Does Islam Need a Reformation?

[gsa]

Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the Somali-Dutch-American ex-Muslim who has been vilified as an Islamophobe by her opponents, has called on atheists to recognize that while all religions may have problems, not all religions are equally bad. As she explains in an excerpt of her new book Heretic:


Let me make my point in the simplest possible terms: Islam is not a religion of peace. For expressing the idea that Islamic violence is rooted not in social, economic, or political conditions—or even in theological error—but rather in the foundational texts of Islam itself, I have been denounced as a bigot and an “Islamophobe.” I have been silenced, shunned, and shamed. In effect, I have been deemed to be a heretic, not just by Muslims—for whom I am already an apostate—but by some Western liberals as well, whose multicultural sensibilities are offended by such “insensitive” pronouncements.

My uncompromising statements on this topic have incited such vehement denunciations that one would think I had committed an act of violence myself. For today, it seems, speaking the truth about Islam is a crime. “Hate speech” is the modern term for heresy. And in the present atmosphere, anything that makes Muslims feel uncomfortable is branded as “hate.”

In these pages, it is my intention to make many people—not only Muslims but also Western apologists for Islam—uncomfortable. I am not going to do this by drawing cartoons. Rather, I intend to challenge centuries of religious orthodoxy with ideas and arguments that I am certain will be denounced as heretical. My argument is for nothing less than a Muslim Reformation. Without fundamental alterations to some of Islam’s core concepts, I believe, we shall not solve the burning and increasingly global problem of political violence carried out in the name of religion. I intend to speak freely, in the hope that others will debate equally freely with me on what needs to change in Islamic doctrine, rather than seeking to stifle discussion.

Are you a partisan of Ali? Do you agree that there is a fundamental problem with Islam, and that Islam needs fundamental reform?

 

[jeager106]

Islam needs do something to stop the murders.
Islam follows the Quran, their bible, that is full of sayings that mean "kill the infidel.
Muslims kill each other with reckless abandon.
Even members of the same sects kill other members of the same sect due to tribal
differences. This Arab tribal hatred existed long before Muhammuad invented Islam and hasn't
slowed down because of the Quran.
Is the Quran fundamentally flawed?
Are Arabs fundalmentally flawed?
I have idea what would stop the violence in a culture that is powered by killing others & justify such acts
as being "o.k." because of differences in sects within Islam and differences in those same sects due to
ancient tribal differences.
Iran supports, funds, equips, extremists so that they have the means to carry out act of murder.
Saudi Arabia does the same. The Saudies have the wealth to support terror organizations more than Iran does.
Obama is eager to give Iran the means to develope nuclear weapons.
Sadly there are liberals who sincerely believe Iran would never develop "the bomb" much less use one.
There is no doubt that Iran would blow Israel off the face of the earth and consequences would be of
NO consequence at all.
All this in the name of worshiping Allah and promoting the religion of peace.
Obama is an example of a liberal whose common sense went south, or Obama seceretly
desires the destruction of Israel.
We already know he holds Bibi in contempt as he does all Jews.
I'm not a partasan of any muslim.
Islam is simply hatred of Christians and Jews that was inflamed by Muhammud 1400 years ago.
It's a religion that fit the culture and traditions of a culture that already developed well entrenched ideology that
killing those with whom you disagee is acceptable, even prefered. Now that culture of murder is reinforced
by a "faith" and rewards the faithful dying while promiting Islam with a trip into heaven and a slew of virgins
to have sew with in heaven.
That makes some kind of spiritual sense?

 

[George-ananda]

I think there are of course more liberal factions already within Islam that allow for the evolution of Islam with changing times. These more 'liberal' factions allow the freedom of others to live and express themselves as they wish.

It's just unfortunate that the conservative factions of Islam prey on young less educated classes to install an angry 'us versus them' mentality instead of the brotherhood of all men.

As education, exposure and modernization are on the rise, the 'liberal' forms will gain ascendancy. This may be the reformation the author is talking about.

