- I mean very wealthy. He is worth more money than you can possibly even conceive of. What does this mean to you in terms of your future financial security? From the moment the two of you say, "I do" and sign on the dotted line for that joint account, you are debt free. As long as you are true and faithful to him, your debt becomes his and his ability to pay it off becomes yours.

I believe we entered into a covenant much like this when we were baptized (being old enough to understand what we were doing). We agreed to love our Savior, our Benefactor, forever, and to always do our best to live in a way that would please Him. He agreed to lead us back home to our Father in Heaven, clean and pure. Immediately upon our receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, this new partnership was sealed, and it will remain binding unless we choose to break the terms of the covenant. This partnership resulted in each one of us becoming a "new creature." Because Christ's "assets," so to speak, are infinite, that is without end, no matter how great our "liabilities," we became "perfect in Christ." We two became one. And as in a marriage, we even agreed to take our partner's name upon ourselves.

Here's how an LDS scholar explains it:

If Christ is infinite and unlimited, but I am finite and limited, and we become one, what do Christ and I together add up to? What is the sum of an infinite, positive quantity and a limited, negative quantity (∞ + -x)? Why, infinity, of course! And the math is the same whether I (the finite part) am a ten or a five or a one.... Infinity plus any amount, positive or negative, equals infinity.

​

That may be a whole lot of talk to explain why I believe that only someone who was absolutely perfect could save someone who was not. And I don't believe that anyone could be perfect except for God the Father or His Son.

​

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes, it matters to me.

I don't believe He would have the power to redeem us if He were just another one of us. But just to be perfectly clear, I definitely don't believe He is the same individual as His own Father. I believe He is God's (i.e. the Father's) Son, and that He is subordinate to Him in rank, but that He is equal to Him in the qualities that define godhood.

I don't think He could, and here's why...

I believe that God has a zero-tolerance policy towards sin and that it is impossible for us to return to God's presence if we bear any guilt for any sin we have committed. Since we are all merely human and have therefore sinned, we are incapable of making ourselves perfect in God's eyes (i.e. completely free from sin). Jesus Christ, on the other hand, is perfect and completely without sin. He is therefore in a position to pay for my sins and have perfection left over to pay for yours, and so on and so forth.

Imagine that you are young and single. You meet a guy and he is perfect. He is exactly the man you had always hoped to meet. The two of you fall in love and he asks you to marry him. Of course you say, "yes." And then you start talking about the life you'll make together. You talk about how you'll share everything, and about how there will be no more "yours" or "mine"; there will only be "ours." This means, among other things, that you will open a joint bank account. Oh, there's one thing I neglected to mention. You are not only young and single, but deeply in debt -- to the tune of $1 million. Your fiancé, on the other hand, is wealthy -- I mean very wealthy. He is worth more money than you can possibly even conceive of. What does this mean to you in terms of your future financial security? From the moment the two of you say, "I do" and sign on the dotted line for that joint account, you are debt free. As long as you are true and faithful to him, your debt becomes his and his ability to pay it off becomes yours.

I believe we entered into a covenant much like this when we were baptized (being old enough to understand what we were doing). We agreed to love our Savior, our Benefactor, forever, and to always do our best to live in a way that would please Him. He agreed to lead us back home to our Father in Heaven, clean and pure. Immediately upon our receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, this new partnership was sealed, and it will remain binding unless we choose to break the terms of the covenant. This partnership resulted in each one of us becoming a "new creature." Because Christ's "assets," so to speak, are infinite, that is without end, no matter how great our "liabilities," we became "perfect in Christ." We two became one. And as in a marriage, we even agreed to take our partner's name upon ourselves.

Here's how an LDS scholar explains it:

If Christ is infinite and unlimited, but I am finite and limited, and we become one, what do Christ and I together add up to? What is the sum of an infinite, positive quantity and a limited, negative quantity (∞ + -x)? Why, infinity, of course! And the math is the same whether I (the finite part) am a ten or a five or a one.... Infinity plus any amount, positive or negative, equals infinity.
​

That may be a whole lot of talk to explain why I believe that only someone who was absolutely perfect could save someone who was not. And I don't believe that anyone could be perfect except for God the Father or His Son.

​

That's okay. I like substance and talk than one sentence answers, to put it bluntly. It's kind of late, so I will re-read your post tomorrow. Couple of questions, though. If god created a perfect human, then even though he is not god he would not be side by side with humans because he cannot sin. Therefore, he can still die for humanity.

Is a human defined by his sinful nature?

Jesus can't be fully human if humans are defined by their sinful nature. If humans aren't define that way, his being a perfect human wouldn't change anything?

I was trying to read your post and find the answers but I couldn't extract them.

I un-red your post because it is bright. In my view (just my opinion) and relating to your comment, I'd think it is better for him to be human. I can't relate to a god because god is perfect. However, I can relate to jesus, because Jesus is human and a medium and son to god, I would be able to relate to him. By doing so, die in him because he is flesh and so am I. So it's a perfect marriage (lack of better analogy).

