That is simply not at all true.
To our respective satisfactions, at least. But clearly not to the point of some agreement.
Whatever you say.
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Does Free Will Cause Wars?
- Thread starter james bond
- Start date
That is simply not at all true.
To our respective satisfactions, at least. But clearly not to the point of some agreement.
Whatever you say.
Skwim
Veteran Member
james bond
Well-Known Member
Why? Is Joel a muslim? No surprise he is not so polular in North Europe. Everybody eats pork here.
Ooh, the Almighty needs worshippers who are not robots. I am sure His Ego would not be so excited if worshippers are programmed to do so. Of course, as the creator of the Universe I need free willed worshippers, that is why I created the whole Universe, for Thor's sake. It was so depressing here before all those worshippers.
Well, does that mean that the angels are not so into eating pigs crap, either?
Ciao
- viole
According to Rev. Joel, the toxins a pig eats does not get a chance to be filtered through the swine digestive system as it is too fast. The toxins end up staying in the fat. If you notice cooking pork fat turns black. I think that's the toxins the pig was not able to process. Thus, eating too much pork could lead to health problems and early death. I've been able to substitute for bacon with turkey bacon, but I can't find one for ribs. I can pass up the Italian cold cuts and never been a fan of pepperoni on pizza. Italian sausage can be substituted with better sausages. I still love shellfish and shrimp. I can only eat those in moderation, but maybe it's better to give them up and eat more vegetables.
There's a controversy over this as some claim the dietary restrictions are for Jews only. That doesn't make any sense.
Question: "What does the Bible say about what foods we should eat (kosher)? Are there foods a Christian should avoid?"
Answer: Leviticus chapter 11 lists the dietary restrictions God gave to the nation of Israel. The dietary laws included prohibitions against eating pork, shrimp, shellfish and many types of seafood, most insects, scavenger birds, and various other animals. The dietary rules were never intended to apply to anyone other than the Israelites. The purpose of the food laws was to make the Israelites distinct from all other nations. After this purpose had ended, Jesus declared all foods clean (Mark 7:19). God gave the apostle Peter a vision in which He declared that formerly unclean animals could be eaten: “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean” (Acts 10:15). When Jesus died on the cross, He fulfilled the Old Testament law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:24-26; Ephesians 2:15). This includes the laws regarding clean and unclean foods.
Romans 14:1-23 teaches us that not everyone is mature enough in the faith to accept the fact that all foods are clean. As a result, if we are with someone who would be offended by our eating “unclean” food, we should give up our right to do so as to not offend the other person. We have the right to eat whatever we want, but we do not have the right to offend other people, even if they are wrong. For the Christian in this age, though, we have freedom to eat whatever we wish as long as it does not cause someone else to stumble in his/her faith.
In the New Covenant of grace, the Bible is far more concerned with how much we eat than what foods Christians eat. Physical appetites are an analogy of our ability to control ourselves. If we are unable to control our eating habits, we are probably also unable to control other habits such as those of the mind (lust, covetousness, unrighteous hatred/anger) and unable to keep our mouths from gossip or strife. As Christians, are not to let our appetites control us; rather, we are to control them (Deuteronomy 21:20; Proverbs 23:2; 2 Peter 1:5-7; 2 Timothy 3:1-9; 2 Corinthians 10:5).
What does the Bible say about what foods we should eat (kosher)? Are there foods a Christian should avoid?
james bond
Well-Known Member
james bond
Well-Known Member
Maybe you can text me a message of what parts are wrong in the afterlife. I already know what I'm going to send, "I told ya so."
james bond
Well-Known Member
My posts usually don not get agreement except from some Christians or conservative believers. As for world peace, I think that's an ideal. It would mean a perfect society or world. We always seem to value perfection and admire it since we lost it in the Garden of Eden. Maybe it's further evidence for God. I believe our quest for perfection is evidence for God.
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
I believe you're right.
Bird123
Well-Known Member
I think all people are for world peace, but we have not had world peace in anyone's lifetime. In Christianity, God gave free will to the angels and it caused war in heaven. Later, God gave free will to humans and it led to the fall. I don't think the fall led to war. The fall led to:
intrusion, death, disease, pain, suffering, emotional anguish, but not war. One could argue that war outputs the aforementioned so they're related. Yet, what caused war in the first place? It wasn't sin. It was free will. Thus, how could a perfect world still have had free will, but no war?
Free will does not cause wars. It's very simple. Ignorance causes wars.
Ponder This
Well-Known Member
"Does Free Will Cause Wars?"
