DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
Yes. God knows all. He created time itself.
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Does God Have a plan and is it perfect?
- Thread starter Hella Jingles
- Start date
Yes. God knows all. He created time itself.
Grandliseur
Well-Known Member
First, an objection, though, many claim that God is omniscient. He is not omniscient about the future. If he were, free will could not exist.
The future things God predicts - are then a combination of scientific projections (on a level we cannot comprehend) and of things he has decided he wants to have happen, which then will be made to happen by power, by forcing this to happen.
Much of what will happen in the future, God has no interest in controlling. Such things will be permitted to unfold as random chance happens to make it work.
Evil incarnated
The teaching that God knows everything that shall happen in the future - is an evil teaching that puts all evil at God's doorstep. It makes him the author of all evil. That is not so. Just like parents may raise a child correctly; the child might turn to thievery; the parents did not make him a thief; he himself made himself into this. In the same way, free will is the most dangerous substance in the universe. When misused, it is not God's fault, but the fault of the individual who does so.
Unfortunately, the subject is complex, and many believers preach the error. This does not make it true. To claim that God even wants to know if in ten years, I will have chocolate flavored cornflakes or toast and bread for breakfast - is insane.
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Guy Threepwood
Mighty Pirate
I'd say that any creation ultimately reflects the will of it's creator- he created time itself as we know it, so certainly the 'future' is not a barrier- he is not restrained by the rules of his own creation!
Just as a movie director knows how the plot ends- but does he know every little added interest that his actors will contribute along the way?
He gave us free will for a reason- so as Forrest Gump would say, re. destiny v chance 'maybe it's both'!
Do you really want to know?
We all decide for ourselves what to believe.....and for our own reasons. Our decisions say a lot about us, without us ever uttering a word. Actions speak louder to the one who is observing us.
There was never a "plan" because that would mean we have no free will. God has a "purpose" to our being....a destination if you like....that has no set route to arrive there. The destination is set...the route is open to detours, but they are always posted by God....we cant determine our own route....we never could.
By giving humans free will, God did not pre-determine anything. He left their decisions to them and acted on those decisions to determine his next move with regard to the human race.
The flood e.g. was implemented due to intervention from outside the human family that descended from Adam. Violence had escalated markedly because of those unnatural circumstances, so God determined to wipe out all those who practiced wickedness from existence. The only family unaffected by the prevailing attitudes of the time were warned of God's intentions, were educated as to how to save themselves, and were given ample time to implement those instructions.
God did not save Noah and his family....their decision to act on God's direction saved them.
Like it or not, we are under obligation to follow instructions from the one who created us....but he will not force or coerce anyone to do anything against their free will. We choose our own course and the consequences of our own actions. God has put the human race on notice. Who is listening?
Since Jesus was Jewish and not Catholic, perhaps we should take a lot of our knowledge from them rather than from "the church"...... If you want to find fault with only partial knowledge, then you will find heaps of what appears to be nonsense. But when you have deeper knowledge, a lot of things make sense that didn't on the face of it. We have to put in effort to bring the gems to the surface. If we value them, we will.
God's purpose will go ahead with us or without us......so its best to bone up on the requirements needed for getting there and being included in it...IMO.
I am looking forward to a wonderful future.....but it will not be the result of anything that man has done to fix this world.
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
Why would an all powerful god even care? He would be far beyond human relatability that it would be trivial for such a being to even love us yet alone anything else. It can see past and future as if it was one single line laid before it reducing all actions to mere scripts. This being would be at fault of everything and would require no plan or influence upon the world but one single interference to set all things in determined accordance.
Tumah
Veteran Member
Everyone also exists within G-d.
Electra
Active Member
This is just my coco thoughts
If there is an infinite amount of realities, with every option to be had played out.
The plan was to create a sphere of realities, no final objective but to come closer to source which needs nothing to happen for it to come true just Time. We are bound in time but the creator is not, so they are transforming energy to a finer density by creating the speare of a reality which we are all in and experiencing, it doesn't really matter 'what happens' to our perception.
If there is an infinite amount of realities, with every option to be had played out.
The plan was to create a sphere of realities, no final objective but to come closer to source which needs nothing to happen for it to come true just Time. We are bound in time but the creator is not, so they are transforming energy to a finer density by creating the speare of a reality which we are all in and experiencing, it doesn't really matter 'what happens' to our perception.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
I think having the whole thing etched in stone would render it pointless and meaningless.
salam, in islam we say, that every single soul has a life mapped out perfectly designed to enable us to recognise God, to turn to Him and to seek refuge in Him, to guide us, to forgive us, to help us every step of the journey of life.
