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Does Anyone Practice Determinism?
- Thread starter idav
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Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
Determinist like myself just live our lives knowing its futility. I view it as a matter of fact not a matter of practice. I accept its impact into how we view the grand scheme of morality but at the same time my outlook is very nihilistic compared to most of what deterministic believe.
For example if every action I make when waking up in the morning results in pleasure or pain I just accept the futility of my actions yet at the same time I wish to do more until I am in the circumstance to do it. This is why I do not worry about things like grades in my college or anything else. I have never worried about the good or evil and merely embraced the futility of both.
I wholeheartedly disacknowledge such concepts in intellectual conversation and praxis. Although it does not stop me from acknowledging ideals like virtue in mankind.
I don't quite understand your debacle though, hard determinist like myself see no issue with this outlook
For example if every action I make when waking up in the morning results in pleasure or pain I just accept the futility of my actions yet at the same time I wish to do more until I am in the circumstance to do it. This is why I do not worry about things like grades in my college or anything else. I have never worried about the good or evil and merely embraced the futility of both.
I wholeheartedly disacknowledge such concepts in intellectual conversation and praxis. Although it does not stop me from acknowledging ideals like virtue in mankind.
I don't quite understand your debacle though, hard determinist like myself see no issue with this outlook
I had a teacher who observed that the person with the most determination could be successful, so to me determination, or perhaps a form of determinism, would be practical in real life.
What does determinism mean to you.
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
Philosophical determinism means that mankind has no free will. It is a philosophy of nature that posits that mankind's behavior is a product of nature and determined by the very atoms in his body. Everything in life is already determined and set to happen.
This has nothing to do with determination in goals
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
I forgot to leave out . . .
I view mankind as a being in entire subjugation to external factors. This is also why I have never shown great anger towards people and am often sympathetic towards very hated individuals. At the same time this is why I always remain weary of my actions as I view them as external forces that affect others mental states and potential happiness of other beings.
I have no reason to view mankind as a mere slavish entity of the universe yet at the same time I also know that if this is the case I do have a resemblance of free will and accept that it can cause harm or good to occur. The irony may be that those of us who accept determinism tend to act with more pity and humility than those without.
I view mankind as a being in entire subjugation to external factors. This is also why I have never shown great anger towards people and am often sympathetic towards very hated individuals. At the same time this is why I always remain weary of my actions as I view them as external forces that affect others mental states and potential happiness of other beings.
I have no reason to view mankind as a mere slavish entity of the universe yet at the same time I also know that if this is the case I do have a resemblance of free will and accept that it can cause harm or good to occur. The irony may be that those of us who accept determinism tend to act with more pity and humility than those without.
People who believe in determinism don't act any differently than anyone else.
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
Why say that in so few words!This post requires lengthy incoherent stoner-like philosophical ramblings on nature and ethics!
I swear if you don't begin ramblings incoherently I shall smite ye!
You explained it quite well. Even if reality is deterministic we can't really "go with the flow" without actually making decisions which seems counterintuitive to determinism.
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
Determinism reminds me of those like Gandhi. Even though they are oppressed and mistreated they understand that if they continue the cycle they will then just end up mistreating others on the opposite side. Determinism to me offers more morality regardless if it is truthful or not.
So as to act like it isn't true?
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
I do not mean to but in but it means to "act as if it doesn't matter."
As long as a person doesn't beat them selves up over it, determinism might seem pointless to fight against nature.
Nice distinction.
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
I am sorry if I am bugging you but as a lifelong determinist I am very defensive about it because people make so many wild assertions without studying the nature of the claim. I apologize about my defensiveness beforehand.
This is exactly the case. Determinism require humility not nihilism although I happen to be nihilistic by pure chance but not because of my belief in determinism. Determinism makes all of mankind seems like a well conceived 8 billion year old joke that hasn't reach its punch line. In such a worldview there is no hero or a villains just individuals who are living incapable of changing their destiny. This only brings pity to people like me because we won't hold animosity towards those who are better than us. This is a major reason why authority has never bugged me if it is competent power being used for the betterment of others.
At the same time though this means that our morality is extremely vital in ensuring that everybody has the potential to acquire virtues that will accommodate mankind.
The Deterministic outlook require humility but it also requires virtues to be displayed in human behavior. Unless you are an utter nihilist and lack motivation to care
This is exactly the case. Determinism require humility not nihilism although I happen to be nihilistic by pure chance but not because of my belief in determinism. Determinism makes all of mankind seems like a well conceived 8 billion year old joke that hasn't reach its punch line. In such a worldview there is no hero or a villains just individuals who are living incapable of changing their destiny. This only brings pity to people like me because we won't hold animosity towards those who are better than us. This is a major reason why authority has never bugged me if it is competent power being used for the betterment of others.
