Does God Have Free Will?

[Unveiled Artist]

tl;dr

Huh?

 

[RedDragon94]

Does God's perfection require him or her to act in certain ways? If so does this mean that God's will is not free?

A person can be required to act in certain ways in certain situations and still be able to do as they see fit.

 

[Politesse]

A person can be required to act in certain ways in certain situations and still be able to do as they see fit.

How?

 

[whirlingmerc]

The Bible claims God does whatever he pleases, so yes God has free will

Job 23:13
“But he stands alone, and who can oppose him? He does whatever he pleases.

Psalm 115:3
Our God is in heaven; he does whatever pleases him.

Psalm 135:6
The Lord does whatever pleases him, in the heavens and on the earth, in the seas and all their depths.

With man we are limited by ability and desire
so man must lean on God to help with both

Psalm 119 says both the prayer and commitment forms of 'incline my heart to do your will' and "I will incline my heart to do your will'

 

[whirlingmerc]

I think having free will doesn't mean being arbitrary. God is not free to be good today and evil tomorrow or to be truthful today and lie tomorrow
that would be arbitrary.

God is free and able to be consistent with Himself and his desires. God is good and will ultimately do the highest good for the highest reasons

 

[whirlingmerc]

God has a free will and does whatever He pleases
What makes God tick? God's passion is God's glory.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

If god has free will, can he be around sin if he wanted to without, in a Christian view, being incarnation of Jesus Christ?

If god had free will, would his justice be justified if he let the people he killed for disobedience live because killing is in itself wrong no matter who holds the sword-god or not?

If god has free will, can god sin or be tempted to sin?

If god can be tempted to sin, by who and how? What type of temptation or how does he feel when he is tempted by someone who is not equal to himself?

If god has free will, can he change his nature (rather than behavior) so that he has no ability to love?

If god has free will, can he be subordinate to his creation? (Not like Abraham where he changed his mind and didn't kill all the people in Gomora), but actually be a slave to his own creation?

If god has free will, can he change himself to be something that he is not?

Does god have free will or does he, like us, have a true nature with whom each of us are identified by? If he is identified as a creator and we are not, does god have the ability to relate to us as equals without being god in flesh?

 

[Apologes]

God is certainly described as having free will by all the major religions. After all, free will is taught as coming from God. (Image of God and all..)

On a purely logical view, do even we have a free will?

 

[Kelloggs]

I was recently in discussion with a nice Christian gentleman who assured me that God required blood payment for sin. I asked whether God could simply choose to forgive the debt. The God of Scripture, after all, demanded that we forgive each other our debts. My tutor informed me that God could not forgive any debt without blood sacrifice, because He has perfect honor, and perfect honor cannot abide sin without repayment.

Does God's perfection require him or her to act in certain ways? If so does this mean that God's will is not free? It seems to me that a person with free will could indeed forgive their neighbor of any debt, provided they desired to do so.

"..Christian gentleman who assured me that God required blood payment for sin.."
1. My answer: God's "requirement" for blood payment was in a distant past cultural context.

"..I asked whether God could simply choose to forgive the debt. The God of Scripture, after all, demanded that we forgive each other our debts. My tutor informed me that God could not forgive any debt without blood sacrifice, because He has perfect honor, and perfect honor cannot abide sin without repayment.."
2. My answer:
Just to complete your understanding:
Hebrew 10:12-14 NRSV
"But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, “he sat down at the right hand of God,” and since then has been waiting “until his enemies would be made a footstool for his feet.” For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are sanctified."
John 11:25-26 NRSV
"Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life.Those who believe in me, even though they die, will live, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?”"

"Does God's perfection require him or her to act in certain ways?"
3. My answer: If you read throughout the canonised Old and New Testament, you can see God's particular characteristic, a certain kind of behaviour and obedience are also demanded from his people.

"If so does this mean that God's will is not free?"
4. My answer: How do you even understand God's total will?
Isaiah 55:8-9 NRSV
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways my ways, says the Lord.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts."

" It seems to me that a person with free will could indeed forgive their neighbor of any debt, provided they desired to do so"
5. My answer: correct.



