Does Hinduism acknowledge Jesus as an Avatar?

[punkdbass]

I notice there is some slight tension in me being here in the Hindu DIR because lately I have been studying a lot of Yogananda's teachings and his organization does view Jesus as a legitimate Avatar of God. I have not made up my mind yet on how I view Jesus, but right now I do see a lot of teachings of Yoga within his teachings.. it's hard for me to overlook this.

I am not really interested in lay Hindu's opinions of whether or not Jesus is an Avatar, rather I'm hoping that you guys can point me to scholarship of Hindu scholars (books, talks or essays?) who've actually deeply studied the NT and Christianity and have either arrived at the conclusions that Jesus is or is not an Avatar. I would love to hear their arguments, and I'd love to hear your guys thoughts here as well.. but to simply say "Jesus is not an Avatar or associated with Hinduism, period" - as some people have done here... is not satisfying enough to me. I want to learn why Hinduism does or does not view Jesus as a living embodiment of dharma or God... rather than just accept blindly that he is not.

 

[Vinayaka]

I've requested this gets moved to comparative debates. It has no place in the Hindu DIR.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar

 

[punkdbass]

I have absolutely no desire to debate. I just want to learn Hinduism's perspective on the issue, but more specifically I'm interested in Hindu scholarship on the subject... are not DIR's a good place to ask for such resources?

 

[Kalidas]

I have absolutely no desire to debate. I just want to learn Hinduism's perspective on the issue, but more specifically I'm interested in Hindu scholarship on the subject... are not DIR's a good place to ask for such resources?

Trust us on this matter it will turn into a debate. I dont think he is doing it to harm you or to insult you. He has seen discussions like this before and they always turn into a debate.

 

[punkdbass]

Trust us on this matter it will turn into a debate. I dont think he is doing it to harm you or to insult you. He has seen discussions like this before and they always turn into a debate.

I just have no interest to get into debate mode - I realize this is a very controversial question, and if we allow this thread to be a debate it will just spin into chaos within minutes. Like I said, I'm purely interested in scholarly works and arguments for why Hinduism does not view Jesus as an Avatar.. I mean this in all sincerity - the subject very much interests me... I just want to find some good resources to help expand my mind on the subject rather than accept opinions at face value.. perhaps I will just have to research it more on my own later this week.

 

[Avi1001]

Trust us on this matter it will turn into a debate. I dont think he is doing it to harm you or to insult you. He has seen discussions like this before and they always turn into a debate.

Hi All,

I would like to introduce myself, I am Avi, a new poster in the Hindu DIR. I usually post in the Judaism DIR.

First I would like to acknowledge your graciousness, here in the DIR, where you have been patiently answering all of punkd's questions about Hinduism. I also am interested in Hinduism, so I have been reading these posts.

I would also like to bring to your attention what a unique poster punkd is. He is truly an explorer and seeker and he is authentically interested in Hinduism. He has great interest in Yogananda, and has synergized my interest as well. He has shown initiative and leadership by coming to the Hindu DIR to speak with you. I believe this is the heart of interfaith dialogue.

Please keep this in mind as you discuss these very interesting ideas with punkd .

 

[Vinayaka]

He is truly an explorer and seeker and he is authentically interested in Hinduism. He has great interest in Yogananda, and has synergized my interest as well.

.

Then debate it is.

Firstly, Yogananda nor his organisation are Hindu. So that discounts His opinions. Since SRF is not Hindu, they cannot be counted as authorities on the matter.

Almost the entire body of Hindu scripture predates Christianity. So scholarly works relying on Hindu scripture will be few and far between. There would be no mention of Christ at all in any ancient Hindu scripture.

Christ - Christianity is the worship, the study of Christ. It pertains to Christ. That is clear. It's right in the name.

The very idea is an extremely recent idea. Some Indian swamis came to the west and recognised a Christian culture existing here. So they tried to speak to that culture, and in many cases were quite successful at it, creating this neo-Hinduism, neo-advaitha thing that has very little to do with Hinduism.

In previous discussion, (and I have had many) it just gets very tiring. Over on the main Hindu forum on the internet, we've had to ban all discussions of it, because it inevitably leads to ill feelings from both sides. The Christians think we're insulting them, when really we're not. We;re just saying that the two are distinct religions. It's like the Japanese and Uruguay governments, or two languages ... entirely separate.