God is not a distant Creator. Therefore, to depend upon God, we should be in constant communication with Him, He is al Wadud, [The Loving], He is al Mujeeb [The Answerer of prayers] He is al Rahman al Raheem, The Merciful, The entirely Merciful. He is al Ghaffur [The oft Forgiving]. He is the giver of Life, The giver of Death, He is so much more ...
Asma-ul-Husna (99 Names of Allah)
Asma-ul-Husna (99 Names of Allah)
eAlim Technology Limited (www.eAlimTech.com) a Hong Kong based company; manufacturer of Digital Islamic Gadgets ...
God [Glorified be He and above His creation is He] has told us, we may hate something decreed for us, but it is better for us, we may love something decreed for us, yet it is in fact harm for us.
A believer lives life with the goal of pleasing Allah. It is an absolute fact that people turn to God, become humble, pray, seek help, and depend upon al Muhaymin [The Protector] in the majority of cases, because we perceive the tests of life are too heavy for us to carry alone.
We need the good times, they are respite and they enable us to feel a brief glimpse of how our soul should feel - but that permanent state of happiness, ease, comfort and security can never be achieved completely in this worldly life, if it did, we would not seek beyond our 'now'.
So what we perceive as evil, is in fact nothing but tests.
Does God care what we eat? Yes, but He forbade very very little of what is available - and what has been forbidden contains harm.
He is the Provider, nothing happens without His knowledge. If you truly believe in God, then it is to recognise that we have limited knowledge whilst His knowledge is all encompassing. We are defined and confined by the Laws that God created for our existence, He is not bound by those Laws.
He is above His Tremendous throne, and yet, we know that He knows us more intimately than we even know ourselves.
God created heaven and hell. He also empowered the concept of evil, sent down magic [which is forbidden to use] as a means of testing, and as a means of separating us. He could have simply said, 'be' and everything would have been fulfilled and we would already be in our ultimate abodes.
So, we witness that a person may steal something, and it deprives the rightful owner. If the one who stole repents and returns the objects, and recognises the wrongdoing- then forgiveness is guaranteed, it may come with a punishment, but ultimate punishment is hell, not humiliation on earth. If the person who is deprived of their property acts according to what is permitted, whether that is to prosecute, forgive, even gift to the thief the item(s), there is so much reward for them, because they obeyed God.
This life and everything in it, is temporary, it doesn't even belong to us. Everything, and that includes us, belongs to God. He can do with us what He wants.
He is also just, which is why - out of absolute Justness [as well as capability] everything we do, or do not do, in life is in a clear record with Him. He is the ultimate witness for us, or against us. If He did not know, then on the Day of Judgement, how could we accept without question, His Judgement and decree over us? So, yes, everything that happens is planned.
And by our actions [good or evil] by our choices [every soul inclines to evil in some matters] and [every soul inclines to good in some matters]. Who we become is our choice to make - will we obey god and self discipline, or will we take our desires and emotional reactions as our 'god' and follow no guidance?
God told us that no-one is perfect other than the very few He created perfectly. So, we will slip, but if we recognise that we slipped, then regret, repent and reform, we are successful, however, if we slip, but decide to keep going - then our regret will become manifest on the Day of Judgement.
God does witness every single thing, we think, do, intend and do not do, intend and carry out. And that is why He is the Most Just, The All Knowing. We are given our lives to live literally out of mercy. So that on the Day of Judgement we have no right to question God, asking, "but how can you be so sure?" You can't question a Judge who has perfect knowledge about you.
God has told us, given us glad tidings, and warnings. Where do you want to live? Your ultimate abode? Heaven [Paradise] or Hell? Live your life according to where you want to be, and with Whom you want to be at journey's end. He is witness to, and knows everything, isn't the Judge equipped with ALL knowledge going to be the most wise and best of all Judges?
Grandliseur
Well-Known Member
Thank you for your post, and your hard work.salam, in islam we say, that every single soul has a life mapped out perfectly designed to enable us to recognise God, to turn to Him and to seek refuge in Him, to guide us, to forgive us, to help us every step of the journey of life.
