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Does God use a channel ?

Triumph

FREEDOM OF SPEECH
Actually, I find that your viewpoint is not the common understanding.

Can you give a scripture reference to the loosing of the house?
YES, Mark 12:40
Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation."
"Devouring a widows' house" is taking it away from her after her husband dies so denying her right to inheritance.
Luke 20:47
Which devour widows' houses, and for a shew make long prayers: the same shall receive greater damnation."
"the same shall receive greater damnation."

Matthew 23:14
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."

Paul supports the widow's house be given to the brother of the dead husband so the wife's house is "devoured", no longer her house. Paul's prayer is very long with so many chapters filled with lies that oppose what Jesus taught as with pretense Paul claims he supports Jesus when in truth Paul does not, resulting in the fate of the liar Pharisee Paul that is a GREAT damnation by God.

.



Paul statement about women teaching was in reference to church services in as much as custom had women on one side and men on the other creating disorder in the service with other issues too. Asking a question would be done appropriately at home ! 1 Cor 14:35. (Women, at that time, had never learned they way men had).

Have no idea where you get that one would loose their salvation in 1 Peter

Later, he had no problem with women teaching,

Acts 18:26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

Romans 16:3," Greet Priscilla and Aquila, my fellow workers in Christ Jesus."

"And I urge you also, true companion, help those women who labored with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the Book of Life." Philippians 4:3

I think Jesus would have a problem with your traditions of man that would make God's word of none effect
 

Triumph

FREEDOM OF SPEECH
Women working with Paul's gospel that women are born in sin and men are not? That women are under different laws than men because "Eve was deceived" but Adam sinned because Adam knew exactly what he was doing and wanted to disobey Lord God as Adam was "not deceived" but had the DESIRE to not serve God?
That is not the Gospel of Jesus, but it is the gospel of Paul and Paul deceived both men and women to enter Paul's "inferior church" where people do not call Paul a "sinner " for lying about God because Paul taught them that Paul's lies are "glorifying" God.
Paul has a forked tongue as he says all are the same, "one" in Christ but women do not have rights of inheritance but men do have those rights, and women are not allowed to teach men and never to teach their husbands religion, when Jesus specifically said wives ARE to teach their husbands the words of God taught by Jesus and the true 12 Apostles.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Do not quote a lying Pharisee to support what you think the doctrine of Jesus is. Paul had no concept of what doctrine Jesus taught as Paul taught Paul's ideas of
religion in the desert for 3 years even telling us Paul refused to go to Jerusalem to receive holy spirit first which was a requirement by Jesus to do before preaching.
This isn't an argument nor have you supported it by any means.

All you have expressed is your personal dogma by opinion.

2 Peter 3:15
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

The Apostle Peter did not agree with you.
 

Triumph

FREEDOM OF SPEECH
This isn't an argument nor have you supported it by any means.

All you have expressed is your personal dogma by opinion.
Not at all! I support what I have said by scripture, while you prefer to believe mainstream ideas that are wrong.
Jesus said few would walk his path meaning understand what He taught and believe him.
Paul is in the Bible to prove Jesus did not lie when Jesus called Pharisees liars. The main Pharisee in the Bible as example is Paul. Compare what Paul taught to what Jesus taught and see they are not the same doctrine but are opposite. Jesus never selected a man to lead people away from the doctrine he gave his life to support.
Jesus never mentioned the name of Paul, never selected him to be an Apostle either. Paul could never produce his "witnesses" to actually give "witness" to what happened because Paul lied when he said he had witnesses. A person is not a witness unless they testify to what happened to verify it is true and no one supported what Paul said happened because no one was with Paul to see or hear anything. Paul even tells that "light in the desert" story twice with completely opposite details proving the story is a lie because facts never change. Paul could not get his "facts" straight because Paul lied about seeing Jesus in the desert. Jesus even warns us not to believe anyone that says they find him in the desert because the road to Damascus is in the desert and that is where Paul claims he saw/found Jesus.

2 Peter 3:15
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;"

Understand Jesus required all his Apostles and disciples to call ALL men "beloved brothers" even those that trespassed against the words of God as Paul does. Peter had a difficult time doing that and Jesus told him to keep doing it even to 70 X 7 times. The "wisdom" of Paul is learned from his Pharisee father supporting Pharisee beliefs of blood sacrifice for sin. Jesus does not support blood sacrifices and neither does Apostle Peter. Note verse 7, There is NO "brotherly kindness or charity" given to a person killed for not paying the temple money for sin removal. Poor people were being murdered for the same sins a rich person was allowed to live for committing if he paid the temple money.
Pharisees had no "charity" for the poor allowing them to live being forgiven like the rich including all Pharisees were forgiven. Paul even admits he killed disciples of Jesus and calls himself the greatest sinner but Paul never shows any remorse, repentance over what he did or compassion for the widows not wanting them in his church. Paul said he "forgets" about killing those innocent people because to Paul they are not worth thinking about.

