Do you think that Donald Trump is a Christian?

[Revoltingest]

2 out of 3 Corinthians say "Uhm, no".

He certainly doesn't seem acquainted with certain principles:

"No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money." - Matthew 6:24

"If you don't support me, you're going to be so goddamn poor." - Donald J. Trump​

“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." - Matthew 5:9

"I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?" - Donald J. Trump​

"Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted." - Matthew 23:12

"Sorry losers and haters, but my I.Q. is one of the highest, and you all know it! Please don’t feel so stupid or insecure, it’s not your fault.” - Donald J. Trump​

I wonder....
Is his un-christian behavior & lack of Bible knowledge really
an indicator that he's not a real Christian? If so, many of
the Christians I've know were also posers. But they had no
good reason to fake it.

 

[Daniel-David-Joseph]

Do you think that Donald Trump is a Christian?

I really do want to get an idea of what members think......
This question has been sparked by conversation on another thread .......

OK... I have seen President Trump hold up a big black book which looked like a bible. He held it high for pictures whilst standing outside the church by the White House. I think it might have been upside down, but that's the kind of mistake that I would make. He has referred to his Christian supporters on telly, and I don't know much else about his own religious 'position'.

So........ Please....... what do you think?

My poem may not be a direct reply to your question but I think you will get the idea...

FALSE GODS I.

As it is said,“…a woman came with a handful of fine flour to offer to Teras’ idols, which were now in the charge of Abraham. He took a stick and broke all the images except the largest one, in the hand of which he placed the stick which had worked this wholesale destruction.” Berei**** Rabbah

My people know false gods when they see them
Pretenders to the throne who abuse their power
Who whore and lie and steal from their subjects
Who surround themselves with hypocrites and fools
Flatterers and lackeys hoping to cash in
Who, though secretly contemptuous
Grovel and bow
Double-tongued and self-deceiving…
They fill the court of the mad king

My people know false gods when they see them
Narcissists and sociopaths who require you to flatter
Who demand obedience, loyalty and praise
Who never ask forgiveness no matter how guilty
Who think they are ahead of God
Ahead of Jesus
Ahead of Torah
Ahead of those they claim to serve
Who place themselves upon a pedestal they will not relinquish peacefully

After 4,000 years my people know false gods when they see them
Preening tyrants who require us to cheer
To glorify “conquests” no matter how gained
To exalt their “deals”
The hugeness of their tough but beautiful deals
Which nobody else in the world could have made

After 4,000 years my people know false gods when they see them
Emperors and czars who require us to fawn
To gaze in rapture upon their glorious achievements
Their pyramids and hotels
Country clubs and walls
Their very tough but beautiful walls
To bow down before their numbers
Never in history have there been such numbers
Incredible numbers
Ratings
Crowds
Not to mention the thousands who died while the mad king dithered

Most of my people
Most of the time
Of course there will always be some who bow down to idols
Who worship the calf that Moses burnt up

My people know false gods when they see them
It is the foundation upon which our religion was built
This instinct for distinguishing the night from the day
The ruach from the nefesh
The spirit from the clay

My people know false gods when they see them
And lately they see them on the nightly news

My people know plagues
My people know pharaohs
My people know darkness, sorrow and hate
My people know what it means to be scapegoated by rulers who exploit the fears of their subjects
My people know what it means to be free
What it means to be caged
What it means to rebel
My people know what it is to be a stranger in a strange land
To suffer repression
The sting of the whip
The blow of the rock
The weight of the knee

My people know the weight of the knee

Daniel David Joseph

***MOD EDIT***

 

[ChristineM]

For him to be a Christian would mean acknowledging something higher than himself. It seems unlikely to me that Trump's ego would let him do that.

I know of several self centred christians, it has become part of my personal definition of a christian so his egotism works in favour of him being christian to me.

"Hard evidence" like how the church he claimed to attend in Manhattan said that he's never been a member?

I can't contest that, he lied about going to that church. My dad wouldn't go to church though he wouldn't lie about it but he considers himself christian.

[church QUOTE="9-10ths_Penguin, post: 6892071, member: 13455"]Or like how Michael Cohen described how Trump called Evangelical [/QUOTE]

Not sure third party comment counts as evidence

And for me, it isn't that his behaviour is inconsistent with being a Christian; it's that he doesn't seem to have shown any sign of being a Christian until he ran for President, and it seems to be something he only does for show.

