Does Free Will Exist?

[Skwim]

I think free will doesn't exist, but we're hard wired to believe it does.

For one thing, we are brought up with the idea free will exists, and have reinforcing experiences, principally that others hold us responsible for what we do, which implant our thinking with the idea the FW is valid. So, although I've never considered FW to be hard wired within us, (?) I do believe we're inculcated with it.

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[robocop (actually)]

For one thing, we are brought up with the idea free will exists, and have reinforcing experiences, principally that others hold us responsible for what we do, which implant our thinking with the idea the FW is valid. So, although I've never considered FW to be hard wired within us, (?) I do believe we're inculcated with it.

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No, it's not something we're taught. We're just wired for it.

 

[Nimos]

What he is saying is you don't have the a ability to make other choices, because you made the choice you made.....

That is not exactly what he is saying, he say that you "made" the choice you did, because that is what you want, and since we as humans can't choose what we want or don't want, there is no free will.

So to really understand what he is saying, one need to understand what he means with "making" a choice, and that this is actually done in reverse order of what people think it is.

A person might say, "I choose to eat the orange rather than the apple". But to understand it correctly, you would have to realize that the reason you chose the orange is because you wanted it more than the apple at that given point. But why you wanted the orange more is out of your control and therefore there is no free will.

 

[Skwim]

No, it's not something we're taught. We're just wired for it.

Interesting. And your evidence is _________________________________________________________ .

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[Skwim]

That is not exactly what he is saying, he say that you "made" the choice you did, because that is what you want, and since we as humans can't choose what we want or don't want, there is no free will.

So to really understand what he is saying, one need to understand what he means with "making" a choice, and that this is actually done in reverse order of what people think it is.

A person might say, "I choose to eat the orange rather than the apple". But to understand it correctly, you would have to realize that the reason you chose the orange is because you wanted it more than the apple at that given point. But why you wanted the orange more is out of your control and therefore there is no free will.

Nicely put.

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[syo]

A person might say, "I choose to eat the orange rather than the apple". But to understand it correctly, you would have to realize that the reason you chose the orange is because you wanted it more than the apple at that given point. But why you wanted the orange more is out of your control and therefore there is no free will.

I disagree. We make the criteria. There are cases where we must interact.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Interesting. And your evidence is _________________________________________________________ .

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The fact that I think I feel myself alive right now... I can remember back to when I was 2... nobody taught me that... I just feel it.

But it's just something we're hard-wired to feel.

 

[Skwim]

I disagree. We make the criteria. There are cases where we must interact.

And just how did these criteria come into being? Did they randomly spring into existence or were they caused? If they were caused what caused them, and what caused that cause? And what caused that cause? And what caused . . . . . See what's happening, you can't jump out of the chain of cause/effect. There is no free will that can be shoe-horned into the process as a last, ultimate reason because even the conclusion of the will, (the capacity to act decisively on one's desires), demands a cause.

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[Enoch07]

Or maybe not. How can either of us tell?

I asked you a question which would tell.

How do you know that there are any such situations at all? Out of faith alone? Because it feels right?

Because if you answered my question it would give you the answer of if free will exist or not.

Which is why you are avoiding answering it.

I'll repeat.

Was you forced by someone else to make you're first post?

If you answer yes, we shall call the police and send help your way. And then test again.

If you answer no, then free will exist.

 

[Nimos]

I disagree. We make the criteria. There are cases where we must interact.

Like what for instance?

 

[syo]

Like what for instance?

We have the ability to eat the apple. We also have the ability to eat the orange. These two alone are options. We are born in this world to cultivate a path out of options.

 

[LuisDantas]

I asked you a question which would tell.

No, you did not. You stated what you believed to be the case. I saw and still see nothing to support that.

Because if you answered my question it would give you the answer of if free will exist or not.

Which is why you are avoiding answering it.

No. It was because it had no meaning.

I'll repeat.

Was you forced by someone else to make you're first post?

If you answer yes, we shall call the police and send help your way. And then test again.

If you answer no, then free will exist.

And you know that because...?

 

[Enoch07]

That is not exactly what he is saying, he say that you "made" the choice you did, because that is what you want, and since we as humans can't choose what we want or don't want, there is no free will.

I want to snort coke off a prostitutes rear while gambling my life savings away.

I chose not to because snorting coke off a hooker rear in Vegas is detrimental to my health.

Free will exercised and proven.

Free will is the ability to chose a different path than is natural for you.

This is why its dangerous to deny it.

If no free will someone can rape and murder as much as they want. Then declare "i had no choice, it was just something i wanted to do".

 

[Koldo]

You are exercising your free will now.

Unless someone else forced you to make that post.

This road of doubting free will has very dangerous implications.

If ever it should become mainstream thought (no free will). You run the risk of people committing crimes then saying they had to do it, they had no choice, it was their destiny. And since the idea of free will no longer exist, you can't hold somebody responsible for something they had no control over.

All because "I had no choice your honor" "it was just something I had to do".

"And I have no choice except to punish you. It is just something I have to do." would say the judge.

Honestly though there are only implications to the retributive justice. Deterrence and rehabilitation remain intact.

 

[Enoch07]

No, you did not. You stated what you believed to be the case. I saw and still see nothing to support that.

I did, and then I asked again.

No. It was because it had no meaning.

It has meaning, you just refuse because it proves you wrong.

 

[Koldo]

I want to snort coke off a prostitutes rear while gambling my life savings away.

I chose not to because snorting coke off a hooker rear in Vegas is detrimental to my health.

Free will exercised and proven.

Free will is the ability to chose a different path than is natural for you.

This is why its dangerous to deny it.

If no free will someone can rape and murder as much as they want. Then declare "i had no choice, it was just something i wanted to do".

Do you mean you want to preserve your health more than you want to gamble your life savings ?

 

[Enoch07]

"And I have no choice except to punish you. It is just something I have to do.

Ah but the judge has the ability to chose innocent.

Or why else have judges? If you believe the judge can only chose guilty, we might as well just have executioners.

But it's not the case, more evidence free will exist.

 

[syo]

And just how did these criteria come into being?

examining the options.

 

[Enoch07]

Do you mean you want to preserve your health more than you want to gamble your life savings ?

No, I'm a dead man walking already. Rare auto-immune disease. Nothing I can do will preserve my health (no cure just treat the symptoms). I'd love nothing more than go out in a blaze of glory. But I chose to not to.

 

[charlie sc]

What about all the people with body dysmorphic disorder? For instance, someone with anorexia cannot choose to see themselves as dangerously underweight even though that’s what they are.