The Apostle Peter did not agree with you.
NO, Peter agrees with me, it is people that believe in the pagan ritual of human sacrifice to a God that Peter does not agree with as Peter was willing to fight to keep Jesus off that cross but Jesus refused to have Peter kill anyone over his religious beliefs and Jesus preferred to die himself to prevent that from happening. Jesus was sent by GOD to stop religious wars and stop people dying over their religious beliefs, not be the cause of a war over religion.
Paul has no love or charity for the life of Jesus, Paul wants Jesus dead for opposing Paul's religious traditions that Paul considers wisdom given him from his ancestors back to Abraham. And Paul wants to be exalted with praise for teaching people to hang Jesus on that cross for sins he did not commit.
Paul considers it blasphemy to oppose Paul's religious beliefs in human sacrifice to a God.
 
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Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
;) i didn't find your supportive scriptures... can you try again? You know, where the apostles stopped Paul, told people that he was a liar and that he wasn't preaching the truth?

JUB
and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship that we should go unto the Gentiles, and they unto the circumcision.
KJV
And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
AKJV
and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
LEB
and when James and Cephas and John—those thought to be pillars—acknowledged the grace given to me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, in order that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcision.
TLB
In fact, when Peter, James, and John, who were known as the pillars of the church, saw how greatly God had used me in winning the Gentiles, just as Peter had been blessed so greatly in his preaching to the Jews—for the same God gave us each our special gifts—they shook hands with Barnabas and me and encouraged us to keep right on with our preaching to the Gentiles while they continued their work with the Jews.
 

Triumph

FREEDOM OF SPEECH
This isn't an argument nor have you supported it by any means.

All you have expressed is your personal dogma by opinion.

2 Peter 3:15
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;"
Realize Apostle Peter is making a comparison to his doctrine and the different doctrine Paul preaches. Both men call themselves Apostles of jesus Christ and people that are not knowing what Jesus actually did teach are easily swayed by religious lies about God that Paul calls "glorifying" God. People that accept Paul is an Apostle are not calling Paul a sinner for lying about God and Jesus.
Peter is trying to teach people to not join Paul's "inferior" church. Paul is highly educated knowing different languages and is a forceful brutal man that has killed people for disagreeing with him showing no remorse for it. Apostle Peter is a strong man willing to stand up to Paul's lies but does not have the "poetic" manner that Paul uses to make people believe he is religious when what Paul actually does is pray in pretense to gain power over people. Peter actually does love Jesus and the Words Jesus taught. Paul does not. Paul wants people to love Paul agreeing with his actions even when Paul kills innocent people. That is why some men refused to travel with Paul because they taught different doctrine and disciples of Jesus knew Paul was not remorseful over killing disciples of Jesus.
 

Triumph

FREEDOM OF SPEECH
;) i didn't find your supportive scriptures... can you try again? You know, where the apostles stopped Paul, told people that he was a liar and that he wasn't preaching the truth?

JUB
and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship that we should go unto the Gentiles, and they unto the circumcision.
KJV
And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
AKJV
and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
LEB
and when James and Cephas and John—those thought to be pillars—acknowledged the grace given to me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, in order that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcision.
TLB
In fact, when Peter, James, and John, who were known as the pillars of the church, saw how greatly God had used me in winning the Gentiles, just as Peter had been blessed so greatly in his preaching to the Jews—for the same God gave us each our special gifts—they shook hands with Barnabas and me and encouraged us to keep right on with our preaching to the Gentiles while they continued their work with the Jews.
Paul tries to take credit for teaching Gentiles! Read the Bible and see that Jesus and the true Apostles were teaching and converting Gentiles long before Paul even claimed to be an Apostle! Jesus commanded ALL nations to become water baptized into his religious beliefs and that was when Pharisee Paul was among his cohorts that wanted Jesus stoned to death and disciples that were not killed, thrown in prison. For Paul to imply that the true Apostles were neglecting their duty to Christ by not teaching Gentiles is one more of Paul's huge amount of lies!
Disciple Mark (taught by Peter), baptized people even though he was not an Apostle and no true follower of Jesus rejected a Gentile that wanted to follow Jesus.
What Paul was doing that the true Apostles were not doing, is teaching people to accept being a JEW first, exalting only the Jewish race as the only chosen of God making people spiritually circumcised exalting the father of the lie he is chosen by God, Abraham. Jesus rejected the idea jews were the chosen race and paul makes Gentiles into jews that believe only Jews are the chosen race by God making Gentiles false Jews. LOST sheep scattered by a Benjamin wolf in sheeps clothing that calls himself Paul the Apostle.
Jesus never taught that Jews are the chosen race because Jesus taught all races, all people are beloved of God, none exalted above another. Jesus was sent to the Jews because they were among the worst of the pagan religions that sacrificed humans to their religious beliefs. To save the world, Jesus had to teach that God does not demand war nor approve of human sacrifices. Redemption is not obtained by money or blood sacrifice. War over religion begets war over religion and GOD wanted to stop it.