I see his behaviour as being christian and I see nothing odd his hypocrisy, it seems another common trait

 

[Callisto]

I wonder....
Is his un-christian behavior & lack of Bible knowledge really
an indicator that he's not a real Christian? If so, many of
the Christians I've know were also posers. But they had no
good reason to fake it.

True, there are many people who claim to be something they're not (sometimes it's even blatantly evident they are not).

 

[Revoltingest]

True, there are many people who claim to be something they're not (sometimes it's even blatantly evident they are not).

Or there's a mental disconnect between believing in
the tenets of one's faith, but not acting in accordance.
I've known some who fit that mode.

 

[Windwalker]

Do you think that Donald Trump is a Christian?

I really do want to get an idea of what members think......
This question has been sparked by conversation on another thread .......

OK... I have seen President Trump hold up a big black book which looked like a bible. He held it high for pictures whilst standing outside the church by the White House. I think it might have been upside down, but that's the kind of mistake that I would make. He has referred to his Christian supporters on telly, and I don't know much else about his own religious 'position'.

So........ Please....... what do you think?

If you consider people on the level of the Fred Phelps family as Christian, then anything is possible. I think the KKK considers themselves Christian as well. I'd put Trump's claim to be a Christian into that pile. A deep faith? Not a chance.

 

[oldbadger]

P

Of course he's lying. Think about the things that he's said in support of his claim:

He claimed to have been a lifelong reader of the Bible, but he's never been able to say what his favourite passage is, and he called Second Corinthians "Two Corinthians" in a speech.

He claimed to be a regular church attender, but the church he claimed to attend says that they don't know him.


Citing 'Two Corinthians,' Trump Struggles To Make The Sale To Evangelicals

I didn't know that ... Two Corinthians v Second Corinthians. Learn something each day.

 

[oldbadger]

If you consider people on the level of the Fred Phelps family as Christian, then anything is possible. I think the KKK considers themselves Christian as well. I'd put Trump's claim to be a Christian into that pile. A deep faith? Not a chance.

You have me at a disadvantage.
Fred Phelps family?

 

[oldbadger]

2 out of 3 Corinthians say "Uhm, no".

He certainly doesn't seem acquainted with certain principles:

"No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money." - Matthew 6:24

"If you don't support me, you're going to be so goddamn poor." - Donald J. Trump​

“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." - Matthew 5:9

"I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?" - Donald J. Trump​

"Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted." - Matthew 23:12

"Sorry losers and haters, but my I.Q. is one of the highest, and you all know it! Please don’t feel so stupid or insecure, it’s not your fault.” - Donald J. Trump​

My goodness..... The Fifth Avenue claim, that would decide the issue for me.
Thanks for your post.

 

[oldbadger]

My poem may not be a direct reply to your question but I think you will get the idea...

FALSE GODS I.

As it is said,“…a woman came with a handful of fine flour to offer to Teras’ idols, which were now in the charge of Abraham. He took a stick and broke all the images except the largest one, in the hand of which he placed the stick which had worked this wholesale destruction.” Berei**** Rabbah

My people know false gods when they see them
Pretenders to the throne who abuse their power
Who whore and lie and steal from their subjects
Who surround themselves with hypocrites and fools
Flatterers and lackeys hoping to cash in
Who, though secretly contemptuous
Grovel and bow
Double-tongued and self-deceiving…
They fill the court of the mad king

My people know false gods when they see them
Narcissists and sociopaths who require you to flatter
Who demand obedience, loyalty and praise
Who never ask forgiveness no matter how guilty
Who think they are ahead of God
Ahead of Jesus
Ahead of Torah
Ahead of those they claim to serve
Who place themselves upon a pedestal they will not relinquish peacefully

After 4,000 years my people know false gods when they see them
Preening tyrants who require us to cheer
To glorify “conquests” no matter how gained
To exalt their “deals”
The hugeness of their tough but beautiful deals
Which nobody else in the world could have made

After 4,000 years my people know false gods when they see them
Emperors and czars who require us to fawn
To gaze in rapture upon their glorious achievements
Their pyramids and hotels
Country clubs and walls
Their very tough but beautiful walls
To bow down before their numbers
Never in history have there been such numbers
Incredible numbers
Ratings
Crowds
Not to mention the thousands who died while the mad king dithered

Most of my people
Most of the time
Of course there will always be some who bow down to idols
Who worship the calf that Moses burnt up

My people know false gods when they see them
It is the foundation upon which our religion was built
This instinct for distinguishing the night from the day
The ruach from the nefesh
The spirit from the clay

My people know false gods when they see them
And lately they see them on the nightly news

My people know plagues
My people know pharaohs
My people know darkness, sorrow and hate
My people know what it means to be scapegoated by rulers who exploit the fears of their subjects
My people know what it means to be free
What it means to be caged
What it means to rebel
My people know what it is to be a stranger in a strange land
To suffer repression
The sting of the whip
The blow of the rock
The weight of the knee

My people know the weight of the knee

Daniel David Joseph

thehouseofwe.org

Wow!
That surely does have some clout.
Thank you very much for your post.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So........ Please....... what do you think?

