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Does Islam Promote Violence?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Peace4all, Sep 18, 2006.

  1. Peace4all

    Peace4all New Member

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    Does Islam Promote Violence?

    Recently, I have been trying to clarify the misconceptions seen In Islam. Here is a big one: “Is violence in the nature of Islam? Does Islam promote violence?” This debate is put on frequently and usually does not end up well. So before I go any further I want to remind people that this is a civilized debate not a chair toss.
    All to often you have one person trying to cut and paste from the Quran to try to prove that Islam proves violence. One of the infamous verses used by criticizers to prove that Islam proves violence is: And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.191:2 . Whenever I see people pasting this from the Quran I’m always thinking, “Ever tried reading the verses RIGHT after this one”. Those verses clearly state:

    But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.(192:2) And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression. (193:2)The prohibited month for the prohibited month,- and so for all things prohibited,- there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, Transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves.(194:2) And spend of your substance in the cause of Allah, and make not your own hands contribute to destruction; but do good; for Allah loveth those who do good.(195:2)

    If I learned one thing from RF is Never EVER cut and paste from any subject without investigating the whole thing. I mean SHEEESH you would understand if the verses were scattered in the middle of the Quran but come on!

    It wouldn’t be fair for me to be like “Oh geee looky here” the Bible promotes violence, “ When god gives (a city) in your hands, kill all the men in it…do not leave alive anything that breathes(Deuteronomy 20:10-17) Can I rightfully use this to say that Christianity promotes violence, “NOO”. In order to understand the verse I must go back to see what situation the bible speaks of.

    Same can be said with the Quran. In “Slay them wherever ye catch them” The them refers to the pagans that massacred a tribe of the prophet’s companions when they were going to do pilgrimage in a year of peace under the treaty of Hudiybaya. Do they not deserve to be fought against for slaying innocents under a year of peace by the treaty of Hudiybaya?

    I couldn’t have picked a more appropriate time to start such a debate. As we know, recently, we had Pope Benedict XVI “criticize” Islam and our dear and beloved Prophet PBUH. Quote:
    “…Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached” Pope Benedict XVI.

    That seems like an attack to me but whether he was just trying to point out that violence blends with religion too often, or even if he was just a little tipsy at the moment, the damage was done.

    May I remind our fellow pope that before Muhammad PBUH the Arabs were a decadent and immoral people that even buried their own daughters. Where did the prophet command spreading his faith by sword? Sure the prophet fought battles (as an arrow collector); Again but is it fair for me to say “Do not think I (Jesus) have come to send peace on earth. I did not come to send peace, but a sword.”(Matthew 10:34) without noting down when did Jesus actually stated this?

    Sometimes people do get rather “upset” when people make fun of Islam, especially the prophet. I think it’s all for the best though. I had a respected teacher once comment on how strongly Israel reacted when Hamas kidnapped one soldier. Sure it’s not a reason for Israel to use this to justify a war against Lebanon but hey, that was the last time Hamas ever kidnapped anyone. After the reactions from Danish cartoons I don’t think that there will be any Danish cartoons criticizing the prophet no more. Same can be said with the situation of the pope. That may be his last nasty remark about Islam from our fellow popes for a long time.

    It’s really hard to extinguish all this fire over Islam when you have popes *cough Benedict cough* and American media criticizing Islam only beaten by the gasoline added by the Mujahedeen trying to fight Puppet leaders and foreign powers out of their country. I was watching a 9/11 video another day and it was totally ridiculous. It’s one thing to honor the Hero’s that died on 9/11 and another thing to show Muslims as untidy and inpatient people who have a desire to blowup things and pray in bathtubs. Some are more extreme than others, one of the worse ones I have seen is “Executive Decision”. In that movie they show Muslims with an AK in one hand and the Quran in the other saying “It is commanded in the Quran to kill the innocent”. All those movies seem like propaganda machines to me to try and help justify the war against Muslims. When you get 3000 people dead on 9/11 it’s a devastating day for the world. However, when Hiroshima and Nagasaki gets completely disintegrated and 950,000 people die people just seem to quickly turn their heads and forget about the whole thing. With all that propaganda in the world it’s easy to see why people may dislike Muslims.

    Lesson here is not to let a one sided opinion dominate the way you think about something. Look at the facts from both sides. I go to both cnn.com and Aljazeera.net to see what’s up. You get some pretty distorted opinions on both sides, but by looking at both you can tell what really happened.

    Hope I did not offend anyone! Lets try to keep this debate clean and avoid throwing tantrums and chairs across the forums.

    Peace and Blessings
    -Peace4all

     
    Sunstone likes this.
  2. kai

    kai ragamuffin Staff Member

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    tell me why you think that Islam is the religion of peace?
     
  3. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora Staff Member Premium Member

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    No chair tossing??? Drat!

    It seems to me that neither Islam, Christianity, nor Judaism are religions that lead to non violence to the extent that, say, Taoism does. The Middle Eastern Religions in general seem to have some problems with violence when compared to some other religions. I suspect that has something to do with the way the Middle Eastern religions set up an Us and Them worldview that too easily becomes an Us versus Them worldview.
     
