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Featured Does God welcome everyone into heaven?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Trailblazer, Apr 11, 2020.

  1. cataway

    cataway Well-Known Member

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    Considering how many different bibles there are and that so many of them virtually say the same thing. That Jesus came down and returned before any other person ,means your argument stands.... mute!
     
  2. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    I was pointing to what it is not

    Adam did not lose his life for the acquisition of knowledge

    and I do not believe he failed to gain heaven

    not sure about Eve
     
  3. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I agree, because I believe that Adam was a Prophet of God, the first Prophet in the Adamic Cycle of religion which ended with Muhammad, who was the Seal of the Prophets.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    Do Baha'is believe that he was the first human that God created? And, since the Bible doesn't indicate anything that I can see that would qualify him as a prophet, what is it that Baha'is say about him that makes you believe he's a prophet to the Baha'is? And don't Baha'is also believe him to be a "manifestation" of God?
     
  5. Good-Ole-Rebel

    Good-Ole-Rebel Well-Known Member

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    God

    Good-Ole-Rebel
     
  6. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    No, Baha'is do not believe Adam was the first human. Humans evolved some 200,000 - 300,000 years ago, they were not created. According to Baha'i beliefs there were many religious cycles that predated the Adamic Cycle of religion but since the art of writing did not exist before Adam, we have no records of those religious cycles.

    We believe Adam was a Prophet because Abdu'l-Baha said that Adam was a Prophet, and that is really the same as a Manifestation of God since Adam was a major Prophet.
     
  7. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    That does not explain how does a decomposed body can come back to life.
    That is in defiance of God's laws. God has no reason to defy His own laws.
     
  8. Good-Ole-Rebel

    Good-Ole-Rebel Well-Known Member

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    I don't know how God does what He does. Do you? What laws?

    Good-Ole-Rebel
     
  9. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I do not know how God does what God does but the Bible does not say that God brings people back from a state of
    Decomposition. That belief came about because of a misinterpretation of scriptures. I believe that Paul was talking about a spiritual resurrection, not a physical one.

    God made the natural laws, and Decomposition is one of the natural laws. Bodies die and decompose and the soul (spirit) then passes from this world into another world. The man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought is what constitutes man.

    I believe that when the soul (spirit) passes from this world into the spiritual world, it takes on a new form comprised of spiritual elements. Since there is nothing physical (e.g., oxygen, water, food) in the spiritual world (heaven) a physical body cannot exist there and is of no use to anyone. I also believe that Jesus is alive in heaven in a spiritual body, not a physical body, and Jesus is with God.
     
  10. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    That is why God sends messengers, not everyone can teach.

    Romans 10:15 New International Reader's Version (NIRV)
    And how can anyone preach without being sent? It is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

    The dangers posed by preachers not sent by God is great.
    That is why you have adulterated translations and mistranslations.
    And that is why you have so many "Christian" religions in the world.

    [​IMG]

    Only God bonafide messengers could in fact bring out the truth from the Bible.
    And only those called by God, listens to the truth and knows what is true from what is false.
    It is not a matter of argument, this is not a contest but it is the hallmarks of having the spirit of the truth.

    1 John 4:6 Good News Translation (GNT)
    But we belong to God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever does not belong to God does not listen to us. This, then, is how we can tell the difference between the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
     
  11. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    Salvation is a free gift indeed, but is for those who are truly His.

    How can on group of people be His when the doctrines being taught in the group are contrary to God's doctrines?
    Then such feeling of being saved is just a feeling because in the end, they are doomed.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    With all due respect, this is what I hear many Christians say about the 'other' Christians.
    They believe their doctrines are the correct ones......
    They believe they are God's special group........
    They believe the other Christians are doomed......

    They are reading the same Bible, yet they believe different things......
    So how is one to know which one is correct?.
     
  13. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    All Christians I have seen believe they are truly His, yet they have nothing to base this upon except their feelings.
    I mean they have no proof that their understanding of the scriptures is any better than anyone else's.
     
  14. Agent

    Agent Member

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    Self righteous people do not name it and claim it into heaven. Then everybody who does what is right in their own eyes goes to heaven.
    rev 22 [12] And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
     
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  15. Good-Ole-Rebel

    Good-Ole-Rebel Well-Known Member

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    The whole point of resurrection has to do with the body. You must reconsider your position.

    (Luke 24:37-39) "But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed hat they had seen a spirit. And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

    (John 20:27) "Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing."

    Yes all natural laws are from God. And He works with them and outside of them. Thus the many miracles that He does. God who created mans body can just as easy raise it again, no matter the destruction it endured. It will certainly be a spiritual body, fitted for the spiritual world, and without sin. But it will be a physical body. Just like Adam and Eve had before the Fall.

    There is no need for a spiritual resurrection.

