Does Atheism provide peace of mind to its adherents?

[SkepticThinker]

Of course I've heard the "God is mean" argument many times and I can see how people with little insight into Christianity come to that conclusion.

It seems there is more to the discussion that just "god is mean." Of course, maybe people with very little insight outside of their Christian perspective would be able to follow such a discussion.

 

[Scott C.]

Yes, this is exactly why Christianity is useful. Parents might try to use logic, reason and common sense and point out all the possible negative effects of teenagers having premarital sex such as venereal disease and unwanted pregnancies and still not get through, but if you can indoctrinate them with a religion that provides an authority figure they'll listen to, problem solved.

If we are no more than accidents of nature, with no soul, and with no more than hard wired DNA driven behavior, we will develop a moral compass based on that assumed reality. But, if we are children of God, with divine purpose, our moral compass with differ. Your statement about the indoctrination of teenagers is good or bad, depending on reality. In your reality, it's bad. In mine, it's good. Hence, we're at a stalemate on the question of does God exist. Hmmm, I wonder if anyone's ever created a thread on that question.

 

[Ouroboros]

But I thought we were supposed to love our enemies? Is this an example of "do what I say but not what I do"?

Yeah. People in power always feel they have a certain privilege to go beyond their own commands. It's very human of God to do this, I'd say.

 

[Ouroboros]

Of course I've heard the "God is mean" argument many times and I can see how people with little insight into Christianity come to that conclusion.

Of course God is mean. God is also good. God is hate, love, anger, peace, war, chaos, order, evil, good, ... all of it. That's God. Otherwise, how could God be the largest, biggest, ultimate thing or being that contains all unless he/she/it was all?

 

[Scott C.]

It seems there is more to the discussion that just "god is mean." Of course, maybe people with very little insight outside of their Christian perspective would be able to follow such a discussion.

Haha. I get that there are deep and sincere thinkers who are atheists. While I disagree with their conclusions, I don't mock them. Christianity is mocked relentlessly on this site, as if it has no depth and as if any fool should recognize that it's blatantly false and ridiculous.

Edit: I think I can argue the atheist side better than most atheists can argue my side. I think I get atheism. But, from much of what I read, many atheists don't get Christianity. A person is not qualified to argue against someone's point of view, unless they thoroughly understand that point of view, even to the extent that they could effectively argue for it.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Haha. I get that there are deep and sincere thinkers who are atheists. While I disagree with their conclusions, I don't mock them. Christianity is mocked relentlessly on this site, as if it has no depth and as if any fool should recognize that it's blatantly false and ridiculous.

The comment in question was this:

"Hey Scott,

Of course I understand that "vindictive daddy in the sky" is not the universally held attitude, but I'd say you're not acknowledging the breadth of "the Christian perspective" you mention. Built into the very fabric of Christianity is "vindictive daddy" and many Christians hold this view."

It seems to me there is much room for discussion there.

 

[Scott C.]

The comment in question was this:

"Hey Scott,

Of course I understand that "vindictive daddy in the sky" is not the universally held attitude, but I'd say you're not acknowledging the breadth of "the Christian perspective" you mention. Built into the very fabric of Christianity is "vindictive daddy" and many Christians hold this view."

It seems to me there is much room for discussion there.

I don't know if you saw my edit in my last post. It was quite eloquent.

 

[ArtieE]

If we are no more than accidents of nature, with no soul, and with no more than hard wired DNA driven behavior, we will develop a moral compass based on that assumed reality.

To put it a different way... evolution and natural selection developed our "moral compass". We see it as moral when we share our food with starving people. A vampire bat also shares its food with starving roost mates. Two social species that evolved the same behavior because it was beneficial for the species.

But, if we are children of God, with divine purpose, our moral compass with differ. Your statement about the indoctrination of teenagers is good or bad, depending on reality. In your reality, it's bad.

No, actually, if there is no other way to turn "lost" teenage "sheep" into good citizens I approve of using religious youth programs and the like. It's much better for society than having them end up as criminals. Whether the god(s) exist or not doesn't matter as long as the belief they do is beneficial for society.