  4. kai

    kai ragamuffin Staff Member

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    i think christianity went thruogh the same thing but medern society has kind of whittled away the crusader/conquistador type mentality.i am of the opinion certain islamic communities need to come in from the 7th century, i beleive the practise of following Hadith creates a problem in the 21st century
     
  5. Peace4all

    Peace4all New Member

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    That's a good question: The world Islam itself means peace/submission . Islam tries to increase Justice therefore Increasing peace. Islam terminates corruption where there is corruption. You have to think that violence comes from people who are not satisfied.

    -- I really want to go to detail but i neeeed to go to bed for school tommorow. Isha' Allah mabey one of my fellow brothers or sisters can cover up for me

    Peace and Blessings
    Peace4All
     
  6. kai

    kai ragamuffin Staff Member

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    does it mean peace or submission i thought salaam meant peace , i think it means submission which is not really the same thing
     
  7. robtex

    robtex Well-Known Member

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    Peace4all we can see on the various camps where death threats are issued and violence carried out by muslims. What we are not seeing, and maybe you can help us with this, is mosques and muslims who are protesting, condeming or against the violence being done in the name of Allah. What would be very satisfying and very relieving is to feel that there are more than the only two positions muslims are shown to have which either violent or apathic to those who are violent.

    To give you a parallel. If you are not aware the KKK is a Christian organization in the USA that promotes hate, violence and tolerance in the name of Jesus (pbuh). Christian's openly speak out against the KKK on a regular basis and those outside the KKK who are christian have the same reaction of disgust as non-believers in the USA at their actions.

    What we are not seeing, and maybe as some of muslims on here point out, it is true that it isn't be advertised but what we are not seeing is muslim anatognization, protest or open dissent for the Musims that call for death and violence. Not just over the Pope comments, but the danish cartoons, the book "The Satanic Verses", and the like. i do personally know of Islamic people and groups that openly protested 9/11 but I am unconvinced that active dissent with Islamic violence is a mainstream practice by the Islamic community.
     
  8. Peace4all

    Peace4all New Member

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    Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all in general are middle eastern religions. Taoism is a minor religion that grew away from conflict and were not oppressed against. Plus Taoism is more of an Idea like Confucianism and doesn’t have a main state to be fought against. Right from the start Christianity and Islam were fought against. If Islam took a stance like Taoism and took a "never fight stance" then it would have been a dead religion. Unfortunately there will come people across Muslims and Christians and Jews that will want to kill them because they are a threat to them in some way or another. If the religions could not defend themselves at the time then they would have been dead religions.
     
  9. Smoke

    Smoke Done here.

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    19,902
    Anyone can quote the Qur'an to show that the Qur'an doesn't promote violence, and anybody can quote the Gospels to show that Jesus doesn't promote violence. The problem is that Muslims in real life, more often than not, ignore the Qur'an and promote violence; Christians in real life, more often than not, ignore Jesus and promote violence. The Qur'an is not Islam, and Jesus was not a Christian.

    Muslims riot in the streets and kill Christians at the slightest provocation. George Bush and Tony Blair, both Evangelical Christians, pursue policies of torture and unprovoked attack on other countries with the full and unquestioning support of the majority of Evangelical Christians in their countries. Benedict of Rome, like all Popes of Rome, condemns religious coercion in countries where his followers have no political power, and demands religious coercion in countries where his followers have political power.

    It's often said that those who promote violence aren't "true" Muslims or "true" Christians. That doesn't mean anything to me at all. They're the Muslims and Christians we've got.

    Don't preach the Qur'an to me to try to convince me that Islam isn't a violent religion; the actions of Muslims show me otherwise. Don't preach the teachings of Jesus to show me that Christianity isn't a violent religion; the actions of Christians show me otherwise.

    Preach the Qur'an, preach it as long as you live, but not to me. Preach to Qur'an to Muslims, to turn them back to its teachings. Preach the teachings of Jesus, but not to me. Preach to Christians, to turn them back to Jesus' teachings. When Islam becomes a religion of peace, when Christianity becomes a religion of peace, we'll see it in the actions of Muslims and Christians, and we won't need convincing. It's not what we see now.
     
  10. Buttercup

    Buttercup la vita è bella Premium Member

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    :thud: :clap Frubals
     
  11. kai

    kai ragamuffin Staff Member

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    indeed
     
  12. gnostic

    gnostic The Lost One

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    But the problem is what do you perceive peace to be?

    It would seem that your Islamic idea of peace is different from everyone else. It seem that Muslims will only accept "peace" only on their term, which is "submission" to Islam. But what if someone don't accept your term? Do you go around burning properties or killing people, which was exactly what happened to the Pope's speech?

    The Pope's speech was not an act of war, it was a criticism. But it is obviously that Muslim sensitivity will explode with violence at any criticism, whether the speech be justified or not. The Pope's speech actually prove that the people who follow Islam are generally violent, particularly when they don't like hearing the words they hear.
     
    Snowbear likes this.
  13. gnostic

    gnostic The Lost One

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    Sorry, peace4all, but that sounds like an excuse. Right now, Islam is not threatened, militarily. There is no fight for survival today. If anything, Muslims are constantly on the news fighting over this and that.

