1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Does God FORGET???

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Genna, Sep 6, 2006.

  1. Truth101

    Truth101 Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2005
    Messages:
    175
    Ratings:
    +8
    This is the exact conclusion they come to because they are unwilling to lose this idle of the heart under any circumstances so they must twist the scriptures or at the very least lose all logic and common sense when addressing it.
    We are told that "God is working ALL things according to His will and purpose, not merely making provisions for the freewill of man because of His forknowledge.
    This ultimately puts Gods will into subjection to mans will. Man has a will but it is not free. It is guided by every circumstance that is places in our lives. It falls right on the mark of worshipping and serving the creature more than the Creator.

    God Bless, Dave
     
  2. Truth101

    Truth101 Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2005
    Messages:
    175
    Ratings:
    +8
    Lets look at it a different way. It is safe to assume that God is not bound by time as we humans are. He knows the beggining from the end because He is eternal which we are not. We must wait for time to pass in order to see what the future holds while God is outside of time and sees all time at once and all that is in it. Since this is the case the word which He has given us is a conclusion of all things in all time and He is stating what was what is and what will be all at once. Therefore He cannot lie because He is bound by His omniscience and therefore He realatively cannot lie. Im sure if He wanted to He absolutely could but because of His rightiousness He WILL not more importantly than CANNOT.

    God Bless, Dave
     
  3. AllisonW70

    AllisonW70 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    29
    Ratings:
    +6
    I'm new to this.......so, please tell me if my reaction is typical.....I busted out with laughter when I read this....not at the words or the point being made....just the reaction! Totally didn't expect that... And I'm loving these conversations! :)
    I was originally responding to a comment made about the how things changed from the Old Testament teaching of an eye for an eye to forgiveness....And the answer is Jesus; plain and simple.
     
  4. dawny0826

    dawny0826 Mother Heathen

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    14,087
    Ratings:
    +2,200
    Religion:
    Non-Denominational Christian
    "Remember their sin no more" means that He FORGIVES.

    It was HIS design. His rules. I think He calls the shots and determines His own nature.
     
  5. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    30,679
    Ratings:
    +6,336
    Religion:
    LDS Christian
    Really? Oh, that thought never occurred to me. :rolleyes:

    Hmmm. Why don't you give me an example of where the Bible describes God as "omniscient" and we'll take it from there.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Bishka

    Bishka Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    18,919
    Ratings:
    +1,487
    That doens't mean God is omnisent (or however you spell it), that's just your interpretation of the verse.
     
  7. PetShopBoy88

    PetShopBoy88 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    450
    Ratings:
    +33
    Come on, people, let's play nice. This is a pretty interesting thread, and I don't want it to get locked because people don't know how to pick their fights. RF has a system called PMs. Use them if you need to. But don't use open forum and punish the rest of us by derailing threads to the point where they get locked.
     
  8. Bishka

    Bishka Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    18,919
    Ratings:
    +1,487

    You never answered, why are you so insistent over something that you apparently don't believe.
     
  9. Genna

    Genna Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2006
    Messages:
    216
    Ratings:
    +8
    What does "ALMIGHTY GOD" mean to you?

    Knowledge is power — Leonardo Davinci
     
  10. Genna

    Genna Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2006
    Messages:
    216
    Ratings:
    +8
    I don't know if it is true or not, not that I do not believe! I have Christians telling me one thing and other christians telling me another, is God trying to confuse me?
     
  11. Genna

    Genna Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2006
    Messages:
    216
    Ratings:
    +8
    I am sorry if I have caused problems here PetShopBoy88! I am trying to rehabilitate my lifestyle and I thought that perhaps this is the right place to be, and at the same time have many doubts and uncertainties. uuuhhh, I am tired, goodnight!
     
  12. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    16,472
    Ratings:
    +3,192
    Religion:
    Christian Taoist
    Why would you assume that the Christian God is omniscient? The scriptures don't teach that as a premise.
     
  13. Bishka

    Bishka Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    18,919
    Ratings:
    +1,487
    It means Almighty God, just as it says.
     
  14. Bishka

    Bishka Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    18,919
    Ratings:
    +1,487
    Why should you care what Christians think or what God thinks? Maybe think for yourself and decide on what you believe instead of relying on others to make that decision for yourself.
     
  15. Truth101

    Truth101 Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2005
    Messages:
    175
    Ratings:
    +8
    I will appologize on behalf of all those who are here in the name of strife. Forgive them.
    Jam 3:13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him show out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
    Jam 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
    Jam 3:15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
    Jam 3:16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
    Jam 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
    Jam 3:18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
    Instead of "being prepared to give an answer to all those who ask" this is what you have to endure just for attempting to get simple answers to simple questions which deserve to be answered. Again, I apologize and hope this does not discourage you from continuing your search.

    God Bless, Dave
     
  16. Snowbear

    Snowbear Nita Okhata

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,420
    Ratings:
    +263
    No. That would be Satan who is trying to confuse you... Especially now that you are trying to seek answers from and about God.
     
