Does God require us to love ourselves?

[Shakeel]

There are many definitions of love and many different kinds of love.
I do not fear my own death, I fear death of those I love and the separation that ensues.
I find that nonbelievers do not fear death, it is believers who fear death. Have you had a different experience?
Why do Muslims praise Allah when someone dies?

I think everyone fears death and those who claim otherwise are mostly liars, maybe a few exception among them, but I doubt it.

We praise Allah at all times and on all occasions. We have been commanded to do so, it is good for us and it guards against arrogance and ingratitude, for instance.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

Does God require us to love ourselves?

I don’t know anywhere in scriptures of my religion where it says we have to love ourselves. I don’t know if it says that in the Bible or any other religious scriptures.

I believe that we should at least like ourselves but I do not believe we have to love ourselves because I consider that narcissistic. I do not care what psychologists say about how we should love ourselves since I go by what religion teaches. I do not want to love myself because I consider that selfish. I want to love God and other people and animals, but why do I have to love myself?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
What made me think to post this is that sometimes I hate myself over things that really don’t matter at all. I do not really hate myself, I just feel guilty about something I did, but I feel even guiltier about things I am not doing. I realize that it is because I feel guilty that I hate myself, as guilt and self-hate are very much connected. When I get like this I will talk to myself out loud and tell myself I do not even deserve to live or even breathe air. It is possible these feelings are some relics from my childhood, as both my parents had psychological issues and addiction problems and the children were emotionally abandoned.

I do not remember much of my early childhood, just a few snapshots, and it is possible there was some abuse and I have repressed memories. I worked through my childhood issues in counseling and 12 step groups for over 15 years so I came to a point where I was not going to benefit from any more counseling. The counselors don’t think I need counseling because I am very self-aware and know what I need to do to take care of my problems, yet the feelings sometimes persist. I should mention I do have PTSD from the sudden death of my father when I was 12 years old, so that could be the main problem, as I remember feeling normal and even happy before that. After that my mother started drinking heavily and my sister and I started taking street drugs during our teenage years.

In the distant past I blamed my husband for everything. More recently when in a discussion with my husband I will blame him, but then I realize that it is me that I blame. That is not to say there are not things he does or does not do that bother me a lot, but he has never been hateful or mean to me the way I am sometimes am towards him. Sometimes I hate him, but I know why I hate him, because I am worried he is going to die like my father did and leave me all alone. I don’t hate him because he won’t mow the yard or clean the house; I hate him because he won’t take care of his health. So in my mind I am trying to accept that he might die and it is better to hate him than to love him and feel the pain of loss when he dies.

Death hangs over me like a pall; not my own death, but the death of those I love. I feel like everyone has died and left me alone, and that is not just a feeling because that is what has really happened. First my father died and then my sister and then my mother, so all I have left besides my husband is a brother I never talk to, and he could be dead for all I know. Everyone I love has died, except my husband and the few cats I have l left.

I often wonder about this Bible verse.

Job 1:21 King James Version

21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.

Why does it say “blessed be the name of the Lord”? Why is the Lord’s name blessed given all that the Lord takes away from us? I just don't get it.

Dear Trailblazer

I am glad to hear that you know you do not feel like this always; that is good in many ways, especially because it shows you that happiness, like unhappiness, is an attitude.

I do not say this in a belittling way. What I mean is that your past and your present are there, both when you feel at peace and when you do not. The difference lies, not in what is out there, but in what parts (of your past and present) you happen to be focussing on at the time.

Our state of mind is a perspective. It is based on the information that we pick out. When we are down, we are concentrating on the bad things that are around us, in our past, in our imagined future. When we are happy, those things are still there, but we are focussed on the good that also always is there too.

This is of course obvious. Still, at times we do forget.


Humbly
Hermit

 

[ChristineM]

I think everyone fears death and those who claim otherwise are mostly liars, maybe a few exception among them, but I doubt it.

I do not lie.

 

[Vee]

I believe love starts from within. If you can't love yourself it will be very hard to love someone else. Others have brought up Mark 12:31 so I'm not going to repeat that.
My belief is that when we work on loving ourselves, even though we're not perfect and we know we're going to make mistakes here and there, we will be better equipped to have a loving attitude toward others.

 

[Windwalker]

Mark 12:30-31
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

No, we are not commanded to love ourselves. "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself" means to love your neighbor as much as you love yourself, meaning not to love yourself more than you love your neighbor.

I think I failed to communicate my intention in my response to you. I was deeply moved by your post, and I was not intending to be confrontational or accusative in any sense of the word. I was intending to be helpful. I apologize that I came off otherwise to you.