You keep quoting the liar Paul as support his lies are true!
 
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Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I have never heard that viewpoint before.

I think this makes it more understandable:
PHILLIPS
Because, my dear friends, you have a hope like this before you, I urge you to make certain that such a day would find you at peace with God and man, clean and blameless in his sight. Meanwhile, consider that God’s patience is meant to be man’s salvation, as our dear brother Paul pointed out in his letter to you, written out of the wisdom God gave him. In that letter, as indeed in all his letters, he referred to these matters. There are, of course, some things which are difficult to understand, and which, unhappily, ill-informed and unbalanced people distort (as they do the other scriptures), and bring disaster on their own heads.

Perhaps you are ill-informed and unbalanced, distorting what he is saying?

AMPC 16 Speaking of this as he does in all of his letters. There are some things in those [epistles of Paul] that are difficult to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist and misconstrue to their own utter destruction, just as [they distort and misinterpret] the rest of the Scriptures.

TLB
And remember why he is waiting. He is giving us time to get his message of salvation out to others. Our wise and beloved brother Paul has talked about these same things in many of his letters. Some of his comments are not easy to understand, and there are people who are deliberately stupid, and always demand some unusual interpretation—they have twisted his letters around to mean something quite different from what he meant, just as they do the other parts of the Scripture—and the result is disaster for them.

MSG
So, my dear friends, since this is what you have to look forward to, do your very best to be found living at your best, in purity and peace. Interpret our Master’s patient restraint for what it is: salvation. Our good brother Paul, who was given much wisdom in these matters, refers to this in all his letters, and has written you essentially the same thing. Some things Paul writes are difficult to understand. Irresponsible people who don’t know what they are talking about twist them every which way. They do it to the rest of the Scriptures, too, destroying themselves as they do it.

ET AL.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Paul tries to take credit for teaching Gentiles! Read the Bible and see that Jesus and the true Apostles were teaching and converting Gentiles long before Paul even claimed to be an Apostle! Jesus commanded ALL nations to become water baptized into his religious beliefs and that was when Pharisee Paul was among his cohorts that wanted Jesus stoned to death and disciples that were not killed, thrown in prison. For Paul to imply that the true Apostles were neglecting their duty to Christ by not teaching Gentiles is one more of Paul's huge amount of lies!
Disciple Mark (taught by Peter), baptized people even though he was not an Apostle and no true follower of Jesus rejected a Gentile that wanted to follow Jesus.
What Paul was doing that the true Apostles were not doing, is teaching people to accept being a JEW first, exalting only the Jewish race as the only chosen of God making people spiritually circumcised exalting the father of the lie he is chosen by God, Abraham. Jesus rejected the idea jews were the chosen race and paul makes Gentiles into jews that believe only Jews are the chosen race by God making Gentiles false Jews. LOST sheep scattered by a Benjamin wolf in sheeps clothing that calls himself Paul the Apostle.
Jesus never taught that Jews are the chosen race because Jesus taught all races, all people are beloved of God, none exalted above another. Jesus was sent to the Jews because they were among the worst of the pagan religions that sacrificed humans to their religious beliefs. To save the world, Jesus had to teach that God does not demand war nor approve of human sacrifices. Redemption is not obtained by money or blood sacrifice. War over religion begets war over religion and GOD wanted to stop it.

You keep quoting the liar Paul as support his lies are true!
Don't see any supportive scripture here... just see personal opinion?
 

Triumph

FREEDOM OF SPEECH
I have never heard that viewpoint before.

