Does Biology make sense without Darwin?

[Jumi]

No invention of practical benefit to mankind inherently rests on evolution to the exclusion of other creationary or intelligent design views... nada... zip

Sadly intelligent design or creationism has not brought anything to the table so far and evolution has. Whether you believe it to be God's mechanism of creation or without God altogether, should be more of a debate. Creationism without evolution is like watching creationists score points in their own goal all day, everyday, without realizing it. And people wonder why people are abandoning the team... easy answer, just look for the ones who don't know the game.

 

[nPeace]

I don't understand your point.

My point is, Biology is not the study of evolution. It's the study of life and living organisms. Therefore, Biology exists apart from evolution.
It is the study of living organisms that advances knowledge in medicine, etc.

As with one who works on motor vehicles. Whatever knowledge is gained, is due to the fact that the motor vehicle is designed to work the way it does.

Life is designed to work the way it does, minus the flaws that crept in per various actions, or reasons.

Biomimetics exists due to the fact that things in nature work as they were designed to.

I hope you understand.

 

[Subduction Zone]

My point is, Biology is not the study of evolution. It's the study of life and living organisms. Therefore, Biology exists apart from evolution.
It is the study of living organisms that advances knowledge in medicine, etc.

As with one who works on motor vehicles. Whatever knowledge is gained, is due to the fact that the motor vehicle is designed to work the way it does.

Life is designed to work the way it does, minus the flaws that crept in per various actions, or reasons.

Biomimetics exists due to the fact that things in nature work as they were designed to.

I hope you understand.

The problem is that biology is largely meaningless without the theory. You can only scrape the surface of the science and there will be no deeper understanding of the why and how if one does not investigate the evolutionary roots to almost all of biology.

 

[Audie]

Well modern scientists who I've appreciated at least have left their ideological isms at the door.

The important thing is that in science, meticulous care
and complete objectivity are at least among the goals,
highest values. They have to be for no other reason than
the shame and career harm from poor work.

For the creationist, the opposite is true. Any made up
misrepresented phony work will do. Paluxy man tracks.
Grand canyon made by flood.
Objectivity is imposdible if your story has to be true.
You go in with mind made up, and a group of like minded
to validste. What chance does lil ol objectivity have?
Let alone some of that boring data!


This is because for one thing the highest value is faith,
faith despite any and all against it.

They aee of course further handicapped by having no
data to support their case.

 

[ecco]

As with one who works on motor vehicles. Whatever knowledge is gained, is due to the fact that the motor vehicle is designed to work the way it does.

No. Whatever knowledge is gained is due to the fact that people pondered and found better ways.

• Disk brakes were not invented due to the fact that the motor vehicle is designed to work the way it does.
• Fuel injection was not developed due to the fact that the motor vehicle is designed to work the way it does.
• Lane change warning systems and backup cameras due to the fact that the motor vehicle is designed to work the way it does.

All these things came about because people sought to improve on current knowledge. People like Mendel and Darwin.

 

[Sunstone]

My point is, Biology is not the study of evolution. It's the study of life and living organisms. Therefore, Biology exists apart from evolution.

That is nonsense, of course. Evolution explains the diversity of life. Note the word "life" there.

Life is designed to work the way it does, minus the flaws that crept in per various actions, or reasons.

Biomimetics exists due to the fact that things in nature work as they were designed to.

I hope you understand.

I understand that you are introducing unfalsifiable speculations. Do you understand that?

 

[nPeace]

No. Whatever knowledge is gained is due to the fact that people pondered and found better ways.

• Disk brakes were not invented due to the fact that the motor vehicle is designed to work the way it does.
• Fuel injection was not developed due to the fact that the motor vehicle is designed to work the way it does.
• Lane change warning systems and backup cameras due to the fact that the motor vehicle is designed to work the way it does.

All these things came about because people sought to improve on current knowledge. People like Mendel and Darwin.

people sought to improve on current knowledge

of what? Thank you.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

Why not?

We still have the study of genus species and so on, the cataloguing of plants and animals, and the story of thousands of years of creatures. We simply don't have Darwin's ideas. We still have Linnaeus and his classification system, we just assume that creatures branch out as offshoots of other creatures rather than seeing them as evolved forms.

That is, there are still 802 Pokemon, but they don't evolve from each other.

 

[Valjean]

My point is, Biology is not the study of evolution. It's the study of life and living organisms. Therefore, Biology exists apart from evolution.
It is the study of living organisms that advances knowledge in medicine, etc.