When two languages meet, you do get a sort of mix (Creole is an example) but its not really either of the above.

I don't doubt for a moment the seriousness of any sincere seeker, and that includes questions like this. But the problem arises when you won't accept the answer. And that is that Christ is part and parcel of Christianity, not Hinduism.

Imagine for a moment (I'm totally serious, please imagine it) if a Hindu went into the Christianity DIR or Judaism DIR and asked. "Does Ganesha have a role to play in Christianity?" or Do Christians or Jews accept Ganesha or Kali Maa as a God to pray to? I suspect most Christians would scratch their head and say, "What the heck is Ganesha?" or "What a silly question!"

This is exactly the same thing, but in opposite directions. Does that make any sense at all?

 

[Kalidas]

Hi All,

I would like to introduce myself, I am Avi, a new poster in the Hindu DIR. I usually post in the Judaism DIR.

First I would like to acknowledge your graciousness, here in the DIR, where you have been patiently answering all of punkd's questions about Hinduism. I also am interested in Hinduism, so I have been reading these posts.

I would also like to bring to your attention what a unique poster punkd is. He is truly an explorer and seeker and he is authentically interested in Hinduism. He has great interest in Yogananda, and has synergized my interest as well. He has shown initiative and leadership by coming to the Hindu DIR to speak with you. I believe this is the heart of interfaith dialogue.

Please keep this in mind as you discuss these very interesting ideas with punkd .

Welcome . I hope we can answer the questions. Oh of course I love the guy! We just know that this particular topic will go into a debate. I know he's just asking for info as to why Hindus do not think Jesus is an avatar, but it will turn into a debate. I wish it wouldn't I wish we could just discuss it but there are certain people (one in particular) who will argue

 

[Sb1995]

Not this again..the answer is no.

 

[LuisDantas]

I never knew that Yogananda was not considered Hindu. In order not to derail the thread, maybe you can just provide a link to a suitable thread on this matter?

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

I'm going to have to say no based on my experience. I have been to a handful of traditional temples and not a single one displays any Christ or Christianity related iconography, nor is there any mention of his in ceremonies.

If a connection exists it's going to come from a fusion of the two religions and not endorsed by either officially.

:camp:

 

[Avi1001]

Welcome . I hope we can answer the questions. Oh of course I love the guy! We just know that this particular topic will go into a debate. I know he's just asking for info as to why Hindus do not think Jesus is an avatar, but it will turn into a debate. I wish it wouldn't I wish we could just discuss it but there are certain people (one in particular) who will argue

Thank you for your kind welcome, and nice words about punkd, as well !!

One of the things I have learned about interfaith dialogue, is that they usually have to begin at a very foundational level. We deal with exactly the same issues in the Judaism DIR. We sometimes have visitors who ask questions that are hard for us to understand, and they sometimes receive a less than warm reception . I usually find myself encouraging the poster, and welcoming them, like you are !

 

[Kalidas]

Thank you for your kind welcome, and nice words about punkd, as well !!

One of the things I have learned about interfaith dialogue, is that they usually have to begin at a very foundational level. We deal with exactly the same issues in the Judaism DIR. We sometimes have visitors who ask questions that are hard for us to understand, and they sometimes receive a less than warm reception . I usually find myself encouraging the poster, and welcoming them, like you are !

I remember what it was like when I was first learning about Hinduism and everyone here was so nice and helpful. They may sound discouraging but honestly everyone here is honestly trying to teach about the real Hinduism.

 

[Vinayaka]

Thank you for your kind welcome, and nice words about punkd, as well !!

One of the things I have learned about interfaith dialogue, is that they usually have to begin at a very foundational level. We deal with exactly the same issues in the Judaism DIR. We sometimes have visitors who ask questions that are hard for us to understand, and they sometimes receive a less than warm reception . I usually find myself encouraging the poster, and welcoming them, like you are !

Part of the problem for me personally, is that I've seen the same question too many times. I was probably more welcoming the first 10 times. Now its just a drag.
But hey, I hope you don't find us too insulting. At least Kalidas has some patience. But then he's about 35 years younger than me too.

 

[Vinayaka]

I never knew that Yogananda was not considered Hindu. In order not to derail the thread, maybe you can just provide a link to a suitable thread on this matter?

