Does Islam Promote Violence?

[Snowbear]

In most Islam-ruled societies, people who convert from Islam are executed.

Prove it.

Besides what I already posted from Surah 9 a couple of posts ago, it's in the Hadiths.
Here's one which cites a verse in the Quran, stating those who become Muslim then leave it and become troublemakers are considered combatants... They should be killed or crucified, banished from the land, have their hands and feet cut off, allowed to bleed until dead, not given water until they're dead, have their eyes branded....

90. Book of those of the People of Unbelief and Apostasy who wage war

The words of the Almighty,
"The reprisal against those who wage war on Allah and His Messenger, and go about the earth corrupting it, is that they should be killed or crucified, or have their alternate hands and feet cut off, or be banished from the land." (5:33)
​

6417. Abu Qilaba al-Jarmi related that Anas said, "A group from 'Ukl came to the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and became Muslim. They disliked Madina and the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, ordered them to go out to the zakat camels and drink their milk and urine. They did that and then regained their health. Then they apostatised and killed the herdsman and stole the camels. The Prophet sent [some people] in pursuit of them and they were brought and their hands and feet were cut off and their eyes gouged out and then they were not cauterised until they died."

I. The Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, did not cauterise the combatants of the apostates until they died
6418. Abu Qilaba related from Anas that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, cut off [the hands and feet} of the 'Uranis and then did not cauterise them until they died."

II. Not giving water to apostate combatants until they die
6419. Abu Qilaba related that Anas said, "A group of 'Ukl came to the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and they stayed in the Suffa. They disliked Madina snd they said, 'Messenger of Allah, get us some milk.' He said, 'I can see nothing else for you except to go to the camels of the Messenger of Allah.' They went to them and drank of their milk and urine until they were healthy and plump. Then they killed the herdsman and stole the camels.' Someone come to the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, to ask for help and he sent men after them in pursuit. It was well into the day when they were brought and he ordered that iron bars be heated up and they were placed in their eyes, and their hands and feet were cut off and not cauterised. Then they were left at al-Harra. They asked for water, but were not given water until they died.
Abu Qilaba said, "They stole and killed and fought Allah and His Messenger."

III. The Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, branding the eyes of the combatants
6420. Abu Qilaba related from Anas ibn Malik that a group of 'Ukl or 'Urayna – but I only know that he said from 'Ukl – came to Madina and the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, commanded some milk camels for them and told them to go out and drink their milk and urine. They drank it until they recovered and killed the herdsman and stole the camels. The Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, heard in the morning and sent men to pursue them. When it was well into the day, they were brought and he commanded that their hands and feet be cut off and their eyes branded. They were cast into al-Harra. They asked for water but were not given water."
Abu Qilaba said, "Those people stole, killed and disbelieved after having believed and fought Allah and His Messenger."

​

The Sahih Bukhari says several times that Muslims who leave Islam are to be executed:

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 259:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle sent us in a mission (i.e. am army-unit) and said, "If you find so-and-so and so-and-so, burn both of them with fire." When we intended to depart, Allah's Apostle said, "I have ordered you to burn so-and-so and so-and-so, and it is none but Allah Who punishes with fire, so, if you find them, kill them."
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 260:
Narrated Ikrima:
Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "
​

Volume 9, Book 83, Number 17:
Narrated 'Abdullah:
Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."
​

The mighty Wikki makes a pretty strong statement about it...

All five major schools of Islamic jurisprudence agree that a sane male apostate must be executed. A female apostate may be put to death, according to some schools, or imprisoned, according to others.

​

There's plenty more, but I'm tired now...

​

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

The Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) fought with the Quraysh because they were pagans. Read the books of history and you will know that the Quraysh not only were idolaters but they were adulterers (they used to marry their own step-mothers), child infanticide was very common among them, they used to murder each other just for honor etc. In other words they were a black spot on the Arabian Peninsula. This is one of the reasons for wars with the Quraysh. Secondly, Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) did not wage war inorder to convert people (THERE IS NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION; A verse from the Holy Qur'an, which means that religion can only be accepted by understanding it). War was always the last option.