Hope it helps,
K

 

[Skwim]

God is certainly described as having free will by all the major religions. After all, free will is taught as coming from God. (Image of God and all..)

On a purely logical view, do even we have a free will?

No.


.

 

[syo]

god does have free will, and so do we. how can he forgive us, if we refuse forgiveness?

 

[whirlingmerc]

God has free will and will is tied to the strongest inclination of a person's heart
A person choosing according to the strongest inclination of their heart
We have fallen hearts so absolute power with no constraints will let us sink under the weight of fallen broken desires.... not so with God...

In the case of Jonah, God exhibited considerable will over Jonah who was supposed to be near to Him, creation and even people far from Him
Jonah - a worldview in 50 sentences or less

 

[Faithofchristian]

I was recently in discussion with a nice Christian gentleman who assured me that God required blood payment for sin. I asked whether God could simply choose to forgive the debt. The God of Scripture, after all, demanded that we forgive each other our debts. My tutor informed me that God could not forgive any debt without blood sacrifice, because He has perfect honor, and perfect honor cannot abide sin without repayment.

Does God's perfection require him or her to act in certain ways? If so does this mean that God's will is not free? It seems to me that a person with free will could indeed forgive their neighbor of any debt, provided they desired to do so.

To answer your question, yes God does have free will, alot of Christians will say that God knows everything before you do anything.
But yet these Christians will also tell you, that God gave them free will, If free will came from God, then logically God would also have free will correct.

Then since God has free will, that means that God can choose not to know before things happens.correct.

Now to your question, God does forgive us our debt in breaking his law, if not then Christ Jesus gave his life for nothing.

By Christ Jesus giving his life and blood in our place, paid our sin debt of breaking the law, for by the law the penalty of breaking the law is death. So blood had to be given to pay the penalty of the law.which is death.
Look let's say, a person who is found guilty of breaking the law and a sentence to prison for life. Now comes the Governor and by his grace he pardons this person debt of breaking the law. So by this Governor's free will he can pardon or not pardon. But now this person is not free to go and do whatever he/she wants to, No he/she is still obligated to keep the laws.

All God's grace does is buy us some time to get it right. And ask God to forgive us of our sin in breaking God's law.

By God's free will, he can either forgive or not forgive, that all depends on you.
If you ask God to forgive you, then you show by your actions that you means what you say, otherwise all your doing is giving God lip service.not meaning anything when you ask forgiveness.
So now by God's free will, can either forgive you or not forgive you, that all depends on how truthfully you are, when you ask forgiveness.

 

[Windwalker]

So blood had to be given to pay the penalty of the law.which is death.

So does this mean we won't grown old and die, since the blood has been shed on our behalf thus breaking the curse of the garden that brought death into the world? What happens to world overpopulation once we all quit dying then? Perhaps the fact we all still die means the blood didn't get imparted to any of us, then no one actually got forgiven of their original sin?

It still seems rather odd, the whole business of human blood being the magical elixir for living free from sin. How does that work? Is this some law of the universe outside God's design he must live by? Does he find it repulsive too, but necessary in order for him to send forgiveness forth from his throne like rivers of living water? Does the rivers of living water only work with rivers of violently shed blood? It's never made any sense to me, logically, emotionally, or spiritually.

What makes more sense is that blood sacrifices were part of the Jewish religion, and early Christians tried to make sense of Jesus' death and tried to tie it to that religious system as a certain "apologetic" device to Jew's who dismissed Jesus. And a whole "lamb of God" mythology was born to support it in response to the Jews. This doesn't mean we need to think in these ancient terms now 2000 years later. Isn't it possible to think of Jesus as valuable to humanity, outside the whole blood sacrifice motif? One would hope the teachings were more important than hemoglobin on God's sacrificial altar.

 

[Faithofchristian]

So does this mean we won't grown old and die, since the blood has been shed on our behalf thus breaking the curse of the garden that brought death into the world? What happens to world overpopulation once we all quit dying then? Perhaps the fact we all still die means the blood didn't get imparted to any of us, then no one actually got forgiven of their original sin?