The ToE explains the mechanisms underlying all the various subdivisions of biology. It explains how biological processes developed and spread.

As with one who works on motor vehicles. Whatever knowledge is gained, is due to the fact that the motor vehicle is designed to work the way it does.

Life is designed to work the way it does, minus the flaws that crept in per various actions, or reasons.

Motor vehicles do not reproduce with variation. Natural selection does not work for them as it does with living things.
Motor vehicles require a designer, organisms do not.

Biomimetics exists due to the fact that things in nature work as they were designed to.

Must be a pretty incompetent designer, then; unable to start from scratch but cobbling together "new" structures and processes only by altering already existing ones. A first semester engineering student could have done a better job.

 

[nPeace]

The ToE explains the mechanisms underlying all the various subdivisions of biology. It explains how biological processes developed and spread.
Motor vehicles do not reproduce with variation. Natural selection does not work for them as it does with living things.
Motor vehicles require a designer, organisms do not.
Must be a pretty incompetent designer, then; unable to start from scratch but cobbling together "new" structures and processes only by altering already existing ones. A first semester engineering student could have done a better job.

I wasn't aware that the discussion was about ToE. I thought it was about biology, and if it functioned successfully without Darwin. Are you arguing it didn't?

 

[Valjean]

Why not?

We still have the study of genus species and so on, the cataloguing of plants and animals, and the story of thousands of years of creatures. We simply don't have Darwin's ideas. We still have Linnaeus and his classification system, we just assume that creatures branch out as offshoots of other creatures rather than seeing them as evolved forms.

That is, there are still 802 Pokemon, but they don't evolve from each other.

Today we understand how creatures branch out. There is a widely observed, natural, tested mechanism underlying the diversity of life. The mechanism isn't intentional and doesn't depend on an intentional designer.

 

[Valjean]

I wasn't aware that the discussion was about ToE. I thought it was about biology, and if it functioned successfully without Darwin. Are you arguing it didn't?

Define "function successfully."
Life has been functioning and diversifying for billions of years. Darwin didn't invent the process, he just formulated a description of it.

 

[nPeace]

Define "function successfully."
Life has been functioning and diversifying for billions of years. Darwin didn't invent the process, he just formulated a description of it.

Yes. It is called evolutionary biology - a subfield of biology. Not the biology that was functioning for centuries, and continue to do so.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes. It is called evolutionary biology - a subfield of biology. Not the biology that was functioning for centuries, and continue to do so.

Nope, it has been the unifying idea behind biology for over one hundred years now. Of course science deniers are often decades or more out of date.

 

[nPeace]

Nope, it has been the unifying idea behind biology for over one hundred years now. Of course science deniers are often decades or more out of date.

Reference?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_biology

 

[ecco]

As with one who works on motor vehicles. Whatever knowledge is gained, is due to the fact that the motor vehicle is designed to work the way it does.

No. Whatever knowledge is gained is due to the fact that people pondered and found better ways.

All these things came about because people sought to improve on current knowledge. People like Mendel and Darwin.

of what? Thank you.

You said that knowledge of cars is gained, due to the fact that the motor vehicle is designed to work the way it does.

That is wrong. Improved knowledge of cars came about because people wanted to find better ways.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Reference?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_biology

And your inability to understand a concept proves what? Do you remember when @whirlingmerc mentioned genetics? That too is evolutionary biology.

If one wants to take only a shallow look at biology one can try to ignore evolution, but even Linnaeus classified man as a primate:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primate

You can only hamstring your efforts to study biology if you ignore the fact that the diversity of life is the product of evolution.

 

[nPeace]

You said that knowledge of cars is gained, due to the fact that the motor vehicle is designed to work the way it does.

That is wrong. Improved knowledge of cars came about because people wanted to find better ways.

Improved knowledge of cars

Thank you.
Let me simplify it. You can't improve on what you don't have.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Thank you.

And the study of evolution allows us an improved knowledge of life. Why would anyone do anything else? Ignoring reality due to superstition never works out very well.

 

[nPeace]

And your inability to understand a concept proves what? Do you remember when @whirlingmerc mentioned genetics? That too is evolutionary biology.

If one wants to take only a shallow look at biology one can try to ignore evolution, but even Linnaeus classified man as a primate:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primate

You can only hamstring your efforts to study biology if you ignore the fact that the diversity of life is the product of evolution.

I'm not going to get into that debate - on opinion, in my opinion.