I think this makes it more understandable:
PHILLIPS
Because, my dear friends, you have a hope like this before you, I urge you to make certain that such a day would find you at peace with God and man, clean and blameless in his sight. Meanwhile, consider that God’s patience is meant to be man’s salvation, as our dear brother Paul pointed out in his letter to you, written out of the wisdom God gave him. In that letter, as indeed in all his letters, he referred to these matters. There are, of course, some things which are difficult to understand, and which, unhappily, ill-informed and unbalanced people distort (as they do the other scriptures), and bring disaster on their own heads.

Perhaps you are ill-informed and unbalanced, distorting what he is saying?

AMPC 16 Speaking of this as he does in all of his letters. There are some things in those [epistles of Paul] that are difficult to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist and misconstrue to their own utter destruction, just as [they distort and misinterpret] the rest of the Scriptures.

TLB
And remember why he is waiting. He is giving us time to get his message of salvation out to others. Our wise and beloved brother Paul has talked about these same things in many of his letters. Some of his comments are not easy to understand, and there are people who are deliberately stupid, and always demand some unusual interpretation—they have twisted his letters around to mean something quite different from what he meant, just as they do the other parts of the Scripture—and the result is disaster for them.

MSG
So, my dear friends, since this is what you have to look forward to, do your very best to be found living at your best, in purity and peace. Interpret our Master’s patient restraint for what it is: salvation. Our good brother Paul, who was given much wisdom in these matters, refers to this in all his letters, and has written you essentially the same thing. Some things Paul writes are difficult to understand. Irresponsible people who don’t know what they are talking about twist them every which way. They do it to the rest of the Scriptures, too, destroying themselves as they do it.

ET AL.
What Paul writes is difficult to understand because Paul lies to glorify God and even admits he lies to glorify God. NO lie glorifies the God that Commands not to lie!
Paul was misleading people from the very beginning of proclaiming he is an Apostle when he gave himself that title and lied saying Jesus made him an Apostle.
If Jesus wanted Paul as an Apostle then Jesus would have chosen Paul after Judas fell from grace by arranging for the murder of Jesus. Jesus rejected Paul knowing Paul would never convert from his Pharisee beliefs of human sacrifice and Paul would always desire the murder of Jesus to exalt Paul's service to his father Abraham. That is why Paul is not found in the house of God after saying he is an Apostle; Paul is blind to truth in the house of Judas, the house of the damned. The church robber is also found in that house of the damned by God, and is found giving blind to truth Paul the "sight" that if Paul is crafty enough Paul can gain power and wealth by lying about God and His son Jesus. That is exactly what Paul does and people are blind to it.

Guile means lies and deceit and that is how Paul gets people into his church by catching their attention and changing their beliefs with lies they are willing to believe is truth.
2 Corinthians 12:16
"But be it so, I did not burden you: nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you with guile." Paul even asks people to forgive his wrongs in his lying to them! THINK, God would never select a man that has to ask for forgiveness for not teaching the truth about God, to teach the truth about God! Jesus never selected a professed, unrepentant because Paul refuses to stop lying, liar to teach truth!
Verse 13 is Paul saying the other churches established by the true Apostles are burdened by Paul's lies about God and refuse to agree with them. The people in Paul's church believe his lies so are not burdened by them but obey them as truth. Paul is an expert deceiver so knows how to sound righteous but refuses to be righteous even though he brags that he is to gain followers. Paul's prayers are pretense. He tells other people not to lie but Paul refuses not to lie.
 
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Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
What Paul writes is difficult to understand because Paul lies to glorify God and even admits he lies to glorify God. NO lie glorifies the God that Commands not to lie!
Paul was misleading people from the very beginning of proclaiming he is an Apostle when he gave himself that title and lied saying Jesus made him an Apostle.
If Jesus wanted Paul as an Apostle then Jesus would have chosen Paul after Judas fell from grace by arranging for the murder of Jesus. Jesus rejected Paul knowing Paul would never convert from his Pharisee beliefs of human sacrifice and Paul would always desire the murder of Jesus to exalt Paul's service to his father Abraham. That is why Paul is not found in the house of God after saying he is an Apostle; Paul is blind to truth in the house of Judas, the house of the damned. The church robber is also found in that house of the damned by God, and is found giving blind to truth Paul the "sight" that if Paul is crafty enough Paul can gain power and wealth by lying about God and His son Jesus. That is exactly what Paul does and people are blind to it.
I find a lot of dogmatic opinion here... but no backup scriptures.

Remember the right hand of fellowship in Acts? Do you know what that means?
 

Triumph

FREEDOM OF SPEECH
Don't see any supportive scripture here... just see personal opinion?