At the same time though this means that our morality is extremely vital in ensuring that everybody has the potential to acquire virtues that will accommodate mankind.
The Deterministic outlook require humility but it also requires virtues to be displayed in human behavior. Unless you are an utter nihilist and lack motivation to care
No, even if it is true, you still have to act. I've never seen a believer in determinism remain frozen in place!
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
I'M A DETERMINISTIC AND I CAN'T MAKE UP MY MIND ABOUT WHICH SHIRT TO WEAR! O PHILOSOPHICAL DILEMMA!
Skwim
Veteran Member
Almost all people who think about the possibility of a deterministic existence regard their acts as functions of a free will because it far more satisfying than to think they had no actual say in what they do.
They don't. There is no such thing as choice or any of its cognates. All our actions are determined by the causes that lead up to them.
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Skwim
Veteran Member
Although "determination" has the same linguistic root as "determinism," the two do not refer to the same thing. As your teacher used the word, "determination" means "firmness of purpose; resoluteness." Determinism, on the other hand, refers to "the doctrine that all events, including human action, are ultimately determined by causes external to the will."
They have no choice but to do just that.
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I've never seen an explanation as to how a brain could make a decision except as the result of complex chains of cause&effect or randomly.
So I'm a determinist for want of an option.
And so are those people who believe in an omnipotent omniscient god, of course. They can't deviate by the tiniest margin from what their god already knew they'd do long long before they were born ─ indeed, before that god made their universe.
Meanwhile none of that has practical consequences for me. I'm genetically equipped to be a human, with a large kit of instincts and built-in responses. I seek air, water, food, shelter, friends, a place in society, a life partner, children, a team to cheer for, enjoyable and sometimes useful ways to fill my spare time, and so on.
I have the usual human sense of self, and I unquestioningly feel I own my decisions.
I'm accordingly happy with principles of personal responsibility in society and at law; though it concerns me that our jails contain so many people who are basically mentally ill.
It never worries me at any practical level that my actions are the result of complex operations of physics. I find the idea unimportant rather than threatening, I have no sense whatsoever of it being an aspect of my mentation ─ whereas I'm aware how age, illness, stress, alcohol, concussion &c, can affect mental performance.
And I could always reflect, though I don't, that the operations of my brain are so prodigiously complex that I have no chance at all of predicting any of them in particular. I simply have the usual human awareness of my habits, my nature, and other such broader characteristics, as well as those of others, but that's not the same thing.
On the positive side, insight into mental illness, its causes and alleviation, arises from scientific method ─ which seeks to describe and explain in causal terms (and by that means has discovered exceptions to causation in quantum physics).
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So I'm a determinist for want of an option.
And so are those people who believe in an omnipotent omniscient god, of course. They can't deviate by the tiniest margin from what their god already knew they'd do long long before they were born ─ indeed, before that god made their universe.
Meanwhile none of that has practical consequences for me. I'm genetically equipped to be a human, with a large kit of instincts and built-in responses. I seek air, water, food, shelter, friends, a place in society, a life partner, children, a team to cheer for, enjoyable and sometimes useful ways to fill my spare time, and so on.
I have the usual human sense of self, and I unquestioningly feel I own my decisions.
I'm accordingly happy with principles of personal responsibility in society and at law; though it concerns me that our jails contain so many people who are basically mentally ill.
It never worries me at any practical level that my actions are the result of complex operations of physics. I find the idea unimportant rather than threatening, I have no sense whatsoever of it being an aspect of my mentation ─ whereas I'm aware how age, illness, stress, alcohol, concussion &c, can affect mental performance.
And I could always reflect, though I don't, that the operations of my brain are so prodigiously complex that I have no chance at all of predicting any of them in particular. I simply have the usual human awareness of my habits, my nature, and other such broader characteristics, as well as those of others, but that's not the same thing.
On the positive side, insight into mental illness, its causes and alleviation, arises from scientific method ─ which seeks to describe and explain in causal terms (and by that means has discovered exceptions to causation in quantum physics).
.
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Thank you for your reply. Determinism to me then sounds like the old belief in fate.
I think we can die before our time, so Not determined or set to happen. Just being at the wrong place wrong time.
If all determined to happen then why bother to stop at a stop sign or a red light.