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does god exist?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by scratch, Aug 4, 2004.

  1. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    So, you are saying unless there is tangible evidence of a thing, it does not exist? I can understand that. Dinosaurs didn't exist until we discovered fossils, right? Millions of stars didn't exist, until we discovered the telescope. Basicly, one must see in order for one to believe, or as some put it, exist. Is this the great wisdom of science? Perhaps a God considers it foolishness. Just let each other believe in whatever they choose. You just keep your trust in science and things you see. And when the new science patch is available for download, why then, you'll be able to see more, won't you? because in my mind, every single law science has proven existed before mankind figured them out and man didn't "create" or set in motion those laws, instead a "higher power" or "something" must of.
     
  2. jesus_freak

    jesus_freak New Member

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    imagine you have 100 children. do you say "i don't give a crap about john because he's only one in one hundred". no, that's not what you say - you say "I love each of my children equally, i can't ignore any of my children".

    God who created all the planets, but cares for them all equally - and would surely care for the planet inhabited by the creations which brought glory to his name.
     
  3. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

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    YEAH~!!!!!!11one!!!! yeah!!!!

    all he did, supposedly was give us life.all we did, was disobey and earn death and a painful life.why would it be in his hands to cure us?

    concerning health, commandments given to his nation were very ahead of their time, there's no need for detail is there?

    great

    --S
     
  4. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    All that you can know of God with any certainty is bound up in the Bible. Faith, however, takes as it's source additional inputs. God creating the planets is a statement of faith not contained in the bible.

    Genesis 1:6-8 specifically says that waters are above the sky and in Genesis 1:14-17 that the sky contains all the stars. Got the picture so far? - earth, sky and waters with all the stars (and their planets) in the sky. The sky thus contains all the known universe. But there is water above the universe and that water was used to produce the flood in Genesis 7. The Noah story is the first reference to heaven and locates the heavens below the waters of the sky for the floodgates of the heavens were opened to provide the flood.

    What you are telling me, with the simple statement of "God created all the planets" is that the waters that created the flood flowed through the entire universe. I just love the image THAT projects.

    -pah-
     
  5. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

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    scripture(bible) states that 'god' created everything, heavens and earths and he even named the stars.

    i guess you just don't have any idea of what a 'god' would be capable of.let me give you a hint?it would be things we cannot or may not ever be able to explain.just because you can't explain this scientifically is supposed to disprove god?that's funny, i suggest you instead attack science/logics inability to explain how we came from dust, or how our planet formed from nothing, these things amaze alot more than a simple flood.gogo

    --S
     
  6. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    So you think death was part of the curse for Adam's disobeying God? Nowhere in Genesis 3:14-19 is mention made of death. A span of life ('all your days" in verse 17) is mentioned. The span of life was a characteristic of the creation for we know that animals and plants die and they were not cursed. The warning given in Genesis 2:17 referes to an immediate consequence ( a lie by the way, both the serpent and follwing events are witness to the truth).

    I also invite you to ponder what the tree of life was all about. Wasn't that, as some say, the gift of eternal life? Adam did not eat of that tree

    As to "why would it be in his hands to cure us". Do you think the resurrection was not a cure? Was that not given out of love? Did not Jesus cure the body out of love? Love has the element of caring in it and caring is not confined to a "mental state". Are you really saying that God's love is not caring?

    I think, since the first arguement was so poor, you would be better off supplying details.

    -pah-
     
  7. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    I just in awe of the inconsistency some Christians present in debate. One states that God cares for all his creation; the other, that God was indifferent after creating us.

    -pah-
     
  8. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    Are you conceding that there is water surrounding the universe?

    -pah-
     
  9. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

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    the ground was cursed on account of adam, pretty obviously this would mean that any and everything that lives by the ground will die.scripturally speaking though, you woulnd't know much about that since you claim adam's sin isn't scripturally the cause of death.

    i may ask why you closed your search to 5 verses, but then again, i know your objective.which is of course to prove me wrong by any means necessary, including intentionally missing something like this.
    Ro6:23
    ...For the wages of sin is death...