Paul wants people to believe Jesus was sent to be the Jewish Christ, exalting Jews as the chosen of God, fighting for Jews to rule the world which is a requirement by Jews to be the Jewish Christ.
Jesus never required any Gentile to become a Jew and there is no scripture that states Jesus did except by the Pharisee Paul, viper son of Abraham that supports a Jewish Christ, military leader.
Jesus refused to be the Jewish military leader as Jesus claims to be their expected Christ. Jesus was teaching Jews did not understand the meaning of Christ and the lies of Abraham they are circumcised to support are not to be believed as truth. There is no bloodline blessing. There is no "covenant" between Abraham and God.

John chapter 8, Jesus hears the voice of God, not Abraham. Abraham lied when he said God chose him and Abraham rejoices in the day when Jesus is murdered by Abraham's supporters for teaching Abraham is a devil and the father of the lie that God selected him.
The Christ is not a bloodline son of David and not a supporter of the Devil that claims the world is to be ruled by the strongest army led by one of his sons.
God does not desire war, the Devil does.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Paul wants people to believe Jesus was sent to be the Jewish Christ, exalting Jews as the chosen of God, fighting for Jews to rule the world which is a requirement by Jews to be the Jewish Christ.
Jesus never required any Gentile to become a Jew and there is no scripture that states Jesus did except by the Pharisee Paul, viper son of Abraham that supports a Jewish Christ, military leader.
Jesus refused to be the Jewish military leader as Jesus claims to be their expected Christ. Jesus was teaching Jews did not understand the meaning of Christ and the lies of Abraham they are circumcised to support are not to be believed as truth. There is no bloodline blessing. There is no "covenant" between Abraham and God.

John chapter 8, Jesus hears the voice of God, not Abraham. Abraham lied when he said God chose him and Abraham rejoices in the day when Jesus is murdered by Abraham's supporters for teaching Abraham is a devil and the father of the lie that God selected him.
The Christ is not a bloodline son of David and not a supporter of the Devil that claims the world is to be ruled by the strongest army led by one of his sons.
God does not desire war, the Devil does.
Again... a lot of opinions and personal dogma... but you haven't supported your position.

Let's start from scratch:

"Jesus hears the voice of God, not Abraham"

Jesus hears the voice of God... supported documentation: John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Abraham doesn't 't hear the voice of God:

Gen 12:4 So Abram departed, as the Lord had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.

Not supported. Your personal opinion.

When you have a point, always support it with evidence.

When you tell me that Paul is a liar with no scriptural support but I show you two scriptures that show that they did accept Paul, it become evident that you are not supporting your position whereas I did

that's how you do it. :)

You will be a better debater when you do this. :)
 

Triumph

FREEDOM OF SPEECH
I find a lot of dogmatic opinion here... but no backup scriptures.

Remember the right hand of fellowship in Acts? Do you know what that means?

I thought you read the Bible so would know what topics/scriptures I am debating with you.
Where is Paul found after his claiming to be chosen by Jesus?
Luke 6:16
"And Judas the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was THE TRAITOR."
Judas was a person who betrayed a friend, and the principles, Words of God, that Jesus taught.
Judas knew the Jews wanted to kill Jesus and did not care because Judas refused to obey the Commandment from GOD
to not kill an innocent man.

Human sacrifice to a God disobeys the commandment from the Living God, Father of Jesus, to not kill.
God never accepted any blood sacrifice made by religious fanatics like Abraham that invented their own Lord Gods to sacrifice animals and humans to, in order to gain an army to support their claim to a throne by lying saying God desires it.
Those religious liars gained their power over people by claiming God desires war and sacrifice when GOD never did. That is a reason Jesus said "WOE to scribes" because they will write what their military leaders, Lords, demand they write, if it is true or not because they fear for their own lives if they don't.
John 18:2
And Judas also, which betrayed him"
Luke 22:48
But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?"
Judas feigned love of Jesus as a public display when he really does not care Jesus will be killed, just like Paul does not care as Paul wants people to desire the death of Jesus.
Luke 22:3
Then entered Satan into Judas". Acts 1:25 tells us Judas LOST his Apostleship by desiring the death of Jesus. Paul never stopped approving of the death of Jesus. Paul gave himself the title of Apostle that belongs to NO man that desires/ approves of the death of Jesus! The true Apostles and disciples including his blessed mother Mary did not want Jesus on that cross because they knew the Words of God and believed them. DO NOT KILL innocent people!
Paul prays in the HOUSE of JUDAS, church of Judas, prayer that betrays Jesus condemning him to death for sins he did not commit.
Acts 9:11
And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,"
 

Triumph

FREEDOM OF SPEECH
Again... a lot of opinions and personal dogma... but you haven't supported your position.

