1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Does a religion have to be ancient in order for it to be true?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Epic Beard Man, Dec 14, 2018.

  1. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Messages:
    6,676
    Ratings:
    +3,060
    Religion:
    Agnostic-Monotheist
    Atheist argument concerning the existence of any metaphysical deity (or deities) aside to make it clear what I'm asking is whether how "old" a religion is, is a requirement to make a religion true?

    The question is very pertinent and relatable to the ongoing debate among theistic religions especially of the Abrahamic family. It appears to me (indirectly) in philosophical dialectical discussions I've been in that one proclaims to be true since it is the oldest, and therefore all others after that even the ones that remotely relate back to the original said religion are heretical. In addition to the question in the OP can't truth reinvent itself in latter generations due to change in time?

    Edit: I extend the same question to non-theistic religions
     
    #1 Epic Beard Man, Dec 14, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
    • Like Like x 2
    • Creative Creative x 1
  2. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2008
    Messages:
    44,994
    Ratings:
    +13,772
    Religion:
    Advocate of letting go of theism. Buddhist with an emphasis on personal understanding.
    Why, of course not.

    Then again, the "truth" of a religion is to be earned continuously.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  3. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    3,295
    Ratings:
    +1,694
    Religion:
    None
    Religion describes a set of practices so can’t really be true or false in and of itself though it is based upon sets of beliefs which obviously can be. That also means a “new” religion can be based on “old” beliefs (and arguably all of the mainstream religions as practiced today are “new” given how much they’ve changed and developed from their ancient predecessors).

    Any belief could be true, regardless of whether it was first considers 10,000 years ago or yesterday. Unless we know it’s true (or at least have a good reason treat it as such), it doesn’t actually make a whole load of practical difference whether it is or not.
     
  4. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2014
    Messages:
    9,327
    Ratings:
    +8,011
    Religion:
    none
    The point of religions is not that they are 'true' in the sense of a scientific proposition, it is that they are useful.
     
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Like Like x 2
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  5. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    23,836
    Ratings:
    +7,837
    No. If anything our present experiences and interactive with present moment spirituality gives more sense of validity. While the further back in history, there is a need to depend on external confirmation. Maybe the latter is fear that he or she may not trust if that person's feelings are true. That, and in the U.S., what is written is highly prized than what is said and carried down. So, that dependency on myth, stories, or said-truths are seen as more authentic.

    What is interesting is we go only but so far and stop at Paganism. If the past were more true then present, I would assume we would try to go more into our Pagan roots. Maybe there is some fear of multiple deiites or confusion.

    The saying 'we cant trust our own feelings' when learning about god is evidence of truth being ancient. Honestly, maybe its fear of present experience because they dont trust themselves to act without sin.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    7,396
    Ratings:
    +5,455
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    There is no reason why God who revealed Himself through Abraham and Moses, could not reveal Himself through more recent prophets such as Christ, Muhammad or Baha'u'llah. Deuteronomy 18:18-22 makes provisions for a succession of prophets after all.

    Adherents of the older religions have difficulty accepting the newer ones and each have their justifications and arguments to refute the new prophet.

    There is no good reason why God of the entire Universe would not reveal Himself through non-Abrahamic Educators too.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  7. spirit_of_dawn

    spirit_of_dawn Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2014
    Messages:
    541
    Ratings:
    +362
    A religion being older does not make it more true (or even true at all) in the same manner that a religion being newer does not become falser (or even false at all). Everything must be analyzed independently.

    It's absurd to claim your religion is true because it's older or newer. I've seen people making both arguments. Truth is independent from time.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  8. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    22,037
    Ratings:
    +8,126
    Religion:
    Zen Buddhism
    Age can certainly refine a religion but not its veracity.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2014
    Messages:
    9,881
    Ratings:
    +5,448
    Religion:
    Secular theist (none)
    Every religion was new once, so I don't think age of a religion is that important. Though we could learn something interesting from the San people, the Aborigines, the Natives in Americas and Siberia if we look at their religions.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    10,595
    Ratings:
    +4,613
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    The older a religion is the less likely it is true (?). Though some non-Theistic religions tend to be more flexible and do not make as many specific claims of truth.
     
  11. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    53,709
    Ratings:
    +12,687
    Religion:
    None (atheist)
    I'm not sure if "requirement" is the right word, but:

    - old religions can rely a bit on the fog of time to seem more plausible. For newer religions, we generally have better reliable information about the founder(s), how the religion was founded, etc., that can damage the religion's credibility.

    - if the religion makes itself out to be vital for humanity, then when the religion is new, it automatically has an objection to overcome: if it's so vital, why didn't God start it way earlier?

    - if we can see that a new religion started as, say, a gradual offshoot of an old religion, then this excludes the possibility that it started by other means... for instance, by the founder getting instructions directly from God on a mountaintop and bringing down tablets of commandments chiseled by God's own hand.
     
  12. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Messages:
    6,676
    Ratings:
    +3,060
    Religion:
    Agnostic-Monotheist
    Interesting...
     
  13. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Messages:
    6,676
    Ratings:
    +3,060
    Religion:
    Agnostic-Monotheist
    Um, ok
     
  14. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    53,709
    Ratings:
    +12,687
    Religion:
    None (atheist)
    It seems kind of arrogant to assume that all religions only have one purpose.
     
  15. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2008
    Messages:
    44,994
    Ratings:
    +13,772
    Religion:
    Advocate of letting go of theism. Buddhist with an emphasis on personal understanding.
    My reading is that one can't very well avoid the duty to define what counts as a religion.
     
  16. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

    Joined:
    May 5, 2007
    Messages:
    19,028
    Ratings:
    +7,386
    Religion:
    I am an advaitist Hindu and a strong atheist.
    does-a-religion-have-to-be-ancient-in-order-for-it-to-be-true

    There is nothing new that can be added to religions. Everything that can be said, has been said repeatedly. New religions are only for people who seek personal importance, money or sex. Moreover, they continue with the old falsehood - son, messenger, prophet, manifestation, mahdi sent by God. So, they are necessarily false. Also, they go against science.
     
  17. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2011
    Messages:
    19,578
    Ratings:
    +12,468
    Religion:
    Druidry
    Of course age is not indicative of truth (whether we mean truth-as-fact or truth-as-useful).

    That said, it cannot be denied that humans attach greater value and worth to things that are old. Perhaps it's worth taking some time to explore why that is? Why do we attach value and worth to something because it is old?

    I'll leave my own thoughts about that off the table for now. What do you all think?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Messages:
    19,228
    Ratings:
    +11,952
    Religion:
    None
    I also think that there are some people who respond to "New and Improved!" in a spiritual worldview. Believing oneself to be unusually smart and perceptive has a powerful pull on some people, while most prefer a time tested traditional view.
    Tom
     
  19. Marcion

    Marcion Tantra-Yoga Universalist

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2012
    Messages:
    1,100
    Ratings:
    +513
    Religion:
    Manava (human) Dharma, no religion, but Neo-Humanism
    People have become better schooled and arguably more intelligent over the centuries, so certain irrational aspects of old religions have become less acceptable to many people.
    This doesn't mean that the older religions have become worthless or totally outdated, but if they refuse to modernize, they will be abandoned for more up-to-date paths.

    The more exoteric religions will experience the effects of this transition the most for obvious reasons.
     
  20. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Messages:
    8,666
    Ratings:
    +3,844
    Religion:
    Gnostic Atheism
    Obviously not. If that was the case, then Christianity would have been false when it was young. And things that are false tend to stay like that.

    So, jediiists and copyists have more of a chance.

    Ciao

    - viole
     
    • Like Like x 2
Loading...