Only God knows each heart.

Regards Tony

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

The way he looks at a Bible...

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I can't say whether anyone is truly a Christian (or any other faith). However, if I know anything about the faith that someone claims, and I know something about what that faith demands from its adherents, then I can certainly observe their behaviours and make a call as to whether or not what they do and say reflects their claimed faith.

In Trump's case, ask yourself whether he appears to adhere to Christ's injunction to "love one another." As you hear him characterize person after person, almost without end, ask yourself is he seems to care much about the admonition to "judge not, lest thou be likewise judged."

You can ask yourself all sorts of similar questions, as I have, and you might come to suppose, as I have, that Donald Trump really doesn't espouse in his heart what he necessarily espouses aloud.

 

[Windwalker]

You have me at a disadvantage.
Fred Phelps family?

Westboro Baptist Church - Wikipedia

 

[Clara Tea]

Trump attended a Christian church.

It is odd that people question Trump's religion, yet no one questioned W. Bush's. W. Bush was also elected to the presidency of the Religious Right, and was the only president who ever was president of both the US and the Religious Right.

Yet, W. Bush had torture camps (Guantanamo, and many other torture camps around the world, for example, on a ship in the Indian Ocean, and another example, in Iraq (reported by the International Red Cross before friendly fire killed the Red Cross workers reporting this)). W. Bush knew that God said "thou shalt not kill" and yet made war against Iraq, knowing full well, that many nations objected to his lack of evidence that Iraq was involved in terrorism. W. Bush pressed on, claiming that he will have evidence of terrorism if he is allowed to defeat Iraq (no evidence ever surfaced, and balloon trucks and aluminum tubes were not evidence). W. Bush had no regard for human life (mocked death row woman as Governor of Texas, and refused DNA evidence showing that a Black man on death row was definitely innocent of rape and murder). W. Bush ignored the suffering in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, refusing to allow emergency workers from other states for two weeks. I had a conversation with a Canadian emergency crew chief, and pointed out to the world that Canada was the first outside agency to respond to Hurricane Katrina. Even Walmart trucks made it into New Orleans before emergency workers. W. Bush had held emergency workers out of the region, claiming that they had to make sure that they were not al Qaeda agents in disguise. For two weeks, Katrina victims suffered, and the governor of a neighboring state (Texas) was on a cell phone to his mother, who was on the roof of her home in a rushing creek of water many feet hight. The governor said "hang on momma, help is on the way." His mother was diabetic and needed pills, shots, and food to stay alive and could not linger more than a few days And the next day, "hang on momma, help is on the way." And the day after that "hang on momma, help is on the way." W. Bush, well informed of the dire straits of New Orleans, refused to end his vacation, refused to correct the horse trainer friend whom he had appointed to head FEMA, and W. Bush said "What can I do, land my helicopter there?" The next day, like the thousands who received no help from the W. Bush administration, momma was dead, and there was no more cell phone communication to momma.

Yet, W. Bush still claimed to be "fightin' evil" for Christianity, and "fightin' the Axis of Evil." Doesn't it seem as though W. Bush was the evil one?

W. Bush claimed to be humble (a person who doesn't brag). In fact, he bragged that he didn't brag more than anyone else never bragged. It was a requirement to pretend to be Christian for him to pretend to be humble. But, a humble man can't brag. Nor can a humble man brag that he is more humble than anyone else. How can a man who is humble have the hubris to run for the presidency? Once elected to run the US, how can a humble man have even greater hubris to dictate to the rest of the world and take over other nations?

Revelation (a chapter of the New Testament bible), says that if anyone attacks Iraq, they will incur God's many punishments (example: Revelation 15 (seven plagues, such as COVID).

Apparently, God knew that Iraq was innocent, but W. Bush defied God.