 

[Tumah]

Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the Somali-Dutch-American ex-Muslim who has been vilified as an Islamophobe by her opponents, has called on atheists to recognize that while all religions may have problems, not all religions are equally bad. As she explains in an excerpt of her new book Heretic:


Let me make my point in the simplest possible terms: Islam is not a religion of peace. For expressing the idea that Islamic violence is rooted not in social, economic, or political conditions—or even in theological error—but rather in the foundational texts of Islam itself, I have been denounced as a bigot and an “Islamophobe.” I have been silenced, shunned, and shamed. In effect, I have been deemed to be a heretic, not just by Muslims—for whom I am already an apostate—but by some Western liberals as well, whose multicultural sensibilities are offended by such “insensitive” pronouncements.

My uncompromising statements on this topic have incited such vehement denunciations that one would think I had committed an act of violence myself. For today, it seems, speaking the truth about Islam is a crime. “Hate speech” is the modern term for heresy. And in the present atmosphere, anything that makes Muslims feel uncomfortable is branded as “hate.”

In these pages, it is my intention to make many people—not only Muslims but also Western apologists for Islam—uncomfortable. I am not going to do this by drawing cartoons. Rather, I intend to challenge centuries of religious orthodoxy with ideas and arguments that I am certain will be denounced as heretical. My argument is for nothing less than a Muslim Reformation. Without fundamental alterations to some of Islam’s core concepts, I believe, we shall not solve the burning and increasingly global problem of political violence carried out in the name of religion. I intend to speak freely, in the hope that others will debate equally freely with me on what needs to change in Islamic doctrine, rather than seeking to stifle discussion.

Are you a partisan of Ali? Do you agree that there is a fundamental problem with Islam, and that Islam needs fundamental reform?

This is a hard question to answer. Understanding where Muslims are coming from, this is not as easy to suggest as economic reform. You are telling them that what they believe is reality is not. You can't tell them to reform what they believe is true. It's not like telling them spend your money more wisely. Is there an issue here? I think looking at Muslims across the borders indicate a fundamental problem for us in their belief. But the only solution I think will help is some super-Imam teaching Muslims about how Islam really does require of its Muslims to be peaceful on all fronts. And that is not a simple task. I vote for smart_guy to be that Imam.

 

[gsa]

I think there are of course more liberal factions already within Islam that allow for the evolution of Islam with changing times. These more 'liberal' factions allow the freedom of others to live and express themselves as they wish.

It's just unfortunate that the conservative factions of Islam prey on young less educated classes to install an angry 'us versus them' mentality instead of the brotherhood of all men.

As education, exposure and modernization are on the rise, the 'liberal' forms will gain ascendancy. This may be the reformation the author is talking about.

The liberal reformers face unique difficulties. The only places where they can operate more or less openly are Western liberal democracies, and even then they are subject to retaliatory attacks. For example, Majid Nawaz received death threats last year for tweeting a cartoon.

The conservatives reign supreme unfortunately.

 

[George-ananda]

The liberal reformers face unique difficulties. The only places where they can operate more or less openly are Western liberal democracies, and even then they are subject to retaliatory attacks. For example, Majid Nawaz received death threats last year for tweeting a cartoon.

The conservatives reign supreme unfortunately.

They reign but in conflict with the liberals for now. But remember the last sentence of my quote where I was taking a longer term view of things:

As education, exposure and modernization are on the rise, the 'liberal' forms will gain ascendancy.

Give it two generations.

 

[Pastek]

Are you a partisan of Ali? Do you agree that there is a fundamental problem with Islam, and that Islam needs fundamental reform?

What is exactly her job of that woman ? Is she only making buisness with Islam ?

“In America today, the level of public anti-Muslim bigotry is shockingly high. Politicians and pundits, usually on the right, say things about Muslims that they would be immediately fired for saying about Christians or Jews,” writes Peter Beinhart.