To clarify what I what I meant above here, my post did not say to love yourself more than your neighbor. To love ourselves more would be "narcissistic" in nature, or perhaps a better word to use would be self-facing or self-focused, which is the nature of the ego-self. Scripture says in the verse we both quoted, to love your neighbor as yourself. That means equally so.

We are to love others with that same love of yourself, that we receive from God Himself. That's why it is the second commandment. Loving God is the first, as God is the Source of that Love. The second commandment is wholly dependent upon the first. The realization of that Love within ourselves, and for ourselves, comes from God - not from ourselves.

To give a personal example of what this means. The first time I experienced that Love, was when I was 18. I had a near-death type experience where I experienced a confrontation with the Infinite. The experience was that of absolute, unconditional love, where who I was as a person was absolutely seen, utterly exposed with nothing hidden in shadows, yet fully accepted and loved despite how I may have seen myself or believed about myself. Everything was naked and bare before the Absolute, which "saw" me as I was, and despite that, fully embraced me as I was in all my shortcomings and self-loathings and shames.

That led to rivers of tears gushing out of me, releasing everything I had been holding inside, in a torrent of release. That led to unimaginable Joy and Love, flowing into me from the whole world, and then gushing out of me to the world in return.

THAT, to me is exactly what the two commandments signify. "Love God" first, surrender all you are to that Love and receive that Love to yourself, embracing yourself as God sees you; ie, "as you Love yourself" as the verse says. That means, with God's Love; nor with your ego's idea of love of self. From there, you now naturally, overflow that Infinite Love that wells up from within you out to others: "Love your neighbor as yourself", with that same Love that you receive from God.

That same overflow of abundance, is accessible in every moment of every day of our lives - if we avail ourselves of it. I had, and still do, deny that to myself through the cares of this world, living in the ego-self instead. This is the normal human condition. But it is not the limits of what we may have, and that is the whole purpose of the teachings of the great spiritual masters. "I have come that you may have life, and life more abundantly," said Jesus.

Self-loathing, is self-facing, or self-focused. I used the word narcissistic, but did not intend for that to be confused with excessive self-love in a clinical sense of the word as a disorder, but rather the natural ego-self condition of the human being in its "fallen" state, so to speak. I'll use the word ego-self, or self-focused instead. That is something common to everyone, and what the spiritual path is meant to overcome so that we may indeed "love others as ourselves", as Jesus and scripture teaches. We are to love ourselves, with the love that God loves us. That is the teachings of Jesus.

I hope this clarifies what I had intended to communicate.

 

[1213]

Does God require us to love ourselves?

I don’t know anywhere in scriptures of my religion where it says we have to love ourselves. I don’t know if it says that in the Bible or any other religious scriptures....

...Job 1:21 King James Version

21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.

Why does it say “blessed be the name of the Lord”?...

Some translations, like Finnish 1938 translation says that “may God’s name be thanked” and I understand that the meaning is to thank God for what He gave.

And about the loving oneself, I think everyone loves himself, therefore no need to command that.

 

[Gargovic Malkav]

To love yourself is NOT narcissism. To hate yourself is narcissism.

Do you mean with this that narcissists tend to have unreasonable demands/expectations, and are because of that too hard on themselves in a way?

 

[Trailblazer]

I think everyone fears death and those who claim otherwise are mostly liars, maybe a few exception among them, but I doubt it.

I would not be so certain of that as some people long for death that they may be released from this world which is a storehouse of suffering.....

Fear and anxiety are not the same. I have anxiety about death since I do not know what is on the other side, but I do not have any fear of death because I trust what Baha'u'llah wrote about death so I know the next life will be far better than anything we can even imagine.

32: O SON OF THE SUPREME! I have made death a messenger of joy to thee. Wherefore dost thou grieve? I made the light to shed on thee its splendor. Why dost thou veil thyself therefrom?
The Hidden Words of Baha'u'llah

We praise Allah at all times and on all occasions. We have been commanded to do so, it is good for us and it guards against arrogance and ingratitude, for instance.

That is a good practice and I wholly agree with it.

 

[Trailblazer]

I do not lie.

I know, and I believe you when you say you are not afraid of death.
I don't know any atheists who are afraid of death. What is there to be afraid of if nothing exists after death?

 

[ChristineM]

I know, and I believe you when you say you are not afraid of death.
I don't know any atheists who are afraid of death. What is there to be afraid of if nothing exists after death?

There is plenty that exists after death, every single atom will continue, some will help create other life. Maybe in the far distant future some may help created a new sun to shine life giving light on a new planet. Ain't your atoms doing something useful a cool thing that thermodynamics gives us?