Trump seems honest and somewhat hard working. I don't believe that he has one of the highest IQs of any president (supposed to be a genius). He didn't grasp mankind's contribution to Global Warming. He seemed to think that injecting lysol into one's veins might cure COVID. I think that he should have had speech writers review facts with him before suggesting such things to the world.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Trump attended a Christian church.

Trump claimed to attend a Christian Church; the church in question denied that he was an active member:

Following Trump's announcement, the church released a statement to CNN about his affiliation.

"Donald Trump has had a longstanding history with Marble Collegiate Church, where his parents were for years active members and one of his children was baptized. However, as he indicates, he is a Presbyterian, and is not an active member of Marble," the statement said.

Donald Trump is not an active member, church says - CNNPolitics

It is odd that people question Trump's religion, yet no one questioned W. Bush's. W. Bush was also elected to the presidency of the Religious Right, and was the only president who ever was president of both the US and the Religious Right.

Yet, W. Bush had torture camps (Guantanamo, and many other torture camps around the world, for example, on a ship in the Indian Ocean, and another example, in Iraq (reported by the International Red Cross before friendly fire killed the Red Cross workers reporting this)). W. Bush knew that God said "thou shalt not kill" and yet made war against Iraq, knowing full well, that many nations objected to his lack of evidence that Iraq was involved in terrorism. W. Bush pressed on, claiming that he will have evidence of terrorism if he is allowed to defeat Iraq (no evidence ever surfaced, and balloon trucks and aluminum tubes were not evidence). W. Bush had no regard for human life (mocked death row woman as Governor of Texas, and refused DNA evidence showing that a Black man on death row was definitely innocent of rape and murder). W. Bush ignored the suffering in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, refusing to allow emergency workers from other states for two weeks. I had a conversation with a Canadian emergency crew chief, and pointed out to the world that Canada was the first outside agency to respond to Hurricane Katrina. Even Walmart trucks made it into New Orleans before emergency workers. W. Bush had held emergency workers out of the region, claiming that they had to make sure that they were not al Qaeda agents in disguise. For two weeks, Katrina victims suffered, and the governor of a neighboring state (Texas) was on a cell phone to his mother, who was on the roof of her home in a rushing creek of water many feet hight. The governor said "hang on momma, help is on the way." His mother was diabetic and needed pills, shots, and food to stay alive and could not linger more than a few days And the next day, "hang on momma, help is on the way." And the day after that "hang on momma, help is on the way." W. Bush, well informed of the dire straits of New Orleans, refused to end his vacation, refused to correct the horse trainer friend whom he had appointed to head FEMA, and W. Bush said "What can I do, land my helicopter there?" The next day, like the thousands who received no help from the W. Bush administration, momma was dead, and there was no more cell phone communication to momma.

What in any of that is incompatible with Christianity?

Yet, W. Bush still claimed to be "fightin' evil" for Christianity, and "fightin' the Axis of Evil." Doesn't it seem as though W. Bush was the evil one?

They're both evil, IMO. But why would you assume an evil person can't be a Christian?

 

[blü 2]

Do you think that Donald Trump is a Christian?

I really do want to get an idea of what members think......
This question has been sparked by conversation on another thread .......

OK... I have seen President Trump hold up a big black book which looked like a bible. He held it high for pictures whilst standing outside the church by the White House. I think it might have been upside down, but that's the kind of mistake that I would make. He has referred to his Christian supporters on telly, and I don't know much else about his own religious 'position'.

So........ Please....... what do you think?

I don't know, but I think it unlikely.

If I correctly understand the rule, then regardless of his statements and actions, regardless of whether he adds ax murder to his crimes or gives away his golf courses to the poor, he's a Christian IFF he accepts "in his heart" ─ holds an authentic belief ─ that Jesus is his savior.

And otherwise he's not.

Of course, I may not correctly understand the rule. Or there may be many other versions of it.

 

[oldbadger]

I wonder....
Is his un-christian behavior & lack of Bible knowledge really
an indicator that he's not a real Christian? If so, many of
the Christians I've know were also posers. But they had no
good reason to fake it.

Christian is as Christian does....... no?

 

[oldbadger]

I know of several self centred christians, it has become part of my personal definition of a christian so his egotism works in favour of him being christian to me.

Question:
Do you think that Hitler could have been a Christian?

 

[oldbadger]

Only God knows each heart.

Regards Tony

Hello Tony!

Does this mean that to be a Christian, to be recognised as a Christian, Trump only has to say that he is a Christian? Is that about right?