    Ro5:12
    ...It was through one man [Adam] that sin entered the world, and through sin death...

    poor argument anyone?pah?yeah, mk

    well...if your completed painting has a mistake or glitch, would it be a cure to the painting if you were to paint a new one?if your computer had a problem, but you could save the C drive and put it in a new computer, would this be a cure to the problem?the resurrection is a cure to our spirit, not our body, not diseases.

    by faith, bodies were cured, see the lady that only touched his clothes?did jesus do this?or was it her faith?

    i'm not sure just what you mean by this, but i am sure it is not confined to a physical state.
    where would you draw such a conclusion from?toppeling stick men proves nothing, stop misinterpreting me on purpose?or perhaps i am wrong to assume you are intelligent enough to comprehend this discussion.


    --S
     
  10. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    Tell ya what, Helpme. This is getting far off-topic. I'll start a thread in Religious Debates regarding the curse. You can bring the Roman's inconsistency there if you like.

    -pah-
     
  11. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    Giving up? How do you figure the statement that God creating the heavens and earths are not contained in Scripture? Either you have a 2004 new translation or your statement is out of ignorance. However I'm impressed that you have the reading ability to figure out Genesis 1:6-8, most never question it. Yes, the fountains of the deep lay beyond space but since you can't see that far it doesn't exist right? How does science explain the huge chunks of ice floating around in space?
     
  12. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

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    'god' could of taken water from any planet he wanted(which would not be in contradiction to a statement which says "the water/stars/ect. are out there"), or simply made it from nothing like in the beginning.he also could of surrounded the planet with water before if he wanted to, i find it funny that you always always try to limit the supreme being, very funny.

    how could concede?that would be like saying 'i know' instead of 'i believe'.

    yeah, some believe in the 'bible' some believe in the church some believe in the nt some believe in the nt, some in both, some believe in the trinity, some are unitariansome believe in the quran, some believe in the torah, some believe in sun worship(yes i know of christians whom hold the sun is the supreme being).


    --S
     
  13. (Q)

    (Q) Active Member

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    if science had proven as you say "we can exist without a surpeme being", then i ask how?

    Science hasn't proven anything, that is your flawed assumption. Science has simply found evidence to suggest our existence was self-generated, that no 'supreme being' was required to initiate our existence, and that no evidence has ever been found to suggest a 'supreme being' had anything to do with our existence.

    since they haven't figured many trivial things out besides the more pressing "how have we come to exist?"

    Again, it is your flawed assumption that science has learned all there is to learn.
     
  14. (Q)

    (Q) Active Member

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    i guess you just don't have any idea of what a 'god' would be capable of.let me give you a hint?

    And we are to assume you do know what your gods are capable?

    i suggest you instead attack science/logics inability to explain how we came from dust, or how our planet formed from nothing, these things amaze alot more than a simple flood.gogo

    Those things have been explained based on the evidence available. Quite clearly, you have made no attempt to understand those explanations, hence are in no position to comment on their validity.

    i find it funny that you always always try to limit the supreme being, very funny.

    I find it hilarious you are making things up as you go along in order to support your argument.
     
  15. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

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    am i the one agreeing with science?oh yeah...no.

    ^OH MY!PLEEEASE SHOW.^would they happen to have life coming from non-life?truly amazing, don't know how i missed that, unless i didn't...

    that is quite obviously a matter of faith, place it in science or a supreme being.the existence of everything is evidence according to believers, so...

    again, this is your misinterpretation(sp), though perhaps purposeful so as to make the argument easier, that i agree with what i accuse others of believing.

    know?no, i have no idea, no clue, suffice to say i know that i know nothing.a supreme being is capable of anything by definition, pick up a dictionary?

    ^SEE ABOVE^, tell me all about the gas ball.
    this statement is as hollow as they come, and is only made because i disagree with you.
    ...if...YOU?...say so
    what did i make up?or did you just make that up?

    --S
     
  16. (Q)

    (Q) Active Member

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    am i the one agreeing with science?oh yeah...no.

    Yet, you are perfectly willing to use in your daily life all that science has to offer. Theists remain the ultimate hypocrites.

    OH MY!PLEEEASE SHOW.^would they happen to have life coming from non-life?truly amazing, don't know how i missed that

    You must have missed it - most likely by not taking the time and effort to find out and understand.

    that is quite obviously a matter of faith, place it in science or a supreme being

    Sorry, but that kind of faith has no place in science, never did and never will.

    the existence of everything is evidence according to believers

    Really? So, how is it they came to the conclusion of gods? What is it exactly that linked the existence of the universe to the hand-waving of a god?

    know?no, i have no idea, no clue, suffice to say i know that i know nothing.a supreme being is capable of anything by definition, pick up a dictionary?