But this electro-chemical consciousness will be gone and thats no loss to the universe.

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe love starts from within. If you can't love yourself it will be very hard to love someone else. Others have brought up Mark 12:31 so I'm not going to repeat that.
My belief is that when we work on loving ourselves, even though we're not perfect and we know we're going to make mistakes here and there, we will be better equipped to have a loving attitude toward others.

Thanks for sharing. I do not believe it is necessary to love ourselves in order to love others. If it had been necessary Jesus would have told us to love ourselves, but He didn't. I believe there is a reason He didn't, that reason being that most people already love themselves too much.

I am not saying we should hate ourselves, I believe we should accept ourselves as we are and strive to become better people all throughout the course of our lives. However, I believe that self-dissatisfaction is a sign of progress because then we know there is a lot more work to be done on our character.

 

[Trailblazer]

There is plenty that exists after death, every single atom will continue, some will help create other life. Maybe in the far distant future some may help created a new sun to shine life giving light on a new planet. Ain't your atoms doing something useful a cool thing that thermodynamics gives us?

Yes, I believe that will happen to our bodies, but are bodies are not who we are, our soul is who we are.

But this electro-chemical consciousness will be gone and thats no loss to the universe.

I believe that consciousness will continue since it is the soul that is responsible for consciousness, and the soul is eternal.

 

[Trailblazer]

I think I failed to communicate my intention in my response to you. I was deeply moved by your post, and I was not intending to be confrontational or accusative in any sense of the word. I was intending to be helpful. I apologize that I came off otherwise to you.

To clarify what I what I meant above here, my post did not say to love yourself more than your neighbor. To love ourselves more would be "narcissistic" in nature, or perhaps a better word to use would be self-facing or self-focused, which is the nature of the ego-self. Scripture says in the verse we both quoted, to love your neighbor as yourself. That means equally so.

Thanks for clarifying and no offense taken. I did not think that you meant say to love yourself more than your neighbor. I knew that you meant to love your neighbor as yourself, equally so.

We are to love others with that same love of yourself, that we receive from God Himself. That's why it is the second commandment. Loving God is the first, as God is the Source of that Love. The second commandment is wholly dependent upon the first. The realization of that Love within ourselves, and for ourselves, comes from God - not from ourselves.

I do not believe that the second commandment is dependent upon the first because I believe we can love God even of we do not love ourselves. Moreover, the second commandment does not say that we have to love ourselves before we can love other people. I believe we can love our neighbor even if we cannot love ourselves, for whatever reason. I am going to re-post the part of that article that explains what I am trying to say.

In fact, some people think Jesus said you must love yourself before you can love others. They support this idea by pointing to Jesus’ command to “love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 22:39). They think “as yourself” means you cannot love others unless you first love yourself. As you will see, that’s not what Jesus was saying.

In this passage, Jesus said there are two great commandments, one of which is to “love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 22:34-40).

If we say we can’t love others until we love ourselves, we are essentially saying Jesus gave us a third commandment. In fact, without realizing it, we are suggesting that to love yourself is the second greatest commandment, for we are saying it comes before the commandment to love others. We are saying that loving ourselves is a precondition to loving other people.

Notice that Jesus said, “All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments” (Matthew 22:40). He didn’t say “on these three commandments.”

Did Jesus say to love yourself first?

Jesus simply said to love others “as yourself.” He didn’t say to love others after you love yourself. That’s just something people read into the passage.

Loving myself: Jesus did not say to love yourself first. Loving yourself misses his main point. | Doug Britton Books

THAT, to me is exactly what the two commandments signify. "Love God" first, surrender all you are to that Love and receive that Love to yourself, embracing yourself as God sees you; ie, "as you Love yourself" as the verse says. That means, with God's Love; nor with your ego's idea of love of self. From there, you now naturally, overflow that Infinite Love that wells up from within you out to others: "Love your neighbor as yourself", with that same Love that you receive from God.

That is all well and good for people who can receive God's Love; God is the Source but that does not help people who are not tapped into that Source, for whatever reason.

5: O SON OF BEING! Love Me, that I may love thee. If thou lovest Me not, My love can in no wise reach thee. Know this, O servant. The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 4

So even if that Love is available from God, not all people can receive that love from God for various reasons. It is not necessarily that they do not want God's love. I find it offensive that anyone would judge a person just because that person is unable to receive God's love because nobody can know another man's life unless he has walked a mile in his moccasins.

Obviously, if I could see myself as God sees me I would love myself, but I cannot see myself as God sees me because I cannot see through the Eyes of God.

We are to love ourselves, with the love that God loves us. That is the teachings of Jesus.