God is not a distant Creator. Therefore, to depend upon God, we should be in constant communication with Him, He is al Wadud, [The Loving], He is al Mujeeb [The Answerer of prayers] He is al Rahman al Raheem, The Merciful, The entirely Merciful. He is al Ghaffur [The oft Forgiving]. He is the giver of Life, The giver of Death, He is so much more ...
Asma-ul-Husna (99 Names of Allah)
Asma-ul-Husna (99 Names of Allah)
eAlim Technology Limited (www.eAlimTech.com) a Hong Kong based company; manufacturer of Digital Islamic Gadgets ...
God [Glorified be He and above His creation is He] has told us, we may hate something decreed for us, but it is better for us, we may love something decreed for us, yet it is in fact harm for us.
A believer lives life with the goal of pleasing Allah. It is an absolute fact that people turn to God, become humble, pray, seek help, and depend upon al Muhaymin [The Protector] in the majority of cases, because we perceive the tests of life are too heavy for us to carry alone.
We need the good times, they are respite and they enable us to feel a brief glimpse of how our soul should feel - but that permanent state of happiness, ease, comfort and security can never be achieved completely in this worldly life, if it did, we would not seek beyond our 'now'.
So what we perceive as evil, is in fact nothing but tests.
Does God care what we eat? Yes, but He forbade very very little of what is available - and what has been forbidden contains harm.
He is the Provider, nothing happens without His knowledge. If you truly believe in God, then it is to recognise that we have limited knowledge whilst His knowledge is all encompassing. We are defined and confined by the Laws that God created for our existence, He is not bound by those Laws.
He is above His Tremendous throne, and yet, we know that He knows us more intimately than we even know ourselves.
God created heaven and hell. He also empowered the concept of evil, sent down magic [which is forbidden to use] as a means of testing, and as a means of separating us. He could have simply said, 'be' and everything would have been fulfilled and we would already be in our ultimate abodes.
So, we witness that a person may steal something, and it deprives the rightful owner. If the one who stole repents and returns the objects, and recognises the wrongdoing- then forgiveness is guaranteed, it may come with a punishment, but ultimate punishment is hell, not humiliation on earth. If the person who is deprived of their property acts according to what is permitted, whether that is to prosecute, forgive, even gift to the thief the item(s), there is so much reward for them, because they obeyed God.
This life and everything in it, is temporary, it doesn't even belong to us. Everything, and that includes us, belongs to God. He can do with us what He wants.
He is also just, which is why - out of absolute Justness [as well as capability] everything we do, or do not do, in life is in a clear record with Him. He is the ultimate witness for us, or against us. If He did not know, then on the Day of Judgement, how could we accept without question, His Judgement and decree over us? So, yes, everything that happens is planned.
And by our actions [good or evil] by our choices [every soul inclines to evil in some matters] and [every soul inclines to good in some matters]. Who we become is our choice to make - will we obey god and self discipline, or will we take our desires and emotional reactions as our 'god' and follow no guidance?
God told us that no-one is perfect other than the very few He created perfectly. So, we will slip, but if we recognise that we slipped, then regret, repent and reform, we are successful, however, if we slip, but decide to keep going - then our regret will become manifest on the Day of Judgement.
God does witness every single thing, we think, do, intend and do not do, intend and carry out. And that is why He is the Most Just, The All Knowing. We are given our lives to live literally out of mercy. So that on the Day of Judgement we have no right to question God, asking, "but how can you be so sure?" You can't question a Judge who has perfect knowledge about you.
God has told us, given us glad tidings, and warnings. Where do you want to live? Your ultimate abode? Heaven [Paradise] or Hell? Live your life according to where you want to be, and with Whom you want to be at journey's end. He is witness to, and knows everything, isn't the Judge equipped with ALL knowledge going to be the most wise and best of all Judges?
I read it. I do not share all your views. Death to me is destruction of all that we are, except our spirit -data- which returns to God for storage and judgment. Our spirit is not a living entity after death, the way I understand it. I do not believe in a heaven when people die. If they get a reward, it shall be in a resurrection into Paradise once this is made to be.
God is omniscient about all things that have happened and that happens now; but not about all things that will happen in the future, e.g. me having coffee, tea, or milk for breakfast in ten years, etc.
No problem, as it gives others a chance to see what different Religions teach on key subjects.
In Islam the resurrection is a Physical one, in the bodies we had on Earth. After Judgement we are clothed in our true bodies, (these are unlike our Earthly bodies).
Does Christianity teach soul requires a body in order to be classed as living and what is the evidence for no body after death?