Regards,
lets_debate

You have it partially right Muhammed fought them because they oppressed the muslims for over 13 years starving them, torturing them, killing them etc. Forcing them from their homes and stealing all the wealth they had. Then they chased them across the desert and decided to fight them in another area outside of Mecca. So even when the muslims left Quraish persued them. Read Surah Hajj verse 37 -42 i believe. It talks about some of these things although there are many ayat in the Quran that deal with this issue.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Pt2
"Let the believers not make friends with infidels in preference to the faithful—he that does this has nothing to hope for from God—except in self-defense" (3:28).
"Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people. They will spare no pains to corrupt you. They desire nothing but your ruin. Their hatred is evident from what they utter with their mouths, but greater is the hatred which their breasts conceal" (3:118).
"If you have suffered a defeat, so did the enemy.We alternate these vicissitudes among mankind so that God may know the true believers and choose martyrs from among you (God does not love the evil-doers); and that God may test the faithful and annihilate the infidels" (3:140).
"Believers, if you yield to the infidels they will drag you back to unbelief and you will return headlong to perdition. . . .We will put terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. . . . The Fire shall be their home" (3:149-51).
"Believers, do not follow the example of the infidels, who say of their brothers when they meet death abroad or in battle: ‘Had they stayed with us they would not have died, nor would they have been killed.' God will cause them to regret their words. . . . If you should die or be slain in the cause of God, God's forgiveness and His mercy would surely be better than all the riches they amass" (3:156).
"Never think that those who were slain in the cause of God are dead. They are alive, and well provided for by their Lord; pleased with His gifts and rejoicing that those they left behind, who have not yet joined them, have nothing to fear or to regret; rejoicing in God's grace and bounty. God will not deny the faithful their reward" (3:169).
"Let not the unbelievers think that We prolong their days for their own good. We give them respite only so that they may commit more grievous sins. Shameful punishment awaits them" (3:178).
"Those that suffered persecution for My sake and fought and were slain: I shall forgive them their sins and admit them to gardens watered by running streams, as a reward from God; God holds the richest recompense. Do not be deceived by the fortunes of the unbelievers in the land. Their prosperity is brief. Hell shall be their home, a dismal resting place" (3:195–96).
"God has cursed them in their unbelief" (4:46).
"God will not forgive those who serve other gods besides Him; but He will forgive whom He will for other sins. He that serves other gods besides God is guilty of a heinous sin. . . . Consider those to whom a portion of the Scriptures was given. They believe in idols and false gods and say of the infidels: ‘These are better guided than the believers'" (4:50–51).
"Those that deny Our revelation We will burn in fire. No sooner will their skins be consumed than We shall give them other skins, so that they may truly taste the scourge. God is mighty and wise" (4:55–56).
"Believers, do not seek the friendship of the infidels and those who were given the Book before you, who have made of your religion a jest and a pastime" (5:57).
"That which is revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase the wickedness and unbelief of many among them. We have stirred among them enmity and hatred, which will endure till the Day of Resurrection" (5:65).
"God does not guide the unbelievers" (5:67).
"That which is revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase the wickedness and unbelief of many among them. But do not grieve for the unbelievers" (5:69).
"You see many among them making friends with unbelievers. Evil is that to which their souls prompt them. They have incurred the wrath of God and shall endure eternal torment. . . .You will find that the most implacable of men in their enmity to the faithful are the Jews and the pagans, and that the nearest in affection to them are those who say: ‘We are Christians'" (5:80–82).
"[T]hose that disbelieve and deny Our revelations shall become the inmates of Hell" (5:86).
"[T]hey deny the truth when it is declared to them: but they shall learn the consequences of their scorn" (6:5).
"We had made them more powerful in the land than yourselves [the Meccans], sent down for them abundant water from the sky and gave them rivers that rolled at their feet. Yet because they sinned We destroyed them all and raised up other generations after them. If We sent down to you a Book inscribed on real parchment and they touched it with their own hands, the unbelievers would still assert: ‘This is but plain sorcery.' They ask: ‘Why has no angel been sent down to him [Muhammad]?' If We had sent down an angel, their fate would have been sealed and they would have never been reprieved" (6:5–8).
"Who is more wicked than the man who invents falsehoods about God or denies His revelations?" (6:21).
"Some of them listen to you. But We have cast veils over their hearts and made them hard of hearing lest they understand your words. They will believe in none of Our signs, even if they see them one and all. When they come to argue with you the unbelievers say: ‘This is nothing but old fictitious tales.' They forbid it and depart from it. They ruin none but themselves, though they do not perceive it. If you could see them when they are set before the Fire! They will say: ‘Would that we could return! Then we would not deny the revelations of our Lord and would be true believers' 6:23–27).
"But if they were sent back, they would return to that which they have been forbidden. They are liars all" (6:29).
"Had God pleased He would have given them guidance, one and all" (6:35).
"Deaf and dumb are those that deny Our revelations: they blunder about in darkness. God confounds whom He will, and guides to a straight path whom He pleases." (6:39)
"[T]heir hearts were hardened, and Satan made their deeds seem fair to them. And when they had clean forgotten Our admonition We granted them all that they desired; but just as they were rejoicing in what they were given, We suddenly smote them and they were plunged into utter despair. Thus were the evil-doers annihilated. Praise be to God, Lord of the Universe!" (6:43–45).
"[T]hose that deny Our revelations shall be punished for their misdeeds" (6:49).
"Such are those that are damned by their own sins. They shall drink scalding water and be sternly punished for their unbelief" (6:70).
"Could you but see the wrongdoers when death overwhelms them! With hands outstretched, the angels will say: ‘Yield up your souls. You shall be rewarded with the scourge of shame this day, for you have said of God what is untrue and scorned His revelations" (6:93).
"Avoid the pagans. Had God pleased, they would not have worshipped idols. . . . We will turn away their hearts and eyes from the Truth since they refused to believe in it at first. We will let them blunder about in their wrongdoing. If We sent the angels down to them, and caused the dead to speak to them, . . . and ranged all things in front of them, they would still not believe, unless God willed otherwise. . . . Thus have We assigned for every prophet an enemy: the devils among men and jinn, who inspire each other with vain and varnished falsehoods. But had your Lord pleased, they would not have done so. Therefore leave them to their own inventions, so that the hearts of those who have no faith in the life to come may be inclined to what they say and, being pleased, persist in their sinful ways" (6:107–12).
"The devils will teach their votaries to argue with you. If you obey them you shall yourselves become idolaters. . . . God will humiliate the transgressors and mete out to them a grievous punishment for their scheming" (6:121–25).
"If God wills to guide a man, He opens his bosom to Islam. But if he pleases to confound him, He makes his bosom small and narrow as though he were climbing up to heaven. Thus shall God lay the scourge on the unbelievers" (6:125).