No, a commandment to love ourselves is not the teachings of Jesus unless you can find it in the New Testament.
Can you cite any verses where Jesus tells us to love ourselves?

 

[Trailblazer]

And about the loving oneself, I think everyone loves himself, therefore no need to command that.

True, and that is no doubt why Jesus never commanded it.
Loving oneself does not mean having a positive self-image, it means caring about yourself, and since most people care more about themselves than other people that is why Jesus said "And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. (Matthew 22:39)

 

[Clara Tea]

Does God require us to love ourselves?

I don’t know anywhere in scriptures of my religion where it says we have to love ourselves. I don’t know if it says that in the Bible or any other religious scriptures.

I believe that we should at least like ourselves but I do not believe we have to love ourselves because I consider that narcissistic. I do not care what psychologists say about how we should love ourselves since I go by what religion teaches. I do not want to love myself because I consider that selfish. I want to love God and other people and animals, but why do I have to love myself?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
What made me think to post this is that sometimes I hate myself over things that really don’t matter at all. I do not really hate myself, I just feel guilty about something I did, but I feel even guiltier about things I am not doing. I realize that it is because I feel guilty that I hate myself, as guilt and self-hate are very much connected. When I get like this I will talk to myself out loud and tell myself I do not even deserve to live or even breathe air. It is possible these feelings are some relics from my childhood, as both my parents had psychological issues and addiction problems and the children were emotionally abandoned.

I do not remember much of my early childhood, just a few snapshots, and it is possible there was some abuse and I have repressed memories. I worked through my childhood issues in counseling and 12 step groups for over 15 years so I came to a point where I was not going to benefit from any more counseling. The counselors don’t think I need counseling because I am very self-aware and know what I need to do to take care of my problems, yet the feelings sometimes persist. I should mention I do have PTSD from the sudden death of my father when I was 12 years old, so that could be the main problem, as I remember feeling normal and even happy before that. After that my mother started drinking heavily and my sister and I started taking street drugs during our teenage years.

In the distant past I blamed my husband for everything. More recently when in a discussion with my husband I will blame him, but then I realize that it is me that I blame. That is not to say there are not things he does or does not do that bother me a lot, but he has never been hateful or mean to me the way I am sometimes am towards him. Sometimes I hate him, but I know why I hate him, because I am worried he is going to die like my father did and leave me all alone. I don’t hate him because he won’t mow the yard or clean the house; I hate him because he won’t take care of his health. So in my mind I am trying to accept that he might die and it is better to hate him than to love him and feel the pain of loss when he dies.

Death hangs over me like a pall; not my own death, but the death of those I love. I feel like everyone has died and left me alone, and that is not just a feeling because that is what has really happened. First my father died and then my sister and then my mother, so all I have left besides my husband is a brother I never talk to, and he could be dead for all I know. Everyone I love has died, except my husband and the few cats I have l left.

I often wonder about this Bible verse.

Job 1:21 King James Version

21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.

Why does it say “blessed be the name of the Lord”? Why is the Lord’s name blessed given all that the Lord takes away from us? I just don't get it.

Weddings are holy, and headstones of the American family. Statues erected to the Father, the Son, and Holy Spigit, prove worship. Holy gridlock is about loving another, and marks the day when we stop loving ourselves and will accept no other hand as substitute. Marriage is a lifelong reminder of guilt.

Few remember early childhood--many were younger then.

When your dad died young, stress tore your family apart...it's normal to feel stress.

Psychological projection - Wikipedia

Blaming another is called "projection" (please see the link above).

You want to hate your husband now, to lessen the pain if he dies. But, you must love him until he dies (to get the most love out of the relationship). Everyone (even infants) are going to die eventually. The trick is to live life to the fullest until we do.

Make sure that we prepare for that moment (death). Don't fear it, prepare for it. (wills, trusts, Pay on Death bank accounts, life insurance, burial plots, and instructions to our spouse about how to fill out forms during the trying times of a funeral). Make sure that notes go with wills and trusts to explain unusual bequests so a judge can understand).

If you only had one day (today) until your husband dies, do you want to spend it falling out of love with him? Or, would you rather love him to the fullest (though it will hurt when he dies)?

Some outlive their friends, and find themselves alone. They must make new friends.

We come into this world naked, but really freak out mom when, as adults, we get naked and try to return to the womb. [Job 1:21].

 

[Clara Tea]

I think everyone fears death and those who claim otherwise are mostly liars, maybe a few exception among them, but I doubt it.

We praise Allah at all times and on all occasions. We have been commanded to do so, it is good for us and it guards against arrogance and ingratitude, for instance.

