Doctors refusing to prescribe birth control

[Koldo]

The concept that someone working by himself should have to use the knowledge and skills in the way that someone else wants to, just because somehow they feel entitled to it, is completely absurd to me.

Worse yet, it seems to completely ignore the fact that if there is a lack of doctors on a certain area, the problem could only be made worse if those doctors are forced to change their area of expertise just to stay true to their conscience.

Can't people providing services ever refuse to provide said services based on their conscience ? Would the same reasoning apply to web designers, musicians, actors, etc. ?

 

[Alceste]

To act according to his conscience.

We don't act entirely according to our conscience at work. We act according to the professional standards and requirements of our job. When I did data entry, I wasn't allowed to turn off my Pc for half the day to cut down on emissions, no matter how sincerely concerned I am about global warming. I wasn't allowed to do it all in French, no matter how much I believe in bilingualism. When you have a job, you don't get to just do whatever you feel like all day long. You have to do what is required of you by your clients and employers. If it rubs you wrong, you should find another job.

 

[TheScholar]

We don't act entirely according to our conscience at work. We act according to the professional standards and requirements of our job. When I did data entry, I wasn't allowed to turn off my Pc for half the day to cut down on emissions, no matter how sincerely concerned I am about global warming. I wasn't allowed to do it all in French, no matter how much I believe in bilingualism. When you have a job, you don't get to just do whatever you feel like all day long. You have to do what is required of you by your clients and employers. If it rubs you wrong, you should find another job.

I agree 100 percent with this opinion.

 

[Alceste]

The concept that someone working by himself should have to use the knowledge and skills in the way that someone else wants to, just because somehow they feel entitled to it, is completely absurd to me.

Worse yet, it seems to completely ignore the fact that if there is a lack of doctors on a certain area, the problem could only be made worse if those doctors are forced to change their area of expertise just to stay true to their conscience.

Can't people providing services ever refuse to provide said services based on their conscience ? Would the same reasoning apply to web designers, musicians, actors, etc. ?

I'm a musician. I play whatever style of music is expected of me by whoever is footing the bill.

 

[Nakosis]

We don't act entirely according to our conscience at work. We act according to the professional standards and requirements of our job. When I did data entry, I wasn't allowed to turn off my Pc for half the day to cut down on emissions, no matter how sincerely concerned I am about global warming. I wasn't allowed to do it all in French, no matter how much I believe in bilingualism. When you have a job, you don't get to just do whatever you feel like all day long. You have to do what is required of you by your clients and employers. If it rubs you wrong, you should find another job.

Depends on the job.

I often tell my boss if he doesn't like the way I do things he should go hire someone else.

If I'm the doctor, I'm giving my time to the clinic. Don't have to and perhaps not a lot of doctors want to. I'm sure they'd replace her if they could. So probably can't.

No skin off her teeth if they don't want her help.

 

[Nakosis]

I'm a musician. I play whatever style of music is expected of me by whoever is footing the bill.

That's you.
While I respect that, not everyone is like that.

 

[Koldo]

I'm a musician. I play whatever style of music is expected of me by whoever is footing the bill.

You still can refuse an offer though. And what styles of music you are going to play can depend on what was agreed upon beforehand. You have that much freedom.

EDIT: Notice your wording. You are talking about an agreement between two parts where each accepted the terms of the other.

 

[Alceste]

You still can refuse an offer though. And what styles of music you are going to play can depend on what was agreed upon beforehand. You have that much freedom.

EDIT: Notice your wording. You are talking about an agreement between two parts where each accepted the terms of the other.

She's not refusing an offer. She's taking the gig and refusing to perform according to the requirements of her job.

 

[Koldo]

She's not refusing an offer. She's taking the gig and refusing to perform according to the requirements of her job.

Since there is a sign there, I would say she is refusing offers. Or do people have to pay before seeing that sign?
If she is indeed taking the money and not doing what is required from her, then I have already expressed my disagreement with that.

 

[idav]

Agreements from government have to be agreed upon and if the state, which they have, refuse contraception then you live in a crappy state and need to seek contraception elsewhere. It isn't really up to the doctor all that much if they seek government reimbursement even from insurances. Private funding is a different story. If someone is paying out of pocket it is a private service between doctor and patient and other entities would then have no say. Heck there are doctors I know won't accept the government stuff so they can almost do what they want. Insurances are more than happy not to be billed for something a doctor refuses to provide service for so the insurance isn't going to be on the patients side in that case if a patient wanted to complain. If an insurance accepted certain treatments and that office accepts that insurance, I would expect to be able to get the service and not have go around town to find someone who will but sadly insurances and doctors don't go by their clients expectations. I should also expect to get decent healthcare and not need the second third or fourth opinions :sad:.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Since there is a sign there, I would say she is refusing offers. Or do people have to pay before seeing that sign?
If she is indeed taking the money and not doing what is required from her, then I have already expressed my disagreement with that.

The patients generally don't pay. The doctor bills the government for any services rendered.