Let's start from scratch:

"Jesus hears the voice of God, not Abraham"

Jesus hears the voice of God... supported documentation: John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Abraham doesn't 't hear the voice of God:

Gen 12:4 So Abram departed, as the Lord had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.

Not supported. Your personal opinion.

When you have a point, always support it with evidence.

When you tell me that Paul is a liar with no scriptural support but I show you two scriptures that show that they did accept Paul, it become evident that you are not supporting your position whereas I did

that's how you do it. :)

You will be a better debater when you do this. :)
You support the wrathful Jewish God, Lord God and his lies that begin in Genesis 2:4 after the REAL living God, Father of Jesus stops telling us about His creation. Everything is already created and people have been alive for generations IN THE DAY Abraham invented his concept of a Lord God so he could rule as that Lord, and his fake bloodline he claims back to a fictious man and woman Abraham named Adam and Eve.
In John 8, Jesus tells us Abraham is the devil and the father of the lie that claims his sons are Gods. They want to kill Jesus for saying he is God's Son but the sons of Abraham claim to be Born Holy while other people are not and believe they have the right to kill people that disagree with them because Abraham gave his sons that bloodline "right" so they can rule.
Jesus taught no man is a God and the sons of Abraham have no right to kill innocent people.
Jesus calls them hypocrites and vipers because they say they support laws of God like the command "Thou shall not kill" but in reality refuse to support those laws and live in lawlessness with no kindness or mercy in them as they exalt status and money over the value of human life.
Paul refused to support the right to freedom of speech that Jesus stood for and his God given right to life.
A loving Father does not desire the death of his beloved innocent Son but when Satan enters a person, they believe God does.
Again, listen to Jesus, ALL Jews support Abraham and elect Pharisees to teach in their temples to represent their religious beliefs!
Luke 11:43
Woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye love the uppermost seats in the synagogues, and greetings in the markets.

Matthew 23:14
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."

Matthew 23:13
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Matthew 23:15
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Matthew 23:25
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Matthew 23:27
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

WOE to SCRIBES because they wrote the lies of Abraham that Pharisees believe is truth by tradition.
 
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Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I thought you read the Bible so would know what topics/scriptures I am debating with you.
Where is Paul found after his claiming to be chosen by Jesus?
Luke 6:16
"And Judas the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was THE TRAITOR."
Judas was a person who betrayed a friend, and the principles, Words of God, that Jesus taught.
Judas knew the Jews wanted to kill Jesus and did not care because Judas refused to obey the Commandment from GOD
to not kill an innocent man.

Human sacrifice to a God disobeys the commandment from the Living God, Father of Jesus, to not kill.
God never accepted any blood sacrifice made by religious fanatics like Abraham that invented their own Lord Gods to sacrifice animals and humans to, in order to gain an army to support their claim to a throne by lying saying God desires it.
Those religious liars gained their power over people by claiming God desires war and sacrifice when GOD never did. That is a reason Jesus said "WOE to scribes" because they will write what their military leaders, Lords, demand they write, if it is true or not because they fear for their own lives if they don't.
John 18:2
And Judas also, which betrayed him"
Luke 22:48
But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?"
Judas feigned love of Jesus as a public display when he really does not care Jesus will be killed, just like Paul does not care as Paul wants people to desire the death of Jesus.
Luke 22:3
Then entered Satan into Judas". Acts 1:25 tells us Judas LOST his Apostleship by desiring the death of Jesus. Paul never stopped approving of the death of Jesus. Paul gave himself the title of Apostle that belongs to NO man that desires/ approves of the death of Jesus! The true Apostles and disciples including his blessed mother Mary did not want Jesus on that cross because they knew the Words of God and believed them. DO NOT KILL innocent people!
Paul prays in the HOUSE of JUDAS, church of Judas, prayer that betrays Jesus condemning him to death for sins he did not commit.
Acts 9:11
And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,"

Sorry... don't agree..

Where Saul/Paul was before he accepted Jesus as Lord is irrelevant. What Judas did is irrelevant.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. (show me where he said Abraham was a religious fanatic -- or that it is said anywhere in the entire Bible.)

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. - the sacrifice is clear.

As Jesus put it.

[URL='https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2020%3A28&version=KJV']Matthew 20:28

Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.


AMP
just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many [paying the price to set them free from the penalty of sin].”[/URL]
There were many that were called Judas.

1. Judas Maccabaeus. 2. Judas Iscariot. 3. Judas, brother of our Lord who wrote the Book of Jude. 4. Judas (Son or Brother) of James. 5. Judas Leader of a revolt against Rome. 6. Judas surnamed Barsabass, a leading member of the church. 7. Judas a man of Damascus with whom Paul lodged after his conversion.