  17. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    30,679
    Ratings:
    +6,336
    Religion:
    LDS Christian
    So infinite = omniscient? Okay, well now that that's settled... :rolleyes:
     
  18. Fluffy

    Fluffy A fool

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2004
    Messages:
    7,570
    Ratings:
    +1,002
    If God, as an omnipotent being, is unbounded by logic then it is very difficult to have a coherent discussion about him. It doesn't matter if the Bible says that God cannot lie since if it also says that he is omnipotent then he must be able to lie. In fact, it must be simultaneously possible and impossible for him to lie. People seem to be able to wrap their heads around square triangles far easier than this.

    If we have accepted that God is unbounded by logic then you cannot use logic to bound him. Here you are saying that since the Bible says God cannot lie therefore there is something he cannot do despite his omnipotence. That is using logic to deduce and example of something that God cannot do. But we have already agreed that God is unbounded by logic...

    Putting aside whether that is the case or not, neither me or you can assert such a thing if we accept that omnipotence implies that God is not bounded by logic because we would have to utilise logic in order to suggest as such thereby breaking our own premise.

    However, as I said in my last post, most modern Christians do not interpret the Bible literally. If you check the wikipedia page on omnipotence then you will find 2 seperate definitions. The difference between the two is that first defines God has being able to do anything that is logically possible and the second allows God to do that which is logically impossible as well.

    You have to remember that the Bible often uses superlatives without caveats. In fact any sort of work that contains stories does exactly the same thing. A story becomes boring if we replace "Almighty God" with "God who can do pretty much anything except for that which is logically impossible or mutually exclusive with his own character".

    The offshoot of this poetic license is that you will find two types of Christian. Those who interpret these descriptions literally and those who do so figuratively. Your arguments assume the literal interpretation and so are avoided by any Christian who is not a literalist. However, your arguments are also not useful against the literalist either since they use logic to limit a God that by definition cannot be limited by logic.

    Excellent point. I had not considered it like that before. It would indeed be very difficult to have something with limitless power unless that being also had limitless knowledge since without the latter, the former would remain unused thereby rendering a description of "omnipotent" inaccurate.

    Heya Becky,
    What are the specific differences between an understanding that is infinite and omniscience?

    That isn't what it means though. If it was all that it meant then it would mean as much as flooglepuff or any other sequence of letters that had no attributable definition.

    I cannot answer for Genna but the reason I am so insistent over these sorts of issues is because discovering how different beliefs can be combined together and whether some beliefs cannot be combined together (logically) is of great interest to me. It is one of the few areas of theology that is largely based on deductive reasoning as opposed to inductive reasoning and therefore conclusions are often in sight which I guess gives the entire topic a sort of potential for completeness about it.

    I also feel that it is important since I personally have a very difficult time respecting any belief that I cannot comprehend. For example, I was very anti-Catholic for their views on contraceptives before I engaged in discussion about the exact mechanics behind such a belief. When a person encounters something that is very different from their worldview (and for a non-Christian, omnipotence, omniscience etc are very different and difficult concepts to comprehend), antagonism is a very usual reaction. Unjustifiable but usual. Through discussion, the hope is that the antagonism might be relieved and be replaced by mutual tolerance if not also mutual respect.

    Heya Netdoc,
    Omniscience is one of those terms that is interpreted in many different ways. Together with the fact that scripture can also be interpreted in many different ways, there are a whole host of combinations that in fact show that scripture does teach God's omniscience.

    What needs to be established is which level of strictness of the term "omniscience" is required in order for arguments such as these to hold. For example, if we equate "omniscience" with "infinite understanding" and this shown to be sufficient for these arguments to hold then it would be correct, translation allowing, to say that scripture does teach "omniscience" regardless of whether any of us feel that such a concept deserves to be ascribed such a term.

    Heya Kathryn,
    As I said to Netdoc, these terms are thrown around perhaps more than they should. It is one of the reasons that when I engage in these sorts of discussions, I prefer to approach a non-denominational demiurge rather than, say, the biblical God.

    However, as long as we are defining omniscience to be "infinite understanding" and not bringing along any baggage that the word might have gained from prior or accepted definitions then semantic discrepancies cannot avoid the argument. I am uncertain whether that has happened in this case.

    If anybody here has an exhaustive list of everything that scripture has to say about the extent of God's knowledge/intelligence/wisdom etc then it would probably not only be useful but absolutely necessary for any sort of debate on the subject to remain meaningful.
     
  19. PetShopBoy88

    PetShopBoy88 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    450
    Ratings:
    +33
    I think you're doing fine with the questions. Sometimes people will question your motives, though, and I don't particularly think that's a fight you really need to deal with. ;)
     
  20. Bishka

    Bishka Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    18,919
    Ratings:
    +1,487
    Fluffy, I think Kathryn explained a bit here, and as I'm a bit tired, and just had my blood drawn, I'll get back to the rest of your quetions a little later today.
     
Loading...