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Do You Think I'm Going to Hell?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Eihwaz, Jan 17, 2015.

  1. shawn001

    shawn001 Well-Known Member

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    Eskimo: 'If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?' Priest: 'No, not if you did not know.' Eskimo: 'Then why did you tell me?'
    Annie Dillard
     
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  2. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

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    Hell for good and ethical people is one of the biggest turn offs to any religion I can think of. I think even worse is a person says they will send you to hell for not believing like they do.
     
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  3. SkylarHunter

    SkylarHunter Active Member

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    I'm a Christian and I don't believe in hell. So, independently of what might happen to you in the future, I don't think hell should be part of your worries.
     
  4. Riverwolf

    Riverwolf Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
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    No. I follow a customized variant of the Old Way, which does not have a post-life eternal punishment realm.
     
  5. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    No One knows the relationship you have with God. If you are a Christian, only God knows whether or not how far you are separated from Him. Also, if I did believe in hell, it is only a separation from God--and that separation is worse than any place of fire and brimestone.



     
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  6. ChristineES

    ChristineES Tiggerism
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    That's interesting. :)
     
  7. mystic64

    mystic64 nolonger active

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    Elhwaz you seem to have started a fun topic :) ! Humm? I think that you mentioned something about that you are going to become God, or did you mean a god? If you are going to become God or a god, then should one try to get in early and worship you now? And when you become God or a god, what will be the rewards for those that worship and follow you? About "black majik", "Are you proficient enough in the "black majik" arts that one should fear you?"

    About "Hell", well I guess that if you don't go to Hell, then there is no way that I am going either :) ! I like that part! Yeah!
     
  8. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Everyone goes to heaven. Heaven is the ultimate Island of Misfit Toys.
     
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  9. Eihwaz

    Eihwaz Founder of the Egregore of DES

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    I don't believe in anything "Christian" at least as it is peddled by 99.9 percent of Christians. I do have a highly rarified and personal interpretation of the Old Testament and New Testament however but my personal philosophy and religious beliefs do not depend on such scriptures and interpretations and I would still be this way whether Christianity or Judaism or those books were written to begin with.

    First of all "Black Magic" as a praxis originally refers to the magical practices and doctrines which came out of Khem (which is the word for Egypt which translates to the black land - Khem later became the word 'chemistry' because of this). Therefore any form of magical doctrine or practice which was from Egypt was referred to as Black Magic and it had quite a reputation because the ancient Egyptians were viewed as truly competent and all-power sorcerers. In modern parlance in the Western Tradition we call it Black Magic to differentiate it from White Magic. White Magic is imitation and is things like palmistry, tea leaf reading, astrology charts, and other pointless and stupid things. Black Magic is called so because it intends to exercise the Will of the Black Magician upon the Objective Universe in order to bring change to it in accordance with the Black Magician's Subjective Universe. There's no connotation of evil or Satan or wrongness or degeneracy about it except you can use Black Magic to do anything you want but that's a reflection of you not magic.

    As for the Serpent. Well, the Serpent/Garden of Eden story predates the Old Testament by thousands of years and I didn't read any commentary, additional notes, footnotes, etc. - whatever - where Jesus or Moses or whoever was writing those stories either implicitly or explicitly pointed out how to interpret the Bible or whether any one thing done was good or bad whether God did it or some other guy did it. I take it as a fairly straightforward narrative (although plagiarized from other religions/cultures and even Greek plays). I also fail to see how anyone can properly understand the Bible without actual linguistic/semantic training and understanding of original sources and original script (such as Hebrew, Aramaic etc.) or how one could understand the Bible without technical expertise in Gematria and Cabala or other mathematical and/or arcane systems. My reading and study of Genesis makes it clear that when God said let there be light it wasn't just light he made but it was Christ (his pre-mortal existence) which he made and Christ was the one who appeared as the Serpent in the Garden of Eden. Also there were no figs or apples on those trees but rather it was crawling with living souls.

    Hell simply refers to 'North' - to go 'Northward' - as in to go 'left' or 'below' when facing the rising sun. It connoted left-handedness or 'doing something wrong' or 'going the wrong way' and incidentally North connotes Norsemen who believed in a Goddess named 'Hel' and a place of same name and in those days a 'Norseman' had the connotation of 'a deceitful person'. The modern day Christian conception of Hell comes from ignorance, racism, and a fear of those who are different or who live somewhere else in a different culture.

