does god exist?

[true blood]

I guess it goes both ways. Who's to say which is more right?

"just because we want our species to be superior to others on earth and 'meant for something more', doesn't mean it is" -cerd.

Nature already has supplied us with knowledge and instinct far greater than any beast in the forest.

 

[Runt]

And yet those beasts in the forest may truly be superior to us because, in their ignorance, they know true peace that we can never touch. They do not doubt, they do not fear the future, they do not wonder if there is purpose to their lives...

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Runt-- that reminds me of Robert Burns' "To a Mouse"

But Mousie, thou are no thy-lane,
In proving foresight may be vain:
The best laid schemes o' Mice an' Men,
Gang aft agley,
An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain,
For promis'd joy!

Still, thou art blest, compar'd wi' me!
The present only toucheth thee:
But Och! I backward cast my e'e,
On prospects drear!
An' forward, tho' I canna see,
I guess an' fear!

 

[HelpMe]

Nice recovery, but you completely ignored the point I made regarding the Christian tradition of the supremacy of man, which earlier you accused Darwin of "making popular".

i don't know if man is the almighty creature in 'christianity', since you are repeatedly and erronously claiming so, i beg of you by what means do you do such?

--S

 

[HelpMe]

...Dinosaurs and electricity were discovered by scientific investigation (i.e. using our brains)...

if digging is scientific investigation, then i think the whole argument is pointless.if all science is is "using our brains" then religion is founded by this same thing, HF.



--S

 

[Mr Spinkles]

HelpMe-- I would like to take this time to apologize. I have led this conversation a bit astray from the original topic...the existence of God. Perhaps we can continue our discussion in a new thread or something.

 

[Orthodox]

Hi,

I am a Christian and I believe it is possible to draw some conclusions about the existence of a higher power from empirically gathered data. I know! Big suprise!

I was wondering what scientific reasons you Atheists have for disbelieving in God?

At present I am composing a thread (a while off yet) called Science VS Atheism. The facts I will show in this were the ignition for my belief in the existence of God, since then I have come to understand the historical reliability of the Gospels and the moral integrity of their message. Faith in God must be rooted in fact, I am no Fideist. Paul said "question everything, that you might know the truth."

Orthodox

 

[Pah]

Hi,

I am a Christian and I believe it is possible to draw some conclusions about the existence of a higher power from empirically gathered data. I know! Big suprise!

Me too! And absolutely no surprise to you.

I was wondering what scientific reasons you Atheists have for disbelieving in God?

At present I am composing a thread (a while off yet) called Science VS Atheism. The facts I will show in this were the ignition for my belief in the existence of God, since then I have come to understand the historical reliability of the Gospels and the moral integrity of their message. Faith in God must be rooted in fact, I am no Fideist. Paul said "question everything, that you might know the truth."

Orthodox

I await your thread to answer the science question. But the word of God has no historical basis for the tenets that make Christianity Christianity and, in fact, provides a false or contradictory history. The morality that is portrayed in the bible is a mixed bag of what current morality finds good and evil.

-pah-

 

[Orthodox]

Hey Pah,

The gospels are historically reliable (eg. they cannot be faulted as contrary to historical facts about the period). The quantity and quality of extant mss from the time period immediatley after Jesus' death is without rival.

What did you mean about the morality of the bible.

orthodox

 

[Pah]

Hey Pah,

The gospels are historically reliable (eg. they cannot be faulted as contrary to historical facts about the period). The quantity and quality of extant mss from the time period immediatley after Jesus' death is without rival.

They are historical only to the extent of giving a background of living in the times. Perhaps you'd like to detail the historical Bible (confirmed by soures external to the Bible) of the Nativity, the ascention, the resurrection or even the crucifixion, Moses, Abraham, the flood, the creation story. The is no history of these outside the Bible and all these events are crucial to Christianity.

What did you mean about the morality of the bible.

I reference the evil acts - the genocide, the infanticide, the incest, the harems, the suppression of women, the gentle act of banishment for murder, the holding of slaves, the allowance of the suffering of Job, and even the punishements under God's law.

-pah-

 

[scratch]

I think the word of the gospel or whatever contridicts alot when it comes to it talking about the existance of god.

I think all of you should read "A short history of nearly everything"

By bill bryson. That books good i haven't read it all yet but it explains pretty much a short history of everything. Except the good thing about it is, it tells about all the faults that scentists made and various mistakes in science. It also explains how a lot of controversy between science, religion and politics.

HOw some people were killed becuase of there scientific beliefs and theories , because religion couldn't handle there beliefs as such.

Now i know your gonna say that's a book just like the bible how can you believe its theories and facts over the bible. The reason i like this book and take to it's saying more than the bible is because, it's not trying to force any beliefs on me, also it doesn't contradict itself like the bible, it gives you clear cut intresting stuff about life. The bible kind of goes all off in some mumbling direction until you forget what it was talking about in the first place.

Cheer, Cheer.

 

[godischange]

Hmmm...sounds interesting. I defidently think it's worth looking into. How long is it? I'm kinda scrunched for time.

 

[Damori]

Does god exist?

Did you have a good day?

You can believe god exist like you believe you had a good day. Some people might not believe you had a good day, or that they had a bad day, but that is their day and not yours. They can't tell you how your day was because no day is the same for anybody.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Damori-- You would have to define "good day". Likewise, we need to define "god" in order to make a decision on his/her/its existence.

Pretty much this whole thread we have been implying the Judeo-Christian-Islamic God (an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent and all-good personal creator god)...however, there are many different gods that people believe in. For example, transcendentalists believe God = Nature. I believe in nature, so therefore I "beleive" in that definition of God. Likewise for the definitions "God is energy" or "God is love".

 

[scratch]

it's quite long but very good.

 

[roli]

If God was created then he who created him would then be a superior being and maybe it is him we will be accountable to

 

[roli]

Is anyone out there wanting to discuss different spiritual views

 

[painted wolf]

Can I say with 100% scientific accuracy that god exists? NO
Do I believe in 'god' anyway? Yes.

I dunno' I just get a special 'warm fuzzy' feeling when I'm doing my spiritual thing and getting closer to creator. Personally I think that is enough validation for me.

but don't get me wrong, science is cool too.

ps. roli, I think you will find most of us are here to do just that.

wa:do

 

[SoulTYPE]

Is anyone out there wanting to discuss different spiritual views

Come my way.

Anyways, God exists to those whom believe he exists. The best thing to explain this whole thing, is, If you want to believe in God, then he exists, to you.
If you don't believe in him, then to you he doesn't. It is all about the faith of your beliefs, people.