1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

does god exist?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by scratch, Aug 4, 2004.

  1. scratch

    scratch Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Messages:
    35
    Ratings:
    +1
    but if good loves us then why does he/she feel sorry and grieved that he/he created us. Do we have to pay the rest of forever cause some guy named adam ate an apple from some snake or something like that, one little mistake and bam. No more nice forests and delicious birds to eat.

    I just think that most of the things you've said contradict itself.
     
  2. Linus

    Linus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    1,211
    Ratings:
    +132
    God isn't grieved any more. He was grieved in Genesis 6 because the poeple at that time only had evil thoughts all the time, and the only righteous people around were Noah and his family. Nowadays there are people in the world who want to do good. God sees that and knows that the good has a chance to spread.

    We pay for our own sins. If we never sin we won't have to go to Hell. But We do sin so God gives us an avenue of escape from it. The problem is we always go back.

    What have I said that's contradictory?
     
  3. scratch

    scratch Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Messages:
    35
    Ratings:
    +1
    but everything in life that is enjoyable seems to be a sin, and most people do sin.
    Even telvandulism I think is a sin. Everything your saying is a contracdiction, god hates us but loves us. YOu have a choice but if you make the wrong one u go to hell, what choice? You can't question god that's just a loophole religion has put in place so that you'll never question anyway in higher power again.

    It's all so controlling and manipulative
     
  4. Lightkeeper

    Lightkeeper Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    4,634
    Ratings:
    +223
    This is a very surface explanation of religion. There are much deeper levels.
     
  5. scratch

    scratch Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Messages:
    35
    Ratings:
    +1
    But to me religion seems too much like a way of controlling people. I'm glad it brings other people joy, but the origins i think are based around the idea of governements controlling masses, by saying if you do bad things or disobey us and this will strike you down.

    The thing that pisses me of and i'm sure most christians don't agree with it. Is those people on the street who hand out pamphets, threaten me and try to force the christian religion, that i think is not the best way of getting people to conform to the religion.
     
  6. Lightkeeper

    Lightkeeper Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    4,634
    Ratings:
    +223
    I don't think we have to conform to religion. I think we can do whatever we want to do. I don't let people like that deter me from finding my own answers or my own way. How you run your life is your business.
     
  7. Linus

    Linus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    1,211
    Ratings:
    +132
    Yes most people do sin, even those who follow Him. That is why God has given us His word... so that we may overcome sin.

    Not in itself, no. But if you do it for the wrong reasons(i.e. to make mone like most of them) then yes it would be.

    When did I say that? God doesn't hate us. He loves us. He hates our sin. He hates evil.

    The choice to do right or the choice to do wrong.

    But I already said before that I have questioned God. But the answer I came up with through my searching is this: Don't question God.
     
  8. scratch

    scratch Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Messages:
    35
    Ratings:
    +1
    linus the answers you gave me are kind of vague and seem not really to answer my question, some of them just repeat what i have said. That's not really a choice, to choose right or wrong, that's sort of like god forcing you to choose right, hmm believe on god or have a bad afterlife, doesn't seem like that's much of a choice. Lighthouse you make a good point about the people on the street with pamhplets.
     
  9. Linus

    Linus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    1,211
    Ratings:
    +132

    You're right, scratch. It isn't much of a choice. But it is a choice none the less. You are completely free to choose to do whatever you like. The thing is that God might not like the choice you make. And besides, why would you want to have a bad afterlife?
     
  10. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    19,780
    Ratings:
    +1,929
    "Do what I tell you, or I will kill you!"......There is no free choice in that.
     
  11. scratch

    scratch Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Messages:
    35
    Ratings:
    +1
    I don't wanna have a bad afterlife. Personally I don't believe in heaven or ****. I have no solid thoughts on the afterlife. I like the idea of mexican catholosism, I think thats it. That one must go (depending on the cir***stances of death) A four year journey of the soul, where once that person has travelled through the nine underworlds, then they can reach a better afterlife. That way you can make up for a bad life. But that is not my solid foundation of belief its just a good thought.

    Also i don't wanna have a bad afterlife. But according to most christian religions you have to hae the most boring life here in order to ascend to some greater life. So what if your belief is wrong i'm not saying it is, what if then?
     
  12. Linus

    Linus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    1,211
    Ratings:
    +132
    I don't think it's a boring life at all. It is a clean, pure, life. It is possible to have fun without drugs or alcohol. I have been a christian for four years now and I have plenty of fun. But that's just my opinion and my personal experience.

    And If my belief is wrong? I guess if that were the case then It would depend on which other belief is right. I dunno. At least I will have died knowing that I lived a clean, respectable life.

    And maize, no there isn't much of a choice. But that's the way it is when you're raising children. Do what I say. Why? Because I'll ground you that's why. Parents know what is best for their children whether the children realize it or not.
     
  13. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2004
    Messages:
    3,768
    Ratings:
    +399
    Parents usually know whats best due to their life experience, but they are not infallible. Parents often make wrong decisions when raising their kids.
     
  14. Linus

    Linus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    1,211
    Ratings:
    +132
    But God is not infallible. God is perfect (Deuteronomy 32:4, 2 Samuel 22:31, Psalm 18:30, Job 37:16). God certainly knows what is best for us, Not just because He is perfect, But because He created and designed us. A creator knows what his/her creation needs and what is best for it, egardless of whether they are perfect or not.
     
  15. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2004
    Messages:
    3,768
    Ratings:
    +399
    But why won't god explain things? If he has to show tough love, why does he just say 'because I said so"?
     
  16. Linus

    Linus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    1,211
    Ratings:
    +132
    I do not know the answer. Maybe He does say why somewhere in the Bible, but I am not familiar with the passage or passages. But I do not know God's mind so I cannot tell you why God does things the way He does.
     
  17. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2004
    Messages:
    3,768
    Ratings:
    +399
    So you are assuming he has your best interests at heart?
     
  18. Linus

    Linus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    1,211
    Ratings:
    +132
    Of course. John 3:16 tells how much God loves us. God is love after all.
     
  19. scratch

    scratch Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Messages:
    35
    Ratings:
    +1
    who is this john and how does he know what god said? How do we know god is love, religion and god have been responsible for many of the gruesome and hatefilled wars.
     
  20. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2004
    Messages:
    3,768
    Ratings:
    +399
    So god is love because god says he is love? Alright then...I am a millionaire because I say I am a millionaire...crap, it's not working.

    Do you really find contentment in circular reasoning?
     
Loading...