If there's no appointment at all, then there would be nothing to bill. I believe a doctor would be able to bill for a consultation if he or she actually sees the patient, even if it's only to hear the request and say "sorry, I won't do that."

 

[yoda89]

We don't act entirely according to our conscience at work. We act according to the professional standards and requirements of our job. When I did data entry, I wasn't allowed to turn off my Pc for half the day to cut down on emissions, no matter how sincerely concerned I am about global warming. I wasn't allowed to do it all in French, no matter how much I believe in bilingualism. When you have a job, you don't get to just do whatever you feel like all day long. You have to do what is required of you by your clients and employers. If it rubs you wrong, you should find another job.

You are either working for someone or you have to turn on the computer to get paid. If the doctor is working for a larger hospital or corporation who says he must then yes. However, if he is private practice he easily holds the option to discriminate based on non-racial issues. Whether you like it or not birth control is not life threatening in 99.999% of cases. There are so many doctors out there willing to provide birth control it doesn't really matter. In such a case if it rubs you the wrong way find another doctor. Just as if a store does not sell condoms I go somewhere else that does. I would never get ****** off at a store for not selling condoms.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

When you have a job, you don't get to just do whatever you feel like all day long. You have to do what is required of you by your clients and employers.

... and your professional association, if you belong to a profession that has one.

My code of ethics says that I'm not allowed to review the work of another engineer without notifying the engineer whose work I'm reviewing. By my own personal ethics, I don't think this would always be unethical, but it's in my profession's code of ethics, so I abide by it.

 

[Willamena]

How is that being disrespected? Nobody is forced to be a doctor. They are free to act according to their conscience by choosing a profession or a specialty that's in accordance with their conscience.

Choosing a profession should not dictate their conscience.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Choosing a profession should not dictate their conscience.

It's the other way around: a person's conscience dictates the range of professions they have to choose from.

 

[Willamena]

We don't act entirely according to our conscience at work. We act according to the professional standards and requirements of our job. When I did data entry, I wasn't allowed to turn off my Pc for half the day to cut down on emissions, no matter how sincerely concerned I am about global warming. I wasn't allowed to do it all in French, no matter how much I believe in bilingualism. When you have a job, you don't get to just do whatever you feel like all day long. You have to do what is required of you by your clients and employers. If it rubs you wrong, you should find another job.

Okay... Acting according to your conscience is not "doing whatever what you want," nor should professional ethics not play into it.

Having to find another job is not a solution. In fact, I find the suggestion absurd.

It's the other way around: a person's conscience dictates the range of professions they have to choose from.

Not in my experience.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Okay... Acting according to your conscience is not "doing whatever what you want," nor should professional ethics not play into it.

Having to find another job is not a solution. In fact, I find the suggestion absurd.

How is it any less absurd than having to find another doctor?

Not in my experience.

Then our experiences are different.

So in your experience, someone with the money and talent to get through medical school and become a family doctor didn't have any other realistic career options?

 

[Willamena]

How is it any less absurd than having to find another doctor?

He has a profession. If his profession forces him to choose another because it conflicts with his conscience, then it is the case that his profession has dictated what his conscience should be.

It's as absurd as someone whose ideas on RF are so unusual as to be unwelcome (within the boundaries of the rules) being told to find another forum because somebody doesn't want to listen to them. It should not be the case that being on RF dictates what ideas a person can hold.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

He has a profession. If his profession forces him to choose another because it conflicts with his conscience, then it is the case that his profession has dictated what his conscience should be.

It wouldn't be his profession forcing him; it would be his conscience.

It's as absurd as someone whose ideas on RF are so unusual as to be unwelcome (within the boundaries of the rules) being told to find another forum because somebody doesn't want to listen to them. It should not be the case that being on RF dictates what ideas a person can hold.

Let's back up a minute: you think that RF, where users are on equal footing with each other, is comparable with a doctor-patient relationship, and that a patient deciding to forego medical care is comparable to a user on an internet discussion board deciding to avoid another problematic user? That's what your analogy implies.

... and it ignore the fact that you acknowledge that the users here are bound by the rules, which is the closest parallel we have to a professional code of ethics in your severely flawed analogy.

Edit: forget the analogies and get back to the core issue: when a doctor's religious or moral beliefs interfere with delivering proper medical care, you side with the doctor. This implies that you think the patient's right to proper medical care should be considered secondary (if you think that the patient has this right at all - do you?). Why?

 

[Alceste]

Okay... Acting according to your conscience is not "doing whatever what you want," nor should professional ethics not play into it.

Having to find another job is not a solution. In fact, I find the suggestion absurd.


Not in my experience.

Yes, she is indeed "doing whatever she wants", and it is at odds with the professional standards of her chosen career. She doesn't have to be a GP. As a GP, she should have known she would be seeing clients on a daily basis who require her services establishing a family planning strategy (or complaining of one of many ailments for which hormone pills are a routine form of therapy.)