    Old English norð "northern" (adj.), "northwards" (adv.), from Proto-Germanic *nurtha- (cognates: Old Norse norðr, Old Saxon north, Old Frisian north, Middle Dutch nort, Dutch noord, German nord), possibly ultimately from PIE *ner- (1) "left," also "below," as north is to the left when one faces the rising sun (cognates: Sanskrit narakah "hell," Greek enerthen "from beneath," Oscan-Umbrian nertrak "left"). The same notion underlies Old Irish tuath "left; northern;" Arabic shamal "left hand; north." The usual word for "north" in the Romance languages ultimately is from English, for example Old French north (Modern French nord), borrowed from Old English norð; Italian, Spanish norte are borrowed from French.

    Concludes my brief essay.

    Eihwaz/Blake
     
  10. MonkeyFire

    MonkeyFire Well-Known Member

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    Technically the boogie man, and demons don't exist or they aren't scary and they posses intrinsic qualities meaning life, happiness, and knowledge which is a big no no to an angel. Demons can't believe or they aren't demons.
     
  11. Robert.Evans

    Robert.Evans You will be assimilated; it is His Will.

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    I'll go and get the coal, you fetch the matches ;)
     
  12. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    That is because there is no Satan character in Isaiah. They misinterpreted, and mistranslated, the text.

    *
     
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  13. bobhikes

    bobhikes infinitologist
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    You asked me what I thought, not what you profess to be true. My definition of Black Magic is not yours. My definition of the snake is not yours. You don't like my opinion don't ask for it.
     
  14. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    Well, I found that interesting until you threw your Christian beliefs into the mix.

    "My reading and study of Genesis makes it clear that when God said let there be light it wasn't just light he made but it was Christ (his pre-mortal existence) which he made and Christ was the one who appeared as the Serpent in the Garden of Eden. Also there were no figs or apples on those trees but rather it was crawling with living souls."

    *
     
  15. Eihwaz

    Eihwaz Founder of the Egregore of DES

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    I don't have any 'Christian' beliefs and don't equate Christ with Jesus or any human being in particular - not even with Melchizedek. Nor do I especially believe in what I wrote but only that I interpret this passage as such for various reasons - a scholarly opinion or theory but not particularly a fact. The only thing I'll say about Jesus is that my interpretation is, in the sense that he existed at all (he was either a composite of certain people or roughly based on an actual person from the period), is that he was an anti-Jewish demagogue and roughly met the standards (even if only as an invented mythology) of being the anti-Messiah of the Jews. I'm much more reliant, respectful, and enthused by Jewish tradition and the Cabala than anything remotely Christian. I sometimes wonder if this is because in a past life I was a Rabbi. That being said . . . Jewish scholarly tradition is highly complex, technical, and very advanced whether it be the Cabala or other Jewish documents/systems and requires decades of study to hold forth on and I'm not yet qualified to do so. All I can do is apply what I know from other traditions and systems. When I think of Christ or souls or light, etc. - as a Tantric adherent I think of the 'breath' and 'blood', of yoga and chakras, other things - wont get into any of the complexities too much. But more importantly I relate it to the principle that has to do with rightful, divine kingship and the true blood, spirit, breath, etc. which animated the first human being. I relate it to Sophia and to Adam having been created (the second time around as the earthly and physical Adam) and him not being properly completed until gnosis was bestowed upon him through Eve. In that sense perhaps Adam would've been the first male Christ because before that moment he was more like a Gollum made of mud - a Frankenstein. This need not be literal but more so poetic (I'm a poet).

    For me the most important book in the Bible is Ecclesiastes and the most important word is Shalom. These are the only two things I take from it which are exclusively of the Old Testament and which it can take credit for.

    Eihwaz/Blake
     
  16. Eihwaz

    Eihwaz Founder of the Egregore of DES

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    I already have my system in place for when I'm God.

    First of all I will be an entirely unknown God.

    Let those who have gained power renounce that power - such will be my position.

    I will be like the Ancients in Stargate and have a total policy of non-interference with the mortal world.

    Like Paul Mua'Dib I too understand that Gods and Messiahs are dangerous and lead people off cliffs like cattle.