    Look at Sudan, and you will see that Muslim militants have the powers, both politically and militarily, but they still robbing, raping and killing. They have driven 2 millions out of their home, and they have killed over 200,000. Do any of the Arabic/Muslim nations do anything or say anything in protest for the killing?

    The Sudan government don't want UN peacekeepers. Tell me, how is any different what the Jews are doing to the Palestinians? It is role reversal, but the Muslim government and militants, and have proven the Muslims are no better in peace than the Jews.
     
  14. Peace4all

    Peace4all New Member

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    Lol, I thought you were going to post something sooner or later:

    May I remind you that when the REAL Muslims ruled in Jerusalem under Salahideen they lived under what people would call a "peaceful rule". Where everyone got to practice what they want without oppression.

    Like I said about the reaction from the pope “it’s all for the best.” It was mostly just a lot of rage in peaceful protesting. Okay maybe there were 5 occasions of burning actual property where there was damage done. Then that makes the rest 99.8% of protests peaceful. With such a strong reaction it is less likely that criticism would happen again. You have to remember that the prophet is loved by the Muslims. Seriously, if the west wants peace then why do they add gas to the fire? If the pope thought he can get away by lampooning the prophet boy was he wrong. It makes me damn proud to know that even such an important public figure can’t get away
    with insulting our prophet. :yes: I guess im just trying to say im proud for Muslims standing up for themselvs.
     
  15. MdmSzdWhtGuy

    MdmSzdWhtGuy New Member

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    All religions claiming to follow a "One True God" have either violent pasts, presents or both. It is the nature of the ultimate us vs. them that is set up whenever you have a "there is only one way to salvation" type of mentality.

    Islam promotes violence, Christianity does too, especially prior to the Reformation, and the two most dangerous concepts in human history are religion and nationalism, scariest when combined in an oligarchy like Christianity prior to the Reformation and Islamic governments to this day.

    Anyone can pull a verse or a sura here and there to show that one or the other religion is either peaceful or violent, but verses and sura's can both be quoted to mean whatever you want them to mean. What really matters is the reality of the world as it is and has been. Watch the news and read your history books, that is reality.

    B.
     
  16. gnostic

    gnostic The Lost One

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    Muhammad is a prophet who is dead. Why should he even care, if he is really in Paradise?

    You are turning your prophet into a god-like being instead of just a prophet - a human being who has been dead for over a thousand years. Why are Muslims treating him like god as if criticising the prophet count as being blasphemy? I thought blasphemy are reserved for god, not for prophet.

    To me, you are treat Muhammad, like some Christians are treating Jesus as god. You say that Christians are worshipping a human as god, but I am afraid that Muslims today are doing precisely the same thing, worshipping your prophet as god.

    Seriously I thought there were only one god in Islam, but apparently there is two.
    You Muslims have been criticising Christians for being polytheistic because of the Trinity, but I see that Islam is a dualistic religion - with the godhood of Allah and Muhammad.

    Criticises the Islamic prophet and you will be butcher or beaten for blasphemy.

    Even the Jews don't treat their prophets, Abraham and Moses in such fashion. Do you think Muhammad is more than or greater than Abraham and Moses? Someone told me (a Muslim) that treat all prophets as equal, and that Muhammad is only one among equal, but apparently not. It is clear that Muslims have elevated so high that non-Muslim can't cross your eyes about Muhammad.
     
  17. kai

    kai ragamuffin Staff Member

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    no one insulted the prophet but they have insulted god by attacking churches and killing a nun ,i wouldnt be proud of death threats to the pope.
     
  18. Peace4all

    Peace4all New Member

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    Your joking right? You have to remember that all the "Arabic/Muslim" countries are mostly puppet governed. The puppet governments rule for the best intrest of Their employers not for it's country. Egypt is not a democracy; if you speak out against the government you are quickly silenced. Other occasions they make an example out of you, like when they beat one Imam for months and at the end of his punishment tied him to a post on a highway naked. No Joke. (sorry i can't remember his name right at the moment but it happend recently)

    A more direct threat torwards Islam is in Israel, I'm sure we all know what the story is over there.

    What do you mean about "this and that"?


    I'm afraid I don't know what your speaking of. Citation please.


    Lol, what is the UN? I feel that the UN is put there just to make the US SEEM fair. Numerous numbers of times when the UN demanded that the US refrain from military actions the US just threatens to cut the funds of the UN. This is something I can prove with facts if someone wants me to. I am in no way saying that the UN doesn't help the world become a better place but I'm trying to say that the UN in itself is corrupt.
     
  19. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule Well-Known Member

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    For what it's worth, I thought that was a rather good post.
     
  20. Peace4all

    Peace4all New Member

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    Reality is that there are atrocities committed in the name of god sometimes. When people say, "look at the Muslim people they did *fill in the blank*". There are about 1.2 Billion Muslims in the world and probably like 1.5 Million Muslim people associated with some "terrorist" organization. That percentage makes .125% of Muslim people terrorists. I don't know why everyone clings to the .125%. What I am trying to prove is that Islam is a perfect religion; the people that follow it are not.
     
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