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Featured Does God Have a plan and is it perfect?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Hella Jingles, Jul 22, 2017.

  1. EtuMalku

    EtuMalku MERCURÆN LUCIFERIAN

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    4) God sends his only Son to die for said Sin of which God created in the first place
    Isn't that the story in the book?
    Given there is no real factual history to this Greatest Story ever Told, there can be no evidence supplied by historians. Jesus clearly states in the NT that the OT is to be followed.

    John 10:35 - "If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;"
     
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  2. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member
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    When you examine the story in the NT it does not add up.
    Where did Jesus pbuh claim to be God's only son sent to die for the sins of the World? Where does he teach original sin? Where was he tried, what did he say and on what day?
     
  3. EtuMalku

    EtuMalku MERCURÆN LUCIFERIAN

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    come on man, why does a Luciferian have to school you in your own religion?


    John 3:16
    16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
     
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  4. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member
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    Very good, now considering the following verse:

    Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

    Could you tell me which World is John 3:16 referring to and why has the word 'Begotten' been removed the RSV?
     
  5. EtuMalku

    EtuMalku MERCURÆN LUCIFERIAN

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    Not that I care . . . but, do tell.
     
  6. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member
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    The world referred to is the 12 Tribes of Israel...

    Romans 9:13 As it is written Jacob have I LOVED. But Esau I have HATED.

    Jacob became Israel that beget 12 Tribes. The descendants of Esau became the Edomites.

    So God hates one people on the Earth, and yet he loves the whole World? Clearly not:

    Isaiah 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded WORLD without end.

    Clearly God sent Jesus pbuh to Israel as explained in Acts.

    Acts 13:23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

    24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

    They also twisted the Greek to whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life, when it should read whosoever OBEYS him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
     
  7. EtuMalku

    EtuMalku MERCURÆN LUCIFERIAN

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    Ya gotta love Christian Apologetics . . . so creative, so deceptive . . .
     
  8. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    Definitely not human. Here is where the Muslim doctrine and the Biblical diverse. Angels are called the sons of God. They are spirits, have spirit bodies - meaning not human, not of our universe, or reality.

    Before Christ came down to earth and was born human, we are told that he was the Logos, a tittle. This tittle shows that he functioned as a go between between angels and God, men and God - indicating that none could talk directly to God but that all went through the Logos.

    Revelation shows God and the Lamb of God, the Logos, our ransom, and compares them respectively to heavenly bodies. God is said to be our sun, and Christ the moon. He is being shown to be an exact copy of God.

    Here things become impossible for humans to understand all things. The way I think is simple. God exists in a so high plane, reality, that neither angels nor men can directly interact with God. He created the Logos so as to have 'a son' firstborn, the exactly was his copy, through whom he interacts with both human and angel. So, our Christ, in heaven, the Logos, is reflecting God's glory to all human and angel; he himself is not God, but a copy of him, avatar in a sense, (to use a modern movie concept). He is higher than the angels and has a spirit body. He is God's high priest, primary apostle, primary prophet.

    So, yes, he is a brother to the angels, or rather they became his brothers since he is no. 1.
     
  9. arthra

    arthra Baha'i

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    Baha'is believe there is a "Plan" for this age we live in and it has details some of which are being carried out. The world has become much more united in the past fifty years or so... We have an internet able to enable instant global communication... We have more trade from countries around the world. See: World Trade Organization - Home page
    The United Nations while not perfect brings issues and offers strategies to resolve problems in various parts of the planet. There's also an International Court of Arbitration- International Chamber of Commerce that resolves disputes. See: The International Court of Arbitration.
     
  10. Hammerheart

    Hammerheart Well-Known Member

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    Oblivion in and of itself has a suicidal instinct. It does not want to exist. Thus, existence exists. What I am saying is that, if we look at any particular deity as the origin of the basic mechanics of the universe, we can trace it back to oblivion's aversion to itself. This primordial will could be viewed as the cause for all betterment; what pushes the universe to expand, species to procreate, and all the way down to the individual level, the Self to improve. That, to me, is Lucifer's plan.
     
  11. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member
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    Muslims understand Son of God in the same context as the Jews, a person who is righteous, God fearing and a servant of God.

    Let's examine the 2 differing concepts and see which one holds true...

    Who coined this term Logos? Does it not come from Greek Philosophy that held the Logos (“Word” personified), Charis (“Grace” or “Covenant love”), Pleroma (Fullness).