    Then a supreme being is capable of curing all the diseases that inflict mankind, providing food for starving children, stopping wars, etc. Are these things too trivial for your supreme being?

    tell me all about the gas ball.

    I'm not here to provide you an education. If you can't take the time and effort to understand those things yourself, then that is your problem.

    this statement is as hollow as they come, and is only made because i disagree with you.

    I see, and your disagreement is based on something tangible?
     
  17. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

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    what would this be?i'm guessing you're an atheist, excuse me if i'm wrong, but wouldn't that include you in your generalization of theists?

    it's there?show?no?life from non-life, as proven by science, i'm so anxious to see this.

    well you say so, there are scientists that disagree, egos and all.

    how did it all start?even before life, the nonliving rocks, how did they come to be Q?

    well if you believe in the scriptures(bible) then...no you can't be serious can you?the supreme being tells his creatures how they came to be, rather simple.

    yeah?trivial no, but not at the moment necessary.this is all as far as i am concerned proof that as the scriptures state "man rules man to his own demise".

    i actually have no problem, i have a hold on how it started and reason to believe beyong speculation.remember when the world was flat?me too.

    tangible=Discernible by the touch

    no sir, as i have stated, the scriptures(bible) say out religion is based upon faith.i believe our messiah said "blessed are those whom believe without seeing or touching" or something to that effect, i'm sure you get the point.it is a wonderful day to day isn't it?

    --S
     
  18. (Q)

    (Q) Active Member

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    what would this be?

    Sorry, you really need me to answer that question? Are you living in a cave?

    i'm so anxious to see this.

    Then you should get busy, you have much to learn.

    there are scientists that disagree, egos and all.

    What scientists? Who exactly?

    how did they come to be Q?

    I'm not here to give you an education. Read a book other than the bible.

    the supreme being tells his creatures how they came to be, rather simple.

    And of course, you swallowed that up without hesitation. Rather simple indeed.

    Who did this supreme being talk to and tell of these miraculous things? What did he look like?

    trivial no, but not at the moment necessary.

    Not necessary to rid the world of disease, stop hunger, poverty, pestulance and war? You're kidding, right?

    i am concerned proof that as the scriptures state "man rules man to his own demise".

    Diseases are not mans creation - according to your logic, they are gods creation. Man dies from diseases - man is doing everything he can to combat these diseases. So, we are combating gods creations, nes't pas?

    Would you care if you had a terminal disease? Would you simply give in to the disease because its gods will and gods creation? Or would you go see a doctor?

    i have a hold on how it started and reason to believe beyong speculation

    That's nice, but there are a lot of people who believe in things not founded in reality, they are living their own fantasies. Are you not interested whether or not you are living a fantasy?

    remember when the world was flat?me too.

    No, I don't. But its interesting to note that Christians in the Middle Ages thought the world was flat even though the Greeks had made measurements of the Earths circumference hundreds of years prior.

    no sir, as i have stated, the scriptures(bible) say out religion is based upon faith.

    Of course it does, there is no other way in which to synthesize its content and not believe.
     
  19. Wcca

    Wcca New Member

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    I'll tell you who created GOD

    I DID !!!

    Seriously, I'm the Messiah (IF christians know, I have returned to tell you that your all gonna burn in hell for killing innoncent lives in the past !!!) :D

    Nah I'm just messing but Christians are so gullible and only believe in a book thats pretty weird. :confused:

    I was once a christian but since i could remember i left because it just wasn't right and wasn't nice either !!! All those evil lessons they teach to kill innoncent people. :p
     
  20. scratch

    scratch Member

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    About the ice floating in space isn't that just gases that have formed far away from any form of heat e.g star e.t.c. I dunno i am not any scientist.

    The point is I think that believing in something made from the mass of human existance just seems like brainwashing, following the sheep. The bible justs seems to change opinion every 2 chapters.

    Then you guys get really emotional, getting all defensive, thinking maybe theres a point to all these facts, maybe AARRGGH. Then you get all pissy and go and get all angry aND judgemental.

    And no science hasn't proven everything but its doing alright for itself


    BAHHH.
     
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