It could have been Judas the brother or son of James.
 

Triumph

FREEDOM OF SPEECH
Sorry... don't agree..

Where Saul/Paul was before he accepted Jesus as Lord is irrelevant. What Judas did is irrelevant.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. (show me where he said Abraham was a religious fanatic -- or that it is said anywhere in the entire Bible.)

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. - the sacrifice is clear.

As Jesus put it.

[URL='https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2020%3A28&version=KJV']Matthew 20:28

Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.


AMP
just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many [paying the price to set them free from the penalty of sin].”[/URL]
There were many that were called Judas.

1. Judas Maccabaeus. 2. Judas Iscariot. 3. Judas, brother of our Lord who wrote the Book of Jude. 4. Judas (Son or Brother) of James. 5. Judas Leader of a revolt against Rome. 6. Judas surnamed Barsabass, a leading member of the church. 7. Judas a man of Damascus with whom Paul lodged after his conversion.

It could have been Judas the brother or son of James.

Paul teaches the exact opposite doctrine that Jesus taught and people need to see that fact.
Jesus said call no man father because God is the father of us all and Paul denies that truth, disobeying Jesus refusing to support what Jesus taught, by saying Abraham is the father of us all.

Matthew 23:9
"And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."
Yet Paul claims Abraham is the father of us all through his faith/ beliefs that declare a promised by God son of Abraham Christ so all the seed/followers of Abraham are blessed.
Romans 4:16
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Romans 4:12
And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised."
Apostle Peter told Paul that the doctrine of circumcision is not taught by Jesus, it is not supported in their church, yet Paul refuses to let go of his traditional belief in circumcision because it exalts the covenant Abraham claims is from God as truth. After Peter told Paul to not circumcise as a religious belief in Abraham, Paul circumcises a Geek man's son in defiance to what Jesus taught and requires his followers to exalt Abraham's covenant in their spiritual beliefs as a spiritual circumcision.
Paul claims God swore an oath to Abraham and Jesus taught that did not happen. God does not swear oaths.
Luke 1:73, The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, "
Paul said Jesus is the son of Abraham and Jesus declares that is not true, Abraham is not God, no man is a God. Jesus has one Father and that is God.

Paul dishonors Jesus by claiming Jesus Christ is a son of Abraham.
In John 8, Jesus said to Pharisees that would have included Paul because Pharisees were all of the exact same beliefs , "but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me."
When Paul bends the knee to the father of Jesus in Paul's beliefs that is service to Abraham because Paul does not believe in a virgin birth. Paul believes the only way Jesus can be Christ is because joseph fornicated with Mary passing the seed of David to Jesus.

Paul cursed the Angel of God that said Mary will have a virgin birth because "virgin birth" is not Paul's gospel.
Galatians 1:8
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."
Paul and the people that preach Paul's gospel exalt Abraham as the father of Christ.
Jews like Paul bless the kingdom of David the father of their Christ. Paul supports the High Priests belief that "the God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham".
John 10:36
Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"
The Pharisees accuse Jesus of blasphemy for calling himself the Christ teaching the Words of God but saying he is not a son of Abraham.
John 8:56
YOUR father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad." Jesus denies Abraham is HIS father!
If Abraham was the father of Jesus then Jesus would have said, OUR father Abraham. Jesus, the Son of God, rejects the liar Abraham and there is no blood of David or Abraham in him so Abraham is not the father of Jesus Christ.
Matthew 3:9
And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham."
This is saying a stone has as much life in it as a follower/son of Abraham. They have no everlasting life as they stone people to death for not believing the lies they believe are truth. People follow Abraham out of fear for their own life if they do not believe and serve his lies.
 
Last edited:

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Paul teaches the exact opposite doctrine that Jesus taught and people need to see that fact.
Jesus said call no man father because God is the father of us all and Paul denies that truth, disobeying Jesus refusing to support what Jesus taught, by saying Abraham is the father of us all.

Matthew 23:9
"And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."
Yet Paul claims Abraham is the father of us all through his faith/ beliefs that declare a promised by God son of Abraham Christ so all the seed/followers of Abraham are blessed.
Romans 4:16
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Romans 4:12
And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised."
Apostle Peter told Paul that the doctrine of circumcision is not taught by Jesus, it is not supported in their church, yet Paul refuses to let go of his traditional belief in circumcision because it exalts the covenant Abraham claims is from God as truth. After Peter told Paul to not circumcise as a religious belief in Abraham, Paul circumcises a Geek man's son in defiance to what Jesus taught and requires his followers to exalt Abraham's covenant in their spiritual beliefs as a spiritual circumcision.
Paul claims God swore an oath to Abraham and Jesus taught that did not happen. God does not swear oaths.
Luke 1:73, The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, "
Paul said Jesus is the son of Abraham and Jesus declares that is not true, Abraham is not God, no man is a God. Jesus has one Father and that is God.