I can imagine a world where no one has free will and wars exist.
So I don't think that free will causes wars.
I can also imagine a world where no one has free will and there are no wars.
All that free will means is that we get to make some choices.
What causes wars?
It's been going on for a long time as one method to resolve political or territorial disputes. People disagree, argue, can't resolve the issue peacefully, and then fight each other. Every reason that exists for two people to fight each other is another potential reason.
I can imagine a world where no one has free will and wars exist.
So I don't think that free will causes wars.
I can also imagine a world where no one has free will and there are no wars.
All that free will means is that we get to make some choices.
What causes wars?
It's been going on for a long time as one method to resolve political or territorial disputes. People disagree, argue, can't resolve the issue peacefully, and then fight each other. Every reason that exists for two people to fight each other is another potential reason.
james bond
Well-Known Member
Bird123
Well-Known Member
Perhaps when you experience war first hand you will realize that war is not an intelligent act. The evidence stares you in the face.
james bond
Well-Known Member
Again, you have nothing to back up your claim that ignorance causes wars. It's power, bullying, fighting for resources, black vs white division, and now atheism leading to Communism that will cause wars. It's free will.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
I think all people are for world peace, but we have not had world peace in anyone's lifetime. In Christianity, God gave free will to the angels and it caused war in heaven. Later, God gave free will to humans and it led to the fall. I don't think the fall led to war. The fall led to:
intrusion, death, disease, pain, suffering, emotional anguish, but not war. One could argue that war outputs the aforementioned so they're related. Yet, what caused war in the first place? It wasn't sin. It was free will. Thus, how could a perfect world still have had free will, but no war?
Isaiah 59:8
The way of peace they do not know; there is no justice in their paths. They have turned them into crooked roads; no one who walks along them will know peace.
Romans 3:10-18
As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
“Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
“Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
ruin and misery mark their ways,
and the way of peace they do not know.”
“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
Based on the two verses we can conclude that
- The diversity of religions and denominations are crooked paths
- Mankind is evil does not know the way of peace because he does not fear God
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one
james bond
Well-Known Member
Isaiah 59:8
The way of peace they do not know; there is no justice in their paths. They have turned them into crooked roads; no one who walks along them will know peace.
Romans 3:10-18
As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
“Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
“Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
ruin and misery mark their ways,
and the way of peace they do not know.”
“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
Based on the two verses we can conclude that
Is it free will? No. It is because -
- The diversity of religions and denominations are crooked paths
- Mankind is evil does not know the way of peace because he does not fear God
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one
View attachment 18178
>>Is it free will? No. It is because -
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one<<
To turn away is free will.
james bond
Well-Known Member
Ok, I'm getting bombed.
I'm not disagreeing with your post, but free will is what allows one to make that choice. To choose evil instead of good. To choose ignorance when provided with knowledge.
Free will may not be a direct cause, but an indirect one.
If we have free will, then how does ignorance cause wars?
If we do not have free will, i.e. our choices are predetermined, then how does ignorance cause war?
james bond
Well-Known Member
It's not a direct cause, but an indirect one. Just because we have free will does not mean that there will be wars. However, to have war, we would have to have some disagreement or choice on the opposing viewpoints.
james bond
Well-Known Member
Here's a blog about this. However, it asks,
Does religion cause wars?
"Critics often argue that religion causes wars and thus human suffering. But does history support this, or not?
I have been able to find several authoritative works on the topic, most by neutral historians, and they generally give similar answers. About 6-10% of all wars considered have significant or predominantly religious causes. Religion was a component in many wars, but the main causes are differences in culture and greed for territory, resources or power.
It turns out that in recent times atheistic political regimes have started more wars than has religion. Both religion and atheism can be used by authoritarian or aggressive governments to support wars.
What the critics say
It is obvious that many factors lead to wars, and thus testing the claim that religion causes wars is difficult. Here is a summary of the best studies I could find:
University of Bradford
Researchers from the Department of Peace Studies, University of Bradford were commissioned by the BBC to summarise the historical evidence. Their findings were published in God and War: an Audit & an Exploration (2003).
The audit considers 73 major wars in the past 3 millennia, 32 of which took place in the twentieth century. It tests whether religion had a part in causing each war by examining factors such as support for the war by religious leaders and the use of religious motivation by political leaders. This is the most thorough and expert assessment I could find. Its assessments are subjective but the results are clear, and perhaps surprising:
this study has concluded that very few if any wars in the past 100 years have been purely religious wars. ….. Despite the negativity around the role of religion in violent conflict, this study has demonstrated that the picture is much more complicated."