Nor do we, once you die your soul is taken from the body and escorted to the First Heaven, along the way you will see many of your ancestors, friends, family. You get to the Gates and will find them closed or open. Eventually you return to your body, get buried and await Judgement day. Morning and Night you will be shown Heaven or Hell depending on what you decided to chose for yourself, and your companions in your grave will manifestly show the choices you made in this life.
Remember Jesus pbuh told his Companions, he had much to tell them, but they were not ready for the knowledge at that stage, likely because they had doubts, his Community was relatively small and the time was not right.
God knows every minor detail, He gave you that food, it was written for you. What you will have to explain is whether the earnings you used to purchase the food was legally obtained, or illegally gained, whether what you ate and drank was permissible or not. None of His knowledge impacts your freewill.
Grandliseur
Well-Known Member
Yes, I agree in God knowing every minor detail, even the words in our minds before we speak them. But, that is the extend for me. My studies lead me to believe that not all future events are set in stone, nor has God foreknowledge of them.
Christianity is a joke! They have 30,000 denominations some say. Many cannot agree if coffee is black or white. My faith comes from scripture directly.
The teaching is:
the entire being is a soul, just as a doctor is. It is not his hands that are the doctor; it is his entire person. When he dies, the doctor dies. Similarly, when the person dies, so does his soul.
The soul is composed of: the flesh, the spirit which animates the flesh, and the breath of the person that keeps the person living.
Animals are also souls as long as they have blood in their veins.
The spirit on death returns to God. Until death, it is alive; after death it becomes static, so to say; it is no longer alive. But, it contains all information God needs about that person to recreate, resurrect that one in Paradise if that person wasn't evil.
The general resurrection will happen so that the person will receive a body of flesh that fits that one.
A very few, Christ included, receive/d resurrections into spirit bodies so that they have a heavenly hope, are like angels in a sense.
This is my understanding.
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This is because God cursed them for their disobedience.
"From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done." Qur'an 5:14
So you are resurrected in your body after all.
I see no issue with this.
So it will be re-clothed in flesh as above. Earlier you said, "Death to me is destruction of all that we are, except our spirit -data- which returns to God for storage and judgment." Thanks for now giving a fuller explanation.
So you're not a Trinitarian Christian to think Jesus pbuh will receive a Angelic like body.
The Earthly body we are resurrected in is not quite like our Earthly body, in that it will be able to stand the Heat of the Sun, which will be closer to us, after Judgement we receive garments of light that enclose us for Heaven. I'm sure the Prophets receive the same, if not better to distinguish their rank amongst the people of Paradise.
Thanks again for sharing.
Grandliseur
Well-Known Member
You're welcome. There is one difference though between mine and your beliefs. I believe Christ is the son of God, and, as you said, I am not a Trinitarian. I believe that God has many sons, but that Christ is the firstborn.
What does that make him, a brother of Adam pbuh? Or brother of Angels, who were created before mankind?
EtuMalku
Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
One helluva Master Plan . . .
- God creates heaven and earth
- God creates Man
- God enables Sin
- God sends his only Son to die for said Sin of which God created in the first place
- Sin still exists
- God ultimately fails
Not thought out very well if you ask me . . .
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
God has one ultimate plan but all religions do not understand this plan. As the bible puts it:
1 Corinthians 2:6-8 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
We teach wisdom to people who are mature, but the wisdom we teach is not from this world. It is not the wisdom of the rulers of this world, who are losing their power. But we speak God’s secret wisdom that has been hidden from everyone until now. God planned this wisdom for our glory. He planned it before the world began. None of the rulers of this world understood this wisdom. If they had understood it, they would not have killed our great and glorious Lord on a cross.
So this plan which was planned by God before the world began - what is it?
Ephesians 1:8-11Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
God gave us that grace fully and freely. With full wisdom and understanding he let us know his secret plan. This was what God wanted, and he planned to do it through Christ. God’s goal was to finish his plan when the right time came. He planned that all things in heaven and on earth be joined together with Christ as the head.
In Christ we were chosen to be God’s people. God had already planned for us to be his people, because that is what he wanted. And he is the one who makes everything agree with what he decides and wants.
There are too many churches, which church? That is something people have to find out for themselves. But that is the plan - "God had already planned for us to be his people, because that is what he wanted."
Don't be so harsh, that's the counterfeit version of God cooked up by the Church.
EtuMalku
Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
According to whom?
According to number 4 on your list not being supported internally within the NT or externally by Historians.