If he were perfect (even though he says only his father is) then I'd be like many Christians who humble themselves to try to be one with jesus to be one with god. However, when Jesus becomes a medium and human and is in the likeness of god (just as Moses etc), then his sin cleansed automatically by his birth and relationship with his father. If anything, he wouldn't have sin because in order to be a sinner, you'd have to sin first. He never did. We would be "perfect" if we were not introduced to sin either.

Hmm. I wouldn't think him being human would make him equal to us. It would just mean that he is a human like Moses and Abraham, chosen for his mission, perfect, and savior. Not everyone gets that job position. I think that saying "if he was human" is making people think if Jesus was a sinner. That's not the case. If Jesus were not god that wouldn't make him a sinner.

My thoughts.

 

[idav]

I guess if Jesus were seen as a human, than worship would change into reverence or even friendship as the apostles where friends (or brothers) to Jesus?

Do you think there is an advantage (for lack of better words) to worship Jesus as god rather than be a brother to Jesus as a human because he is the son of god and savior and son of man?

I see a disadvantage in that Christianity claims exclusive access to god through jesus.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I see a disadvantage in that Christianity claims exclusive access to god through jesus.

I'd say they still have the same avenue to god. Would a christian turn down Jesus if god made a perfect human to be a medium between god and man?

 

[wizanda]

Does it matter if Jesus is not god?

For Christianity to work as Paul states, he has to be divine; else it would be human sacrifice, and thus not atoning, because it defiles the Law (Torah).

 

[Losin]

God becoming human shows us that we are not his servants, but rather that he is giving himself completely to this world.

 

[idav]

I'd say they still have the same avenue to god. Would a christian turn down Jesus if god made a perfect human to be a medium between god and man?

The eastern religions might not have an issue, some think jesus the 9th or 11th avatar depending who you ask.

 

[Vouthon]

I see a disadvantage in that Christianity claims exclusive access to god through jesus.

Not quite, it depends on the denomination and soteriology adhered too. Calvinism, for instance, is very exclusivist in its theological orientation. Calvinists contend that saving grace is offered only to the predestined elect and that Christ's sacrifice on the cross was for the sins of the elect alone, not on behalf of the entire human race. Yet they are a minority among the Christian fold.

It is more a case for Catholics that we claim to have received an exclusive revelation of God in the Person of His Son (and the sacraments He instituted to make this revelation efficacious), than it is one of exclusive access to Him - at least as far as the Catholic stance is concerned.

You see, prevenient divine grace (sufficient for salvation) is believed by us to be freely offered to all people, irrespective of their religious beliefs or socio-cultural condition. In addition to this, the Holy Spirit - the Third Person of the Trinity - is universally present in the souls of all human beings:

"...The universality of salvation means that it is granted not only to those who explicitly believe in Christ and have entered the Church. Since salvation is offered to all, it must be made concretely available to all. But it is clear that today, as in the past, many people do not have an opportunity to come to know or accept the gospel revelation or to enter the Church. The social and cultural conditions in which they live do not permit this, and frequently they have been brought up in other religious traditions. For such people salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his Sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit. It enables each person to attain salvation through his or her free cooperation..."

- Pope St. John Paul II, Redemptoris Missio (1990)


"...Every quest of the human spirit for truth and goodness, and in the last analysis for God, is inspired by the Holy Spirit. The various religions arose precisely from this primordial human openness to God. At their origins we often find founders who, with the help of God's Spirit, achieved a deeper religious experience. Handed on to others, this experience took form in the doctrines, rites and precepts of the various religions. In every authentic religious experience, the most characteristic expression is prayer. Because of the human spirit's constitutive openness to God's action of urging it to self-transcendence, we can hold that "every authentic prayer is called forth by the Holy Spirit, who is mysteriously present in the heart of every person". We experienced an eloquent manifestation of this truth at the World Day of Prayer for Peace on 27 October 1986 in Assisi, and on other similar occasions of great spiritual intensity. The Holy Spirit is not only present in other religions through authentic expressions of prayer. "The Spirit's presence and activity", as I wrote in the Encyclical Letter Redemptoris missio, "affect not only individuals but also society and history, peoples, cultures and religions...

This doctrine leads us to affirm that, though the routes taken may be different, “there is but a single goal to which is directed the deepest aspiration of the human spirit as expressed in its quest for God and also in its quest, through its tending towards God, for the full dimension of its humanity, or in other words, for the full meaning of human life” (Redemptor hominis, n. 11)....

Indeed, as the Second Vatican Council teaches, “since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of coming into contact, in a way known to God, with the paschal mystery” (Gaudium et spes, n. 22).

This possibility is achieved through sincere, inward adherence to the Truth, generous self-giving to one’s neighbour and the search for the Absolute inspired by the Spirit of God. A ray of the divine Wisdom is also shown through the fulfilment of the precepts and practices that conform to the moral law and to authentic religious sense..."