Before any one goes into what this or that verse in the Quran means people have many things to consider. First and for most WHAT WAS THE REASON THE VERSE WAS REVEALED, WHO IS IT ADDRESSING, WHAT ISSUE IS IT TALKING ABOUT. You see many of the Non muslims who address issues dealing with the Quran are interpreting it according to their understanding. This is incorrect. If you do not know why the verse was revealed you and who it is addressing you will miss the meaning. I will give you an example. The verse many people bring up in the Quran where Allah says that some Jews and Christians will go to paradise and are forgiven. Now many will read that and say Hey So we don't have to become muslim your Quran says we are forgiven. When you particular verse was revealed after a Jewish leader Abdullah bin Salam became Muslim. And Allah said they enjoined good they stand in prayer and they get double reward because they accepted the Messenger Muhammed. Because Islam is an action. You perform Islam it is not a label. SO BE CAREFUL WHEN YOU JUST PUT VERSES UP THERE AND YOU TRY TO UNDERSTAND IT ACCORDING TO YOURS AND MINES LIMITED INTELLIGENCE. UNDERSTAND IT ACCORDING TO THE WAY THE COMPANIONS DID. SO BEFORE ANYONE REALLY READ QURAN READ THE TAFSIR OF IBN KATHIR OR QURTUBI. Then you will know the reason for the revelation who it is addressing and what issue.

Peace.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Besides what I already posted from Surah 9 a couple of posts ago, it's in the Hadiths.
Here's one which cites a verse in the Quran, stating those who become Muslim then leave it and become troublemakers are considered combatants... They should be killed or crucified, banished from the land, have their hands and feet cut off, allowed to bleed until dead, not given water until they're dead, have their eyes branded....

90. Book of those of the People of Unbelief and Apostasy who wage war

The words of the Almighty,
"The reprisal against those who wage war on Allah and His Messenger, and go about the earth corrupting it, is that they should be killed or crucified, or have their alternate hands and feet cut off, or be banished from the land." (5:33)
​

6417. Abu Qilaba al-Jarmi related that Anas said, "A group from 'Ukl came to the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and became Muslim. They disliked Madina and the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, ordered them to go out to the zakat camels and drink their milk and urine. They did that and then regained their health. Then they apostatised and killed the herdsman and stole the camels. The Prophet sent [some people] in pursuit of them and they were brought and their hands and feet were cut off and their eyes gouged out and then they were not cauterised until they died."