 

[Fool]

Atheism isn't a belief system. The fact that there are atheists who have a belief system does not make atheism itself a belief system. By definition, a worldview is a collection of beliefs or the summation of a person's perspective incorporating all of their beliefs and views. Atheism is a single position on a single claim, and therefore does not fit the definition of a worldview.


False. Atheism is merely the absence of belief in a God - many atheists are not materialists.

every individual on earth that is the least bit cognizant has a belief system.

doesn't have to be rational/irrational
doesn't have to have a deity
doesn't have to be organized

it's based on mores and ethics that the person ascribes to

 

[SkepticThinker]

every individual on earth that is the least bit cognizant has a belief system.

doesn't have to be rational/irrational
doesn't have to have a deity
doesn't have to be organized

it's based on mores and ethics that the person ascribes to

Atheists have belief systems and atheism can contribute to a person's belief system. Atheism itself just isn't a belief system.

 

[Scott C.]

No, actually, if there is no other way to turn "lost" teenage "sheep" into good citizens I approve of using religious youth programs and the like. It's much better for society than having them end up as criminals. Whether the god(s) exist or not doesn't matter as long as the belief they do is beneficial for society.

I like that. I misinterpreted your attitude on the subject.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I don't know if you saw my edit in my last post. It was quite eloquent.

While I agree with it to some extent, I think there is much to be learned from discussion of such things including new and different ways of looking at it that maybe hadn't been considered before.

I do think we need to do our best to understand differing viewpoints from our own and that we can do so without actually having to accept them.

 

[ArtieE]

Edit: I think I can argue the atheist side better than most atheists can argue my side. I think I get atheism.

You must "get atheism" you're 99.9% atheist yourself. I don't believe in the existence of gods, you don't believe in the existence of gods, except one. You don't believe in all the thousands of gods I don't believe in, except one. Of course you know what it is like not to believe in gods.

 

[Fool]

Atheism isn't a belief system.

http://www.integralworld.net/meyerhoff14.html

the etymology alone describe it as such

http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=ism&allowed_in_frame=0


http://etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=philosophy

Meaning "system a person forms for conduct of life" is attested from 1771.


without god doesn't imply without belief.

http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=atheism&allowed_in_frame=0

 

[Fool]

Atheists have belief systems and atheism can contribute to a person's belief system. Atheism itself just isn't a belief system.

and christians have belief systems too. its the fundamental premise from which each person chooses to observe their reality.

 

[icehorse]

Haha. I get that there are deep and sincere thinkers who are atheists. While I disagree with their conclusions, I don't mock them. Christianity is mocked relentlessly on this site, as if it has no depth and as if any fool should recognize that it's blatantly false and ridiculous.

Edit: I think I can argue the atheist side better than most atheists can argue my side. I think I get atheism. But, from much of what I read, many atheists don't get Christianity. A person is not qualified to argue against someone's point of view, unless they thoroughly understand that point of view, even to the extent that they could effectively argue for it.

While that's true, we might argue that your point of view isn't broad enough to be interesting to debate. In other words, both debaters have to agree on the topic. From what I can gather so far, your argument is that Christians don't take their scripture too literally and/or too seriously. While I'd agree that that's often the case, I disagree that that's always the case. Further, I'd argue that a substantial slice of Christians take the scripture more literally than you're acknowledging.

 

[icehorse]

Why? I find it a very practical way of providing the "lost sheep" with shepherds and turning them into valuable members of society. Even as an atheist having them believe in the existence of some god is a small price to pay.

Ugh, this path does not lead us to well prepared, modern citizens. It leads, as you suggest, to sheep.

 

[McBell]

Of course I've heard the "God is mean" argument many times and I can see how people with little insight into Christianity come to that conclusion.

What is your excuse for those with great insight into Christianity who take the same opinion?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

every individual on earth that is the least bit cognizant has a belief system.

I agree. But atheism isn't one - it may be a part of one, but atheism in and of itself does not constitute a belief system.

doesn't have to be rational/irrational
doesn't have to have a deity
doesn't have to be organized

it's based on mores and ethics that the person ascribes to

You've not really addressed my point. Saying "People have belief systems" does not mean "X is a belief system".

 

[ArtieE]

Ugh, this path does not lead us to well prepared, modern citizens. It leads, as you suggest, to sheep.

They were already "lost sheep". We just provide them with shepherds and turn them into useful "sheep" for society.