It still seems rather odd, the whole business of human blood being the magical elixir for living free from sin. How does that work? Is this some law of the universe outside God's design he must live by? Does he find it repulsive too, but necessary in order for him to send forgiveness forth from his throne like rivers of living water? Does the rivers of living water only work with rivers of living blood? It's never made any sense to me, logically, emotionally, or spiritually.

What makes more sense is that blood sacrifices were part of the Jewish religion, and early Christians tried to make sense of Jesus' death and tried to tie it to that religious system as a certain "apologetic" device to Jew's who dismissed Jesus. And a whole "lamb of God" mythology was born to support it in response to the Jews. This doesn't mean we need to think in these ancient terms now 2000 years later. Isn't it possible to think of Jesus as valuable to humanity, outside the whole blood sacrifice motif? One would hope the teachings were more important than hemoglobin on God's sacrificial altar.

Look all Jesus did is put his blood in our place, that now we are under God's grace.

All a person has to do is Repent of their sins and accept the blood of Jesus that he gave for their sins.

Then God gives that person his grace.

It's like Atheist and a homosexual, they first has to repent of their sins, and step out in faith to God, then God forgives them and gives them his grace.
That's a fair enough exchange, you give God your sins and God gives you his grace.

That does not mean, you ask God's forgiveness, but you still stay in sin, No, that is not it works. Once you ask God for his forgiveness you don't go back any sin, that you did before.

 

[Windwalker]

Look all Jesus did is put his blood in our place, that now we are under God's grace.

All a person has to do is Repent of their sins and accept the blood of Jesus that he gave for their sins. Then God gives that person his grace.

But this misses the very questions I raised. All you're doing is repeating the formula, which according to reason make no logic, emotional, or spiritual sense. Do you care to take a stab at explaining how God needs blood to give "grace"? I'm a little confused about this. Is this some cosmic law outside of God that God can't love unless there is human blood shed in order to make Grace function from God?

Moreover, how can it be called "Grace", if you don't get it unless first there was a human blood sacrifices, and secondly that you have to accept a doctrinal belief that that is necessary, which if you don't you don't get this 'gift'? How is that a gift, if you have to do something for it, or that Jesus had to let himself be slaughtered to make it available to people? None of this makes any sense to me, logically, emotionally, or spiritually. Love is Love. I can't see how some bloodshed requirement is necessary in any way. How does it make sense to you?

It's like Atheist and a homosexual, they first has to repent of their sins

What is the sin of an atheist that is different than anyone else's sin? That they don't buy the stories of the bible as factually true? And what is the sin of the homosexual that is different than yours? That they were born gay? Do you need to repent of your hetrosexuality too? We have long ago come to terms with the fact this is not a "lifestyle choice" or some such uneducated nonsense.

It's interesting how you choose to identify various groups as particularly representative of sin, such as the Pharisees targeting Samaritans................. Let's not forget how Jesus felt about that! Isn't this pretty much doing the same thing?

, and step out in faith to God, then God forgives them and gives them his grace.

I will say this, Love is freely available to everyone without any conditions to be met. No "sinner's prayer" to open up God's faucet to make his Grace flow. The ONLY thing is you have to open yourself to what is already fully and completely yours already. The only thing that "choice" does is you decided to drink the water or not. But it's not withheld from anyone. It never has been, nor can be. No blood spilled is required to make that available.

That's a fair enough exchange, you give God your sins and God gives you his grace.

So God withholds love from you? I can't imagine what that would feel like to be a child with a parent that does not love them unconditionally, withdrawing and withholding their love from them if they don't measure up to their silly requirements to be in bed by 9 o'clock or some such demand they failed to meet.

That does not mean, you ask God's forgiveness, but you still stay in sin, No, that is not it works. Once you ask God for his forgiveness you don't go back any sin, that you did before.

You know, the funny thing is, even if you fall back into your old habits, the only one judging you is yourself. I prefer to forgive myself with the Grace that is freely available to anyone, and anytime, unconditionally, regardless of religion, or sexual orientation, or philosophical beliefs. Including yours.

 

[Skwim]

Look all Jesus did is put his blood in our place, that now we are under God's grace.

All a person has to do is Repent of their sins and accept the blood of Jesus that he gave for their sins.