I. The Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, did not cauterise the combatants of the apostates until they died
6418. Abu Qilaba related from Anas that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, cut off [the hands and feet} of the 'Uranis and then did not cauterise them until they died."

II. Not giving water to apostate combatants until they die
6419. Abu Qilaba related that Anas said, "A group of 'Ukl came to the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and they stayed in the Suffa. They disliked Madina snd they said, 'Messenger of Allah, get us some milk.' He said, 'I can see nothing else for you except to go to the camels of the Messenger of Allah.' They went to them and drank of their milk and urine until they were healthy and plump. Then they killed the herdsman and stole the camels.' Someone come to the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, to ask for help and he sent men after them in pursuit. It was well into the day when they were brought and he ordered that iron bars be heated up and they were placed in their eyes, and their hands and feet were cut off and not cauterised. Then they were left at al-Harra. They asked for water, but were not given water until they died.
Abu Qilaba said, "They stole and killed and fought Allah and His Messenger."

III. The Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, branding the eyes of the combatants
6420. Abu Qilaba related from Anas ibn Malik that a group of 'Ukl or 'Urayna – but I only know that he said from 'Ukl – came to Madina and the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, commanded some milk camels for them and told them to go out and drink their milk and urine. They drank it until they recovered and killed the herdsman and stole the camels. The Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, heard in the morning and sent men to pursue them. When it was well into the day, they were brought and he commanded that their hands and feet be cut off and their eyes branded. They were cast into al-Harra. They asked for water but were not given water."
Abu Qilaba said, "Those people stole, killed and disbelieved after having believed and fought Allah and His Messenger."

​

The Sahih Bukhari says several times that Muslims who leave Islam are to be executed:

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 259:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle sent us in a mission (i.e. am army-unit) and said, "If you find so-and-so and so-and-so, burn both of them with fire." When we intended to depart, Allah's Apostle said, "I have ordered you to burn so-and-so and so-and-so, and it is none but Allah Who punishes with fire, so, if you find them, kill them."
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 260:
Narrated Ikrima:
Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "
​

Volume 9, Book 83, Number 17:
Narrated 'Abdullah:
Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."
​

The mighty Wikki makes a pretty strong statement about it...

All five major schools of Islamic jurisprudence agree that a sane male apostate must be executed. A female apostate may be put to death, according to some schools, or imprisoned, according to others.

​

There's plenty more, but I'm tired now...

so what is your point exactly. Don't forget in the verse you used it clearly states corrupting the earth. What does that mean to you. once you have established that then find out what Allah means by corrupting the earth and who does that. So did not Hitler and Ghenghis Khan and many many others corrupt the earth and oppress people. Should not they have been killed for the crimes they commited against humanity.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Rights? If you want to call them that....
The right to live subservient to Muslims while living in the lands those Muslims took by force.

I guess you did not read the contract Muhammed had with the Jews and Christians. No one under shariah is subservient to Muslims they are equal.

The right not to be forced to convert to Islam as long as submission to Islamic rule is adhered to.
The right not to be killed unless a muslim wants to find a reason to do so.

You are way off. It is apart of Shariah that if I cheat on my wife I am stoned to death. Why are the Christians not given the same. Because they have their own shariah. It is a part of Islamic shariah to give them their own shariah.

'Protection' or 'Protection contract.'
From what I've read, this 'protection' from being killed for not submitting to Islam tends to come with the price of what most free people would call oppression. Many of the dhimmi laws were meant to make sure non-Muslims were treated, seen and felt to be lesser than (or as the Quran states - 'brought low' or 'subdued') the Muslims they live among.

Wow you really like spreading disinformation. What you read is incorrect. The protection comes from the muslims themselves. If someone is harming the Non muslims who are under this contract. The muslim government will fight them tooth and nail. People are not killed for not submitting under shariah. Unless they commited some other offense which would have given them the death penalty like conspiring to harm the muslims and even their allies.