    Good-Ole-Rebel
     
    #235 Good-Ole-Rebel, Apr 16, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2020
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  16. Hermit Philosopher

    Hermit Philosopher Selflessly here for you

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    Dear Trailblazer,

    If we imagine that at death, we understand our actions in life, through the eyes of others ...or, from what I tend to think of as the “God perspective” (all-encompassing, bird’s-eye view), so that we, as we leave our embodied selves, understand the true impact that our actions in life have had; then, the optimism we have spread, the inspiration we have been, the comfort we have provided, the suffering we have contributed to - all of that, we shall feel. Depending on what we gave, it will be heaven or hell. But I do believe that once we truly have understood (through experiencing them as though of first hand), all souls do find peace in God.

    Humbly,
    Hermit
     
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  17. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Veteran Member

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    You are asking about feelings, are you using feelings to see who is saved? It is entirely possible for someone to receive a free gift on Monday and have bad doctrines on Tuesday. It takes time to learn sound doctrine.

    Biblically, we are saved by receiving a free gift, not by receiving feelings or doctrines.
     
  18. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I believe they will if they want to, but there is no reason to believe 'everyone' will want to be near to God.
     
  19. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I do not believe there is a resurrection, there is simply a passage from one world into another.
    I believe these were just stories that men wrote about Jesus, they ever really happened.
    But even if Jesus rose from the dead that does not mean that anyone else is going to rise from the grave.
    There is no need for a bodily resurrection because the physical body will be of no use in heaven.

    John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

    1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

    John 3:5-7 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

    Jesus did not say that your body must be born again. Where did Jesus EVER talk about rising from the grave? Nowhere. People rising from graves en masse is simply a Church doctrine which is based upon a misinterpretation of the Bible. Jesus said to let the dead bury their dead. Being born of the spirit has nothing to do with the body. It means spiritual rebirth.

    I go by what Jesus said, not by what people wrote about Him decades later. I am not trying to convince you of anything because I realize that Christians are not going to change their position since they have been raised believing these doctrines of the Church.
     
  20. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    If one is correct, the religion is of Christ and if it is of Christ then it is of God.
    On the other hand if a religion isn't then that belongs to another person, man-made and not of God.

    The Bible tells us how an incorrect [false] preacher/religion will behave
    How they will act and how they conduct themselves.

    In the first century Church of Christ, false teachers came from within the church.

    Acts 20:29 New Living Translation (NLT)
    I know that false teachers, like vicious wolves, will come in among you after I leave, not sparing the flock.

    upload_2020-4-16_22-17-50.jpeg

    And this false teachers was aided by the might of the Roman Empire to achieve their apostasy. Which some of them are recorded in the annals of history. Diocletianic Persecution - Wikipedia

    Fast forward to the present time, the Bible describes them as:

    2 Peter 2:1-3 New Living Translation (NLT)
    But there were also false prophets in Israel, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will cleverly teach destructive heresies and even deny the Master who bought them. In this way, they will bring sudden destruction on themselves. Many will follow their evil teaching and shameful immorality. And because of these teachers, the way of truth will be slandered. In their greed they will make up clever lies to get hold of your money. But God condemned them long ago, and their destruction will not be delayed.

    [​IMG]

    Galatians 4:17 New Living Translation (NLT)
    Those false teachers are so eager to win your favor, but their intentions are not good. They are trying to shut you off from me so that you will pay attention only to them.

    So instead of teaching the pure doctrines of the Bible, they will divert your attention to their own stories, their own personal experiences and create the illusion that you be rich beyond your wildest dreams if you show them your money - that is prosperity gospel.

    [​IMG]

    1 Timothy 4:1-3 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
    Now the Spirit manifestly saith, that in the last times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to spirits of error, and doctrines of devils,

    Speaking lies in hypocrisy, and having their conscience seared,

    Forbidding to marry, to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving by the faithful, and by them that have known the truth.

    [​IMG]

    When you see these things [as the Bible records it] - well you can be sure they are not going "upstairs".

    Not all Christians are truly His
    And this fact was mentioned by Jesus Christ himself

    Matthew 7:21-23 New Living Translation (NLT)
    Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’

    [​IMG]

    These are "Christians" who performed many things in Jesus name.
    They have cast out demons, removed unclean spirits on those who were possessed
    They have performed great things in Jesus name and even preached the Bible in his name.
    These people are considered much nearer to heaven in an ordinary "Christian's" eyes
    One may say, they are heaven bound because it seems like Jesus is answering their prayers as they asked for these miracles to be done in Jesus holy name.

    [​IMG]

    But on Judgement Day what will Jesus tell them?
    I never knew you.
    Sad isn't it? From Day 1, Jesus never knew this "Christian"
    Because in fact they were really not really Christian even if they feel very Christian
    So these people are MANY as the Bible says, will not going "upstairs"
     
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