Go to SRF and search their site, or search on SRF controversy.
http://www.equip.org/articles/swami-yogananda-and-the-self-realization-fellowship/#christian-books-1

 

[Contemplative Cat]

Traditional Hindus does not have any relationship with Christ.
But most American Hindu "converts" do normally think of Jesus as an avatar.
yogananda taught Hinduism in a Christian context, and the book be here now states that baba Ram Dass' guru Hari Dass Baba taught that Jesus was an Avatar of the God Vishnu.

But many don't. Believe in avatars so some would just say he was a realized yogi.

 

[punkdbass]

@Vinayaka:

I am going to call the SRF sometime this week and talk to them about whether or not they consider themselves Hindu, and I will address concerns that some Hindu's do not think they are a Hindu organization.. I am curious to what they have to say and I will get back to you guys on this.

I don't doubt for a moment the seriousness of any sincere seeker, and that includes questions like this. But the problem arises when you won't accept the answer. And that is that Christ is part and parcel of Christianity, not Hinduism.

Imagine for a moment (I'm totally serious, please imagine it) if a Hindu went into the Christianity DIR or Judaism DIR and asked. "Does Ganesha have a role to play in Christianity?" or Do Christians or Jews accept Ganesha or Kali Maa as a God to pray to? I suspect most Christians would scratch their head and say, "What the heck is Ganesha?" or "What a silly question!"

I'm glad you respect the seriousness and sincerity of my "seeking"...I have not come here with an agenda, I come to the RF to learn and further expand my mind throughout my journey. I am starting to get a better understanding of your perspective based off of this post. So correct me if I'm wrong but this is what I'm getting out of your post:

Jesus is very much the main symbol of Institutional Christianity, for Jesus symbolically stands for all the values and teachings of Christianity, etc. And Jesus, as a symbol, literally has no place in Institutional Hinduism. This makes sense to me, I get this.. but where I am still confused I guess, is that from my perspective: although Jesus as a symbol has no place within Institutional Hinduism, I believe that many of the things Jesus, as a symbol, points too, have counterparts within Hinduism. Am I wrong for saying this? As for your example, I would say that Ganesha and Kali Maa, as symbols, have no place within Organizational/Institutional Judaism... however, I would be very open to the possibility that certain things that Genesha and Kali Maa symbolically point to, may indeed have analogous counterparts within my Judaism. Any whether or not it is futile or wrong to point out, dwell upon and discuss such commonalities seems to me a topic for a different discussion.

 

[Vinayaka]

But most American Hindu "converts" do normally think of Jesus as an avatar.

Not sure if it's 'most' or just 'some' now. I fit the 'some' category. But yeah, it is definitely a fact in America that Hinduism has had a difficult time staying pure to its roots.

 

[Avi1001]

Part of the problem for me personally, is that I've seen the same question too many times. I was probably more welcoming the first 10 times. Now its just a drag.
But hey, I hope you don't find us too insulting. At least Kalidas has some patience. But then he's about 35 years younger than me too.

Thank you for your response, I understand these type of sensitivities. By the way, I am quite a bit older than punkd, too (but please don't tell him ).

 

[Vinayaka]

Jesus is very much the main symbol of Institutional Christianity, for Jesus symbolically stands for all the values and teachings of Christianity, etc. And Jesus, as a symbol, literally has no place in Institutional Hinduism. This makes sense to me, I get this.. but where I am still confused I guess, is that from my perspective: although Jesus as a symbol has no place within Institutional Hinduism, I believe that many of the things Jesus, as a symbol, points too, have counterparts within Hinduism. Am I wrong for saying this? As for your example, I would say that Ganesha and Kali Maa, as symbols, have no place within Organizational/Institutional Judaism... however, I would be very open to the possibility that certain things that Genesha and Kali Maa symbolically point to, may indeed have analogous counterparts within my Judaism.

Maybe. Maybe not. It simply doesn't interest me whether there are pointers or not. I get up. I do sadhana, I go to temple. It makes no difference to me at all whether or not there are common underlying principles. (For me, Hinduism provides me with too much sadhana already.) There might be. There might not be. I tend to think that because of a psychological need for some sort of unity or friendliness, or even interfaith dialogue, some commonalities are argued for when they don't exist. Certainly there is commonality in ethics. We know that. Even there, though, there is disagreement. Vegetarianism as it relates to ahimsa is an example.

And I must say that of the 3 Abrahamic faiths, Judaism does seem closer to Hinduism than the other two. There used to be a Jewish-Hindu specific interfaith group.