Does religion cause wars?
Does religion cause wars?
"Critics often argue that religion causes wars and thus human suffering. But does history support this, or not?
I have been able to find several authoritative works on the topic, most by neutral historians, and they generally give similar answers. About 6-10% of all wars considered have significant or predominantly religious causes. Religion was a component in many wars, but the main causes are differences in culture and greed for territory, resources or power.
It turns out that in recent times atheistic political regimes have started more wars than has religion. Both religion and atheism can be used by authoritarian or aggressive governments to support wars.
What the critics say
- Professor of Religious Studies, Charles Kimball: More wars have been waged, more people killed, and more evil perpetrated in the name of religion than by any other institutional force in human history. The sad truth continues in our present day.
- Richard Dawkins: My point is not that religion itself is the motivation for wars, murders and terrorist attacks, but that religion is the principal label, and the most dangerous one, by which a “they” as opposed to a “we” can be identified at all.
- Anonymous atheist on About.com: we see religion regularly used for war, mass murder, terrorism, and even genocide
It is obvious that many factors lead to wars, and thus testing the claim that religion causes wars is difficult. Here is a summary of the best studies I could find:
University of Bradford
Researchers from the Department of Peace Studies, University of Bradford were commissioned by the BBC to summarise the historical evidence. Their findings were published in God and War: an Audit & an Exploration (2003).
The audit considers 73 major wars in the past 3 millennia, 32 of which took place in the twentieth century. It tests whether religion had a part in causing each war by examining factors such as support for the war by religious leaders and the use of religious motivation by political leaders. This is the most thorough and expert assessment I could find. Its assessments are subjective but the results are clear, and perhaps surprising:
- Only 7 (10%) of all the wars (and the same percentage of 20th century wars) had clear religious motivation, and most had no detectable religious motivation at all. Even the Arab-Israeli wars, which had a religious component, were judged to be not primarily religious, but nationalistic.
- The 20th century war with the greatest religious motivation (as stated by US president George W Bush) was the second Gulf War when the US and allies invaded Iraq.
- In the 20th century, “Atheistic totalitarian states (Stalin’s Russia and Mao’s China) have perpetrated more mass murder than any state dominated by a religious faith.”. The worst war in this century, the Second World War, was judged to have only minor religious causes.
- The authors also note the positive role of religion in the past century in pressing for non-violent resolution of conflicts.
this study has concluded that very few if any wars in the past 100 years have been purely religious wars. ….. Despite the negativity around the role of religion in violent conflict, this study has demonstrated that the picture is much more complicated."
Does religion cause wars?
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
Karl Stromberg said in "The Spy Who Loved Me"
The Spy Who Loved Me (film) - Wikipedia
Come on, Mr. Bond. Within minutes New York and Moscow will cease to exist, global destruction will follow and a new era will begin. I’m not interested in extortion, I want to change the face of history. Today, civilization as we know it is corrupt and decadent. Inevitably it will destroy itself – I’m merely accelerating the process.
Even the movies reflect this, Mr. Bond!
Thief
Rogue Theologian
God gave Man dominionI think all people are for world peace, but we have not had world peace in anyone's lifetime. In Christianity, God gave free will to the angels and it caused war in heaven. Later, God gave free will to humans and it led to the fall. I don't think the fall led to war. The fall led to:
intrusion, death, disease, pain, suffering, emotional anguish, but not war. One could argue that war outputs the aforementioned so they're related. Yet, what caused war in the first place? It wasn't sin. It was free will. Thus, how could a perfect world still have had free will, but no war?
that practice was intended to be used to subdue this world....and learn of reality in doing so
Man turned on his fellowman
oooops
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
Animals do not have free will
Still these creatures are capable of attacking humans and each other.
I think the only difference is humans is more organized
Much more capable of making WMD
Much more capable of inventing efficient ways to kill
If animals have that, I'm sure animal wars aren't far off.
So what causes wars?
Psalm 140:1-2
Rescue me, Lord, from evildoers;
protect me from the violent,
who devise evil plans in their hearts
and stir up war every day.
Genesis 6:5
The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time.
Still these creatures are capable of attacking humans and each other.
I think the only difference is humans is more organized
Much more capable of making WMD
Much more capable of inventing efficient ways to kill
If animals have that, I'm sure animal wars aren't far off.
So what causes wars?
Psalm 140:1-2
Rescue me, Lord, from evildoers;
protect me from the violent,
who devise evil plans in their hearts
and stir up war every day.
Genesis 6:5
The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time.