Sharia law codifies the treatment of dhimmis (Arabic) and rayahs (Turkish) under Muslim rule. Such rules are documented as far back as the 7th century [9]. The core component of treatment is the jizya, or tax specifically upon non-Muslims. The jizya originates in the Koran [9:29], which says "Fight against those who do not believe in Alah nor in the Last Day, and do not make forbidden what Allah and His messenger have made forbidden, and do not practice the religion of truth, of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the jizya off-hand, being subdued." The "Book" refers to the People of the Book, Jews and Christians, but the jizya was extended to all conquered non-Muslims.
The rules have included that a dhimmi may not speak against a Muslim in court, that he must wear distinctive clothing, can't ride "noble beasts" (horses and camels) but only donkey and must dismount in front of a Muslim, and that he must go barefoot in front of a mosque. Muslims had dhimmis, including Jews, wearing yellow in 849 CE [10], and Jews were forced to wear distinctive clothing in Muslim countries until the Jewish exodus from Yemen in 1950 [11].
In addition, a law still applied in Pakistan, Sudan and other Sharia nations today states that no new churches, temples or synagogues may be built, that no visible repairs may be made, and that praying of non-Muslims can not be heard from the street.

From a Muslim POV, I'm sure it IS considered a good thing that non-Muslims are made subservient to Muslims.

That's exactly what I've been doing....

This is not the shariah of the messenger. No man is above another in Islam. Second a christian has no place in a muslim court unless it is a issue dealing with him and a muslim. Why did Omar have a Muslim punished with a whip because he slapped a muslim if they are so subdued. In is permissible for them to build churches and temples except for Mecca and Madina. The two holy shrines. You think the pope will let us build a mosque in the vatican. NO. You need someone to instruct you propely in what is the shariah before you make statements. There is no true Islamic Shariah so any countries you mention are irrelevant. In some countries the scholars give fatwas that are in complete opposite to the sunnah of the Messenger because they are under oppression from the deviant muslim goverments. They are not the example of what is Shariah. The Prophet and his companions are. There were a few others but they all followed his example. So go and do some real study before you critique the religion and critique it from the most authentic sources and read the Tafsir of Ibn Kathir if you truly want to know the meanings of the verses of Quran.

Peace.

 

[Snowbear]

You say my understanding is wrong and incomplete.... OK then - explain it to me. Tell me YOUR interpretation of why Surah 9 was revealed and why it was needed to justify this Muhammed-led attack. Then tell me how it applies to some Muslims of today who need justification to attack those they perceive to have wronged them in some way.

 

[autonomous1one1]

So what does the the Prophet PBUH and that quote below have to do with that message?
“…Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached” Pope Benedict XVI.

Peace and Blessings
-Peace4All

Greetings Peace4all. Just finished reading all 17 pages of this thread - whew! It brings me to two questions that your answers would be very interesting to me, and perhaps others. First, let me say that my beliefs are quite independent from Islam and Christianity but Include much love and oneness with Mohammed and Jesus.

The world including most Muslims now have concluded that the protests were sparked by a gross misinterpretation of some passages of the speech recently delivered by Pope Benedict XVI in Ratisbon. The real meaning was lost as the words were exploited by fundamentalist groups to incite Islamic populations against the Pope and Christians. Whether you believe that or not is not important to my question. Suppose it is true that many Muslims were duped by the extremists without the true understanding into hurting Christians, at a minimum in the heart with words. What happens to those duped Muslims under Allah in your opinion? They would have broken teachings of Islam because of mistaken understanding without checking the facts.

My second question: Since so many interpreted the statement of the Pope above out of context, why not at least offer evidence to the contrary and give four or five most important positive 'teachings' that Mohammed brought that were beyond Christianity? Can you give us those? They would be of great use for me in my discussions with people. My readings have surfaced that Mohammed was asked once by someone close to him that after love for Allah, what is most important? His answer was something like put joy into the heart of another. That is powerful when one thinks about it. Also, many have stated in literature that each religion has some form of the Christian Golden Rule and if that is true, the rule in Islamic form would be of great interest.
Best Wishes

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

You say my understanding is wrong and incomplete.... OK then - explain it to me. Tell me YOUR interpretation of why Surah 9 was revealed and why it was needed to justify this Muhammed-led attack. Then tell me how it applies to some Muslims of today who need justification to attack those they perceive to have wronged them in some way.

First thing the interpretation I will be giving you is not mine. It is the interpretation of Muhammed and his companions. This is the first thing. Second many muslims cannot justify any of the things that people say they are doing according to the Quran and the Sunnah. I will give you the tafsir as soon as I can it is late where I am and I have school in the morning. But insha Allah I will post it for you if not tomorrow. Sunday night insha Allah.