Who are the millionaires behind the Islamophobic industry in America? | Middle East Eye

What i think about Ayaan Hirsi ? An opportunist who doesn't care about Islam, just want to make some money and don't have enought basis of Islam and the muslim world in general (i've watched some of her debates).

She is just like all of this other stupid liars that you can see on the photo. She's not the worst though.

 

[Nietzsche]

Islam doesn't need a reformation. It needs an Enlightenment era.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Islam doesnt need anything from apostates.

 

[Tumah]

Islam doesn't need a reformation. It needs an Enlightenment era.

That just might be quite well put.

 

[Nietzsche]

Islam doesnt need anything from apostates.

Morals would help. Some reason wouldn't hurt either.

 

[gsa]

Islam doesnt need anything from apostates.

The religion certainly doesn't deserve their insight, but it is in dire need of it.

 

[gsa]

What is exactly her job of that woman ? Is she only making buisness with Islam ?

“In America today, the level of public anti-Muslim bigotry is shockingly high. Politicians and pundits, usually on the right, say things about Muslims that they would be immediately fired for saying about Christians or Jews,” writes Peter Beinhart.

Who are the millionaires behind the Islamophobic industry in America? | Middle East Eye

What i think about Ayaan Hirsi ? An opportunist who doesn't care about Islam, just want to make some money and don't have enought basis of Islam and the muslim world in general (i've watched some of her debates).

She is just like all of this other stupid liars that you can see on the photo. She's not the worst though.

What specifically, with respect to Ali, is a lie? As opposed to for example heated rhetoric. She has said some things that I strongly disagree with. For example, she thinks that it would be better for Muslims to convert to Christianity, but I doubt that conversion to Christianity would change the fundamental problems given that the approach to scripture would likely remain the same.

 

[gsa]

Islam doesn't need a reformation. It needs an Enlightenment era.

That's true. Although I don't care for much of what he said, I think Reza Aslan is right when he says that Islam is going through a reformation right now, and just like during the Christian reformation era there are violent extremists that are also reformers of a kind.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Islam doesn't need a reformation. It needs an Enlightenment era.

Well said. I never stopped to realise the obvious difference between the Reformation and the Enlightenment here. Islam is definitely in need of its own Enlightenment.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Islam should be reformed to how it was 7th century. Now there are forces who wants to corrupt islam. Insha Allah they will never succeed.

 

[gsa]

Islam should be reformed to how it was 7th century. Now there are forces who wants to corrupt islam. Insha Allah they will never succeed.

So you'd be what Ali calls a "Medina Muslim" then.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Islam should be reformed to how it was 7th century. Now there are forces who wants to corrupt islam. Insha Allah they will never succeed.

What would be the role or fate of someone like Ibn al-Rawandi in this ideal?

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

What would be the role or fate of someone like Ibn al-Rawandi in this ideal?

Aslong he is not an apostate who gives information to the enemy or joins the enemy, nothing should fall upon him. People should be free to enter islam and leave islam as mentioned in quran:
And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve.

However ayaan does not fall on this category of apostasy. Her fate is very dark.
The apostate that deserves death penalty is the one who reveals secrets of muslims to enemy, selling information, or conspiring with the enemy. To deterr other apostates to do the same, an example will be made.

 

[gsa]

Aslong he is not an apostate who gives information to the enemy or joins the enemy, nothing should fall upon him. People should be free to enter islam and leave islam as mentioned in quran:
And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve.

However ayaan does not fall on this category of apostasy. Her fate is very dark.
The apostate that deserves death penalty is the one who reveals secrets of muslims to enemy, selling information, or conspiring with the enemy. To deterr other apostates to do the same, an example will be made.

It is extremely revealing that Ayaan Hirsi Ali is, in your approximation, worthy of the death penalty for apostasy.

I also thought that you had reformed your position on apostasy and were now more hardline. But in any event, very revealing about the religion of submission.