    Like Darth Traya of Star Wars I too understand that religion/the Force/Chi/Black Magic/Vril/Etcetera is dangerous and like poison and can only be used like a poison - that it leaves people dependent upon it and weak without it - that it often sucks them dry and leaves them abandoned and betrayed. I leaves rifts - wounds - in the human psyche and the universe itself which could destroy all life and all of existence.

    I will try to remove this Force as God from every human being. I will be the last God.

    I will only interfere in human affairs if mankind faces a fatal threat from an advanced alien species in the Outer Rim of our galaxy in which case I will have to assume the form of an Emperor Palpatine and build a military superpower which will be able to battle the Yuuzhan Vong (an alien species which, like Godzilla, is immune to everything except the effects of the Dark Side).

    This I promise you.

    I will be around only in the sense of Bodhisattva who watches over and helps people cross over during the Liberation Through Hearing in the Intermediate State. When you see that red light leading to your next reincarnation or wherever else your heading then I'll guide you through the process or try to counteract bad karma that will attempt to make you a hungry ghost.

    Shalom!

    :eek:

    Eihwaz/Blake
     
  17. psychoslice

    psychoslice Veteran Member

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    I myself believe that hell was an invention to keep people in the church, if we believe in a loving God, then hell would be a great contradiction to that belief.
     
  18. applewuud

    applewuud Active Member

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    Umm, I don't get it…from the rest of your posts, it sounds like you're dabbling in religion in a major way.

    But to the question of your OP, no. Infinite punishment for finite sins is incompatible with a just creator of the universe. So is the idea of long-delayed punishment upon beings who have been designed to respond to punishments ("negative reinforcement") only when promptly administered and associated with the bad behavior. So your cousin is in fact perplexed by the contradictions of his own beliefs, and you're a puzzle to him…and helping him in his spiritual growth. Hope he tries to solve the puzzle.
     
  19. mystic64

    mystic64 nolonger active

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    Well Eihwaz, you do seem to have a lot of power attached to your post :) . So I would guess that you are obviously sincere about what you are saying. I have spent over forty years now studing the ancient Egyptian mysteries, both the snake (male) and the bird (female), so I guess that we have something in common. I have the snake mastered and am now becoming proficient with the wings of Isis. I understand and am doing the meditations of both the snake and bird for immortality/extended lifespans stuff. I am pretty good with the "eye of Ra" and the "eye of Horus". And I have no desire to be God or be immortal. And I have been a yogi mystic for years now. There is a lot yogi stuff that correlates nicely with the Egyptian mysteries. I have also studied true witchcraft and shamen stuff quite bit and am proficient at them if I wish to be. I got myself in trouble back in the day when I was a pharaoh and tried to promote the one God (that went over like a lead balloon :) ). Good luck being the last God standing, I think that you are going to have your hands full with that one :) .
     
  20. wgw

    wgw Member

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    Eihwaz, your charity is commendable. The Eastern Orthodox Churches that salvation involves becoming god, not God in an absolute sense, but being deified through Theosis, which is accomplished through humility and control of the passions attained through the joys of fasting and the unceasing prayer of the heart. On Mount Athos you'll find two thousand monks who live into their eighties or nineties, sleep four hours a day, eat one vegetarian meal a day, stand in church praying for ten hours a day, and work the rest of the time, and are happy, Ina state of bliss even. The world cannot offer contentment, merely fleeting pleasure, whereas heaven is not in our belief a state of carnal pleasure but rather a state of being gods, that is to say, sons of God through adoption. This does not mean we become members of the Trinity, but rather that we join with God in a union of perfect love while retaining our individual personality. Does that not appeal to you?

    As for the Garden of Eden scenario, one has to admit there is a paradox, in that lacking the knowledge of good and evil, Eve lacked the discernment to realize she was being tricked. The Orthodox Church tends to interpret this and much of the Old Testament as an allegory. God is bound ethically to grant free will, including the freedom to reject him; humans, created good, became corrupted through agencies of evil not entirely their fault, but God in His mercy has provided for their redemption. But it requires a choice between the pleasures of this life, which are alluring, and the pleasures of the life to come, a foretaste of which can be experienced in this life through asceticism, humility and deep repentance.

    I have no way of knowing whether or not you or for that matter I will be saved. I can say that I trust that I am being saved through the grace of God, but I might fall away. But the uncreated energies of God are infinite grace, love and mercy. I would ask you one question, and that is, in your personal spirituality, have you found a place for humility?
     
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