Paul dishonors Jesus by claiming Jesus Christ is a son of Abraham.
In John 8, Jesus said to Pharisees that would have included Paul because Pharisees were all of the exact same beliefs , "but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me."
When Paul bends the knee to the father of Jesus in Paul's beliefs that is service to Abraham because Paul does not believe in a virgin birth. Paul believes the only way Jesus can be Christ is because joseph fornicated with Mary passing the seed of David to Jesus.

Paul cursed the Angel of God that said Mary will have a virgin birth because "virgin birth" is not Paul's gospel.
Galatians 1:8
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."
Paul and the people that preach Paul's gospel exalt Abraham as the father of Christ.
Jews like Paul bless the kingdom of David the father of their Christ. Paul supports the High Priests belief that "the God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham".
John 10:36
Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"
The Pharisees accuse Jesus of blasphemy for calling himself the Christ teaching the Words of God but saying he is not a son of Abraham.
John 8:56
YOUR father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad." Jesus denies Abraham is HIS father!
If Abraham was the father of Jesus then Jesus would have said, OUR father Abraham. Jesus, the Son of God, rejects the liar Abraham and there is no blood of David or Abraham in him so Abraham is not the father of Jesus Christ.
Matthew 3:9
And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham."
This is saying a stone has as much life in it as a follower/son of Abraham. They have no everlasting life as they stone people to death for not believing the lies they believe are truth. People follow Abraham out of fear for their own life if they do not believe and serve his lies.
Ok... I think we are going to get nowhere very fast.

Mark 11:10
Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest.

Luke 1:32
He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Jesus apparently had no problem with this statement. You need to dig deeper and find out what he meant about calling someone Father vs. father.

Even Jesus used it:
Luke 15:11-13
King James Version

11 And he said, A certain man had two sons:

12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.

13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
 

Triumph

FREEDOM OF SPEECH
Sorry... don't agree..

Where Saul/Paul was before he accepted Jesus as Lord is irrelevant. What Judas did is irrelevant.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. (show me where he said Abraham was a religious fanatic -- or that it is said anywhere in the entire Bible.)

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. - the sacrifice is clear.

As Jesus put it.

[URL='https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2020%3A28&version=KJV']Matthew 20:28

Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.


AMP
just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many [paying the price to set them free from the penalty of sin].”[/URL]
There were many that were called Judas.

1. Judas Maccabaeus. 2. Judas Iscariot. 3. Judas, brother of our Lord who wrote the Book of Jude. 4. Judas (Son or Brother) of James. 5. Judas Leader of a revolt against Rome. 6. Judas surnamed Barsabass, a leading member of the church. 7. Judas a man of Damascus with whom Paul lodged after his conversion.

It could have been Judas the brother or son of James.

Why do you not believe Jesus is the Shepherd? Jesus never called himself a Lamb because he is not one! Jesus was sent to teach people that God does not want humans slaughtered like lambs over religious beliefs.
Jesus praised John the Baptist for teaching God only accepts water baptism for repentance of sin so people are not killed over false man made religious laws spawned by the lies of Abraham ( the father of the lie he is chosen by God) and Moses (the unrepentant murderer that remained in hiding from justice for his crimes as Moses destroyed the tablets that contained the Commands of God that said Do NOT Kill).
The Lamb that removes sin is John the Baptist introducing himself to the Son of God, his Shepherd. Jesus commanded people be water baptized but did no baptisms himself so people would know that salvation, everlasting life, is not only by sin "removal", repentance of sins, but also by understanding the doctrine, parables and prophecy Jesus taught given only to Jesus by God.
The Lost Lamb slain from the foundation/ beginning of his lies of creation inventing a false Lord God and a false religion that does not serve the God that created all life on Earth, is Abraham.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Why do you not believe Jesus is the Shepherd?
The Lost Lamb slain from the foundation/ beginning of his lies of creation inventing a false Lord God and a false religion that does not serve the God that created all life on Earth, is Abraham.

Just curious, all that you have shared is very strange and, quite frankly, I've never encountered before in my 40 years of knowing Jesus as Lord...

What is your story? Your faith background?
 
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