- Pope St. John Paul II, General Audience Address, September 16, 1998, Vatican​

 

[GoodbyeDave]

If Jesus were God, it would matter a great deal, as his teaching would be the only public pronouncements of the Supreme Being. Muslims can claim that God wrote the Quran, but they only have the Quran itself as evidence for that. Jesus taught publicly and we have his words recorded by people who heard them.

If Jesus is not God, it is equally important, as then there is no more reason to accept his teaching than that of the Buddha or Guru Nanak.

 

[jeager106]

"
John 3:16King James Version (KJV)
16 " For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. "

It's hard to argue with that passage isn't it?

"only begotten Son" Born of Mary, a human female without help from a mortal man.
Immaculate reception.
Oh! conception.

The immaculate REception was a "catch" that may not have been a catch that won
a title game for the Steelers.
But I digress.................................................

 

[Sabour]

I couldn't find this in the search. I am dead serious. Simple question.

Does it matter if Jesus is not god?​

This is my position: Jesus is not god. Does it matter? No. I won't get into why. Ya'll probably know why from me already. So, I won't debate my position.

Just a simple answer and support. Does it matter if Jesus is not god?

If you don't like If questions: Jesus is god and does it matter? Why?​

I don't want to know if Jesus is god or not. I already accepted what I know and studied. I just want to know does it matter if he is not.

Audience: Christians who believe Jesus is god. If you use scripture, add commentary. However, don't use scripture to prove he is god; I know and understand your position.

What would happen if Jesus was not god? If a human saved humanity from their sins? Is it possible? Why or why not?​

I would have put this in Interfaith; but, topics like this are treated as debates even though to a lot of us who pose similar questions, we do not want it to be so. Please be civilized and unique in your answers.

who you believe he was may lead you to consider other things

 

[Unveiled Artist]

who you believe he was may lead you to consider other things

I read this a couple of times, can you rephrase?

Who do I believed Jesus was lead by for me to consider what I posted? I don't understand.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

If Jesus were God, it would matter a great deal, as his teaching would be the only public pronouncements of the Supreme Being. Muslims can claim that God wrote the Quran, but they only have the Quran itself as evidence for that. Jesus taught publicly and we have his words recorded by people who heard them.

If Jesus is not God, it is equally important, as then there is no more reason to accept his teaching than that of the Buddha or Guru Nanak.

The Buddha, Guru, and Mahammad's teachings would be just as valuable words from their Creators (etc) as if they said they where the Creator. I wouldn't think it would be different given it was the creator that sent or worked through them rather than themselves. You think?

 

[Sabour]

I read this a couple of times, can you rephrase?

Who do I believed Jesus was lead by for me to consider what I posted? I don't understand.

I meant if you believe that Jesus peace be upon him isn't god, this may mean that you need to examine some other claims. For like if you thought he was a prophet, maybe you should look into Islam for instance

 

[Sonofason]

I couldn't find this in the search. I am dead serious. Simple question.

Does it matter if Jesus is not god?​

This is my position: Jesus is not god. Does it matter? No. I won't get into why. Ya'll probably know why from me already. So, I won't debate my position.

Just a simple answer and support. Does it matter if Jesus is not god?

If you don't like If questions: Jesus is god and does it matter? Why?​

I don't want to know if Jesus is god or not. I already accepted what I know and studied. I just want to know does it matter if he is not.

Audience: Christians who believe Jesus is god. If you use scripture, add commentary. However, don't use scripture to prove he is god; I know and understand your position.

What would happen if Jesus was not god? If a human saved humanity from their sins? Is it possible? Why or why not?​

I would have put this in Interfaith; but, topics like this are treated as debates even though to a lot of us who pose similar questions, we do not want it to be so. Please be civilized and unique in your answers.

I believe the answer to that question depends on what God expects of us. We can read the scriptures of the Bible and see exactly what God expects of us. Is Abraham in heaven? Did Abraham believe that Jesus is God? I doubt that he did. But I have no way of knowing that for sure. I do not recall Abraham mentioning anything about Jesus. But then I suppose, if Jesus is God, then Jesus would be the one to determine whether or not Abraham was living a life to merit eternal life with Him, whether or not Abraham actually believed that 'Jesus' was God's true name.

Let me say this: Believe in me, that what I am about to tell you is necessary and true, and you shall be saved.

Believe what the Bible says, every word, and you shall be saved. If there is something you do not understand, then just do exactly what you do understand. If you read something in the Bible that doesn't feel right to you, believe it anyway for the sake of your salvation and desire to please God, and you shall be saved.

If you happen to listen to me, and believe in me, and if as a result you become saved, who is it who has saved you from the eternal destruction that the Bible says you deserve?

 

[Sonofason]

Let me put it this way. If you were drowning in the ocean, and someone came along and carried you (swimming of course) to the beach, you would be saved. Is that not correct?

So what saved you? Was it the person who swam you to the beach, or was it the beach itself? Obviously, if the beach wasn't there, we both would drown. If we are directed in the wrong direction we shall be lost. If we are directed in the right direction we shall be saved.