'Devout' Saudis partying on booze and drugs while Karl Andree awaits flogging

How, then, do you explain the arrogance, ingratitude, of members of the royal family of Saudi Arabia? (link above). Is morality only for the poor and powerless? Should we follow immoral leaders? Does power corrupt?

Saudis gone wild

22,000 Saudi royals, 7,000 Saudi princes (1/1,000 Saudis is royal). Many royals have multiple wives and kids by many women. "hypocrisy is a common human flaw and the Saudis do not escape it" ...."arrive with a literal chest full of dollars — $20 million in $100 notes. And when your mission is to spend all of it." (link above).

Is it even possible to mention corruption of the Saudi royal family without being severely tortured or killed?

The Ongoing Battle Against ‘Honour Killings’

WikiLeaks cables: Saudi princes throw parties boasting drink, drugs and sex

- INVESTIGATION INTO ABDUCTIONS OF AMERICAN CHILDREN TO SAUDI ARABIA

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Does God require us to love ourselves?

I don’t know anywhere in scriptures of my religion where it says we have to love ourselves. I don’t know if it says that in the Bible or any other religious scriptures.

I believe that we should at least like ourselves but I do not believe we have to love ourselves because I consider that narcissistic. I do not care what psychologists say about how we should love ourselves since I go by what religion teaches. I do not want to love myself because I consider that selfish. I want to love God and other people and animals, but why do I have to love myself?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
What made me think to post this is that sometimes I hate myself over things that really don’t matter at all. I do not really hate myself, I just feel guilty about something I did, but I feel even guiltier about things I am not doing. I realize that it is because I feel guilty that I hate myself, as guilt and self-hate are very much connected. When I get like this I will talk to myself out loud and tell myself I do not even deserve to live or even breathe air. It is possible these feelings are some relics from my childhood, as both my parents had psychological issues and addiction problems and the children were emotionally abandoned.

I do not remember much of my early childhood, just a few snapshots, and it is possible there was some abuse and I have repressed memories. I worked through my childhood issues in counseling and 12 step groups for over 15 years so I came to a point where I was not going to benefit from any more counseling. The counselors don’t think I need counseling because I am very self-aware and know what I need to do to take care of my problems, yet the feelings sometimes persist. I should mention I do have PTSD from the sudden death of my father when I was 12 years old, so that could be the main problem, as I remember feeling normal and even happy before that. After that my mother started drinking heavily and my sister and I started taking street drugs during our teenage years.

In the distant past I blamed my husband for everything. More recently when in a discussion with my husband I will blame him, but then I realize that it is me that I blame. That is not to say there are not things he does or does not do that bother me a lot, but he has never been hateful or mean to me the way I am sometimes am towards him. Sometimes I hate him, but I know why I hate him, because I am worried he is going to die like my father did and leave me all alone. I don’t hate him because he won’t mow the yard or clean the house; I hate him because he won’t take care of his health. So in my mind I am trying to accept that he might die and it is better to hate him than to love him and feel the pain of loss when he dies.

Death hangs over me like a pall; not my own death, but the death of those I love. I feel like everyone has died and left me alone, and that is not just a feeling because that is what has really happened. First my father died and then my sister and then my mother, so all I have left besides my husband is a brother I never talk to, and he could be dead for all I know. Everyone I love has died, except my husband and the few cats I have l left.

I often wonder about this Bible verse.

Job 1:21 King James Version

21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.

Why does it say “blessed be the name of the Lord”? Why is the Lord’s name blessed given all that the Lord takes away from us? I just don't get it.

I don't think it is healthy to focus so much on ourselves.

We should be more selfless rather than self-centered - in my opinion.

And death is a gift of God. It is the next step in our eternal journey.

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't think it is healthy to focus so much on ourselves.

We should be more selfless rather than self-centered - in my opinion.

I fully agree.

40: O MY SERVANT! Free thyself from the fetters of this world, and loose thy soul from the prison of self. Seize thy chance, for it will come to thee no more.
The Hidden Words of Baha'u'llah

And death is a gift of God. It is the next step in our eternal journey.

I fully agree. It is the death of others that is so difficult for me, not my own death.

32: O SON OF THE SUPREME! I have made death a messenger of joy to thee. Wherefore dost thou grieve? I made the light to shed on thee its splendor. Why dost thou veil thyself therefrom?
The Hidden Words of Baha'u'llah

 

[ChristineM]

I believe that consciousness will continue since it is the soul that is responsible for consciousness, and the soul is eternal.

And i don't.

 

[Shakeel]

have multiple wives and kids by many women.

Men can have up to 4 wives in Islam.

next life will be far better than anything we can even imagine.

How can you feel sure you'll fare well?