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Featured Does Islam agree with Psychiatry and Psychology on schizophrenia?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Link, Jul 11, 2020.

  1. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to say it doesn't. As some of you know my style, sometimes I write an OP in detail, and sometimes I wait for responses before showing evidence from my viewpoint.

    Before I bring proof from Quran and hadiths that there is no agreement between Islam and the medical stance today, I will let people weigh in their thoughts.
     
  2. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    Are you prepared to say Islam cannot accept or adapt to reality? We can very well explain schizophrenia as a mental illness of pure physical origin. Are you ready to say Allah and demons are so pathetically weak that some medications prepared by the minds and hands if humand are more than powerful enough to silence those voices and severe their holds on schizophrenics?
     
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  3. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    I'm saying they are opposites in how they approach and perceive the illness. Which one is true, is for people to discern.
     
  4. columbus

    columbus member

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    I don't think that they're opposites.

    One is informed and sophisticated and demonstrable.
    One is primitive.

    People have their own motivations for finding a view on the subject that suits them.
    Tom
     
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  5. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    They have same data, how to interpret Data is subjective and stems from beliefs.
     
  6. columbus

    columbus member

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    Who has the same data? What do you mean by data?

    If you're talking about the Quran, it has no data concerning mental illness or treatment of it. It's primitive literature.

    Beliefs, in the sense of faith based beliefs, are wrong when they conflict with evidence based beliefs and therefore cause harm. That happens a lot when people prefer to believe things that ancient folk believed when better data is available quite easily.

    My brother-in-law went to the hospital last night. He had chest pains and thought he was having a heart attack. I'm pretty sure the doctor who treated him was Muslim. But he was competent and got the job done.

    I don't care about his religious beliefs, but I'm sure he didn't learn to diagnose and treat cardio-pulmonary issues from the Quran.
    Tom

    P.s. My brother-in-law is fine. It was more of an attention getting device than a physical problem.
     
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  7. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    As a practitioner of psychology, you are allowing me to say my beliefs force your god to his knees. Except mine aren't beliefs. I know anti-psychotics tend to work for schizophrenics. I continually encourage treatment, I have silenced the voice of god himself. You work with a team of believers. I work with a team of clinicians. We know, by research and study, my team is going to do wonders to address the positive symptoms of schizophrenia while working to manage the negative symptoms, and the clients quality of life can be expected to improve from medical intervention alone.
     
    #7 Shadow Wolf, Jul 11, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
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  8. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    You analyze the illness from a perspective. That perspective stems from beliefs. Including the effects of medications on the person with the illness.
     
  9. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    God knows how medications work and even in the past, people saw people lose their minds. What it means to be human is central to this question, of what the illness is.
     
  10. columbus

    columbus member

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    What does that even mean? How could you possibly know that? Why didn't God explain it in some Scripture somewhere?
    What did Allah do to help?
    Nothing! That's what. Mental illness was a constant problem for humans over centuries, and it wasn't until people started dumping God as a source of knowledge that we started finding effective treatments.

    Yeah, exactly.

    Mental illness is solid proof that humans don't really have free will. Which makes most Abrahamic ethics and theology obsolete.
    Tom
     
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  11. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    It's not a belief when supported by evidence and research. It's a fact the medications are tremendously helpful with schizophrenia. I don't believe this, I know this, I have seen.
     
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  12. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    For me it means I don't get to live with the illusion of free will. I have Asperger's. This means my brain functions in abnormal ways we can see in the brain. I have bipolar 2. That is the result of a very rare side effect of SSRIs, so it's not at all my will whem my mood is soaring, crashes hard, bounces back yp sky high, and crashes again. The initial depression is largely the result of a **** life, of which Christians and their beliefs are strongly responsible for.
    "Nothing of me is original. I am the combined efforts of everyone I've ever known." (Chuck Palahniuk) My life has made that apparent, as I am very aware of the tremendous influence society, my illnesses, and other factors have played in shaping and molding me into who I am.
     
  13. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    It's helpful in some respects, and there are harms in other effects. The medications all they do is block dopamine receptors, block enough, and yes, the brain can't do much and so they mimic more normal when most of their brain is blocked from activity. But while they halt activity to the extent positive symptoms in some people go away (while not everyone do they go away), they increase negative symptoms and make things harder in many respects.

    But what is the implications if there is interior world and people with this illness just don't control their 6th sense properly or know how to cope when open to the spiritual world? What is the true nature of the illness then? Medications are they a permanent solution or are they meant to be more like if someone breaks a leg, you protect the leg till it heals.

    Also, are demonic beings beatable, or should they be feared? Or are they beatable with the help of God... if demonic possession has to do with it.

    Mental health - always says let's have dialogue. But from my experience, it's been no dialogue, just a dictation.
     
  14. columbus

    columbus member

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    It's still a belief.
    The difference is that it's knowledge. Beliefs based on objective evidence.
    As opposed to faith, beliefs based on ego and personal preferences.
    Tom
     
  15. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    Such things have been extensively researched. Due to consistently turning up viable, good evidence those programs have fallen into the annals of history.
    It also fails as it is an impossible explanation when it comes to thise who aren't schizophrenics. Atheists we would think would be most prone who would have no interest in controlling a sense they dont believe in, amd schizophrenics are often very religious.
    Your "demons" are defeated with Latuda and Seroquel. Their voices are silenced, their i fluence severed.
    Let me explain something. This question confirms to me you don't actually know much about mental health or the practice of psychology and psychiatry. You ask this, but the goal for most is to use medication similar to as a crutch would be used. That's not always possible, and with something like schizophrenia we find--due to things such as brain structure and genetics--medication isn't a crutch but more if a long-term use walker or cane. Because they effectively treat the positive symptoms, but schizophrenia is a lifelong condition.
     
  16. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    I don't "believe" a lightbulb will turn on when I flip a switch and close the electrical circuit. Its silly to call it a belief because such simple principles of electricity are very well documented, understood, and are rules of science that govern and dictate the modern world of technology. It is a thing of such certainty, the belief comes in to play with the integrity of the connections, insulation, power source, and such. We don't need to believe the physics behind the circuits. We know its true and works and is fact. But you believe all contacts points are clean before you solder them. But one of them wasn't cleaned that well and the solder isnt holding as well. It's not a problem with the math.
     
  17. Eddi

    Eddi currently engaged in spiritual warfare

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    I think that schizophrenia is a real illness caused by an imbalance of chemicals in the brain, that can be treated with medication

    But I also believe in demon possession

    I believe the two are often confused but that 99% of the time it is schizophrenia

    Although I have been diagnosed with schizophrenia I believe I am haunted by a demon

    Over the past few days my condition has rapidly improved through the power of prayer

    But I also recognise that it is vital for me to continue to take my meds
     
  18. columbus

    columbus member

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    It's hard to imagine a dialogue with someone who believes this.
    Some medications do so, but there's zillions of others with different effects.
    Tom
     
  19. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    The reason it's seen as a long term crutch comes from disbelief in the unseen, not from evidence, that people with the illness can't eventually believe in what they experience and function well.
     
  20. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    And the reason most people need to stay on medications, is due to the flaws in psychology in providing coping methods.
     
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