Then God gives that person his grace.

It's like Atheist and a homosexual, they first has to repent of their sins, and step out in faith to God, then God forgives them and gives them his grace.
That's a fair enough exchange, you give God your sins and God gives you his grace.

That does not mean, you ask God's forgiveness, but you still stay in sin, No, that is not it works. Once you ask God for his forgiveness you don't go back any sin, that you did before.

And for those millions upon millions who've never heard of this Quick Fix, or those who, for whatever reason, remain unconvinced? What of them? "Too bad, sucker"?

 

[Faithofchristian]

But this misses the very questions I raised. All you're doing is repeating the formula, which according to reason make no logic, emotional, or spiritual sense. Do you care to take a stab at explaining how God needs blood to give "grace"? I'm a little confused about this. Is this some cosmic law outside of God that God can't love unless there is human blood shed in order to make Grace function from God?

Moreover, how can it be called "Grace", if you don't get it unless first there was a human blood sacrifices, and secondly that you have to accept a doctrinal belief that that is necessary, which if you don't you don't get this 'gift'? How is that a gift, if you have to do something for it, or that Jesus had to let himself be slaughtered to make it available to people? None of this makes any sense to me, logically, emotionally, or spiritually. Love is Love. I can't see how some bloodshed requirement is necessary in any way. How does it make sense to you?


What is the sin of an atheist that is different than anyone else's sin? That they don't buy the stories of the bible as factually true? And what is the sin of the homosexual that is different than yours? That they were born gay? Do you need to repent of your hetrosexuality too? We have long ago come to terms with the fact this is not a "lifestyle choice" or some such uneducated nonsense.

It's interesting how you choose to identify various groups as particularly representative of sin, such as the Pharisees targeting Samaritans................. Let's not forget how Jesus felt about that! Isn't this pretty much doing the same thing?


I will say this, Love is freely available to everyone without any conditions to be met. No "sinner's prayer" to open up God's faucet to make his Grace flow. The ONLY thing is you have to open yourself to what is already fully and completely yours already. The only thing that "choice" does is you decided to drink the water or not. But it's not withheld from anyone. It never has been, nor can be. No blood spilled is required to make that available.


So God withholds love from you? I can't imagine what that would feel like to be a child with a parent that does not love them unconditionally, withdrawing and withholding their love from them if they don't measure up to their silly requirements to be in bed by 9 o'clock or some such demand they failed to meet.


You know, the funny thing is, even if you fall back into your old habits, the only one judging you is yourself. I prefer to forgive myself with the Grace that is freely available to anyone, and anytime, unconditionally, regardless of religion, or sexual orientation, or philosophical beliefs. Including yours.

So you say but doesn't change a thing, by God's law and for breaking God's law blood has to be given.
Grace is not freely given as you think. Why do you think Jesus came calling people to repent of their sins. God loves those who repent of their sins and turn to God.
For God loves those who repent.

If to what you say is right that God's loves is unconditional. Then there would have been no reason for Jesus to had given his life.

 

[RabbiO]

Oops!

 

[Windwalker]

So you say but doesn't change a thing, by God's law and for breaking God's law blood has to be given.

Yes, I do say. And it's not "God's law". It's the projection of primitive man upon the Absolute that they envisioned as a projection of their tribal, blood-sacrificing culture.

Grace is not freely given as you think.

Yes it is. All you need to do is go outside and open your eyes. If it isn't, it's not Grace.

Why do you think Jesus came calling people to repent of their sins.

We all need to turn our eyes to Truth. It's an invitation to Love that is already there for them. "Taste and see.... It's right there. Don't despair, taste.... "

God loves those who repent of their sins and turn to God.

God is love. 1 Jn. 4:18. All God can do is be that Love. If you turn to God, then you can partake of it. No conditions. No swearing allegiance to the church of your choice.

For God loves those who repent.

God loves everyone, even those who walk in the darkness of their imaginations that they are separate from that Love that is God.

If to what you say is right that God's loves is unconditional. Then there would have been no reason for Jesus to had given his life.

The reason he gave his life was to show us Love in the face of tyranny and oppression. It was not to pay God a token of blood to get God to forgive us.