    Philo a 1st-century Hellenized Jew had adopted the term Logos from Greek philosophy, using it in place of the Hebrew concept of Wisdom (Sophia) as the intermediary (Angel) between the transcendent Creator and the material world.

    This makes me wonder, was the writer of John's Gospel a Greek Philosopher or illiterate Aramaic speaking fisherman from Galilee?

    Who wrote revelation and why was it considered a disputed book for hundreds of years?

    Or simple if one was schooled in Greek philosophy and thought.

    In the past God chose people from amongst the people, He would select someone they knew and trusted. He would send The Holy Spirit/Angel to help, He would give the person miracles, and teach them prophecies if required.

    In the genealogies given in Luke and Matthew, we see Adam pbuh is the Son of God, and there is no hint of a pre-existing Jesus pbuh.

    Could you show me where Jesus pbuh says, he is the intermediary between God, Angels and man?

    When you say Jesus pbuh was a 'copy' of God, does this mean it was a perfect or flawed copy?

    Yet your Bible says;

    Hebrews 2:9 But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
     
  12. bobhikes

    bobhikes AntiRepublican
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    Gods plan is to create an independent equal. God knows all in the current. Because of Knowing all in the current for existence God is pretty good at predicting future events.
     
  13. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    QUOTE="Muslim-UK, post: 5257650, member: 62463"]Who coined this term Logos? Does it not come from Greek Philosophy that held the Logos (“Word” personified), Charis (“Grace” or “Covenant love”), Pleroma (Fullness).[/QUOTE]
    Quote for the title Word, Logos:

    Why God’s Son is called “the Word.” A title often describes the function served or the duty performed by the bearer. So it was with the title Kal-Hatzé, meaning “the voice or word of the king,” that was given an Abyssinian officer. Based on his travels from 1768 to 1773, James Bruce describes the duties of the Kal-Hatzé as follows. He stood by a window covered with a curtain through which, unseen inside, the king spoke to this officer. He then conveyed the message to the persons or party concerned. Thus the Kal-Hatzé acted as the word or voice of the Abyssinian king.—Travels to Discover the Source of the Nile, London, 1790, Vol. III, p. 265; Vol. IV, p. 76​

    Since Jesus was at that time a heavenly being, he wouldn't be seen as human. If you look at Genesis 1: 26, this is said, "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: "

    Clearly God spoke to a companion very close and dear to himself. As we read in John 13, " 3 All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made. " Thus this Son of God, was the means by which the Almighty created all other things which is why he is known as the "only-begotton Son of God."

    This Son of God is mentioned in the OT in more than one place:

    Proverbs 30:. 4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, and descended? Who hath gathered the wind in his fists? Who hath bound the waters in his garment? Who hath established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and what is his son’s name, if thou knowest?
    I also will make him my first-born, The highest of the kings of the earth. (Psalm 89:27, ASV)
    Ps 2:6,7: "6 As for me, I have set my King on Zion, my holy hill. 7 I will tell of the decree: The Lord said to me, "You are my Son; today I have begotten you. 72:1:Give the king your justice, O God, and your righteousness to the royal son!​

    Christ is the mediator between God and men:

    1 Timothy 2:5-6 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—[this is] what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times. ​

    John 1:1 tells me that the Logos is what I said:

    John 1:1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.​

    I don't have time to find more about this right now. But, the teaching is that nobody comes to God without going through Christ.
     
  14. Hammerheart

    Hammerheart Well-Known Member

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    ^^^^

    The scriptural stuff isn't really relevant in the context of a debate.
     
  15. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    I only believe the "plan" is a general outline, not micromanaging details. There are also far too many stories of people defying God's will for "God has a plan" to have any real meaning.

    It's all part of the plan. :tongueclosed:
    God's too stupid to fix things, just throw them in the trash when they're broken?

    Yes, God forbid God should ever have any kind of responsibility for His actions. :p

    Hella Jingles, this would be an example of "it can't be true because I don't like it". They, *cough*, have no choice but to deny the lack of free will. :)
     
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  16. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member
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    Noah pbuh preached for 950 years. What more should have been done?
     
  17. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    Instead of discussing or accepting this piece of knowledge, all you can do is jab at it. Why you think this does anything for an exchange, I cannot see!
     
  18. BSM1

    BSM1 What? Me worry?

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    [QUOTE="Kelly of the Phoenix, post: 5258427, member: 58387"


    It's all part of the plan. :tongueclosed:



    [/QUOTE]

    Who knew?
     
  19. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    Stop talking, start doing?

    It reveals you have no substantive comeback. :p
     
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