Do you really see all muslims as evil people?

[loverofhumanity]

It's prescribed punishments and the things it says to punish, teachings about women, amd the way it degrades those who aren't Muslim is not beautiful. That is hatred, and hatred is ugly.

Porn isn't inherently dehumanizing to women. And sometimes it's guys in it.
And clearly we have different views on morality. Wasting tons of food, mindless consumerism, and the level of poverty we still have is of far greater moral concern than what people consensual indulge in on their own time. Children dying of starvation and lack of access to healthcare is a far greater moral crisis than porn.
But, yes, Abrahamics (ok, mostly and particularly Muslins) are often known for finding porn more objectionable than the pillaging, plundering, and squandering of the Earth for private economic gain. Corporate pollution making a community sick and killing them? Things like porn and gay marriage are greater concerns.

The Quran was revealed over a 23 year period to the barbaric savage warring tribes of the Arabian Peninsula. One of their practices was girl infanticide. If the first born were a girl, she had to be buried in the sand alive. These tribes raped and pillaged and the Quran and Muhammad brought law and order to them and united these tribes into a great nation.

In those times in the desert, there were no prisons or jails, no courts of law or judges and no correction facilities. So if harsh laws were not created, the result would have been serial killers and rapists repeating their crimes without fear. Muhammad brought this under control. As humanity became better educated we now have better facilities to act more humanely. Today these societies are struggling to read the reality of the new world we are in and that these laws are no longer humane as we have better alternatives. But they are adapting gradually.

One of the most beautiful things about the Quran is that Muslims fought and died that all humanity might have freedom of religion. The Meccans wanted to exterminate them because they went against the tradition of 360 gods and worshipped one God and economic wealth then was based upon money tributes towards some 360 gods. Imagine now if people only believed in one God how their economy would be affected. So the Meccans oppressed whoever spoke openly about one God. So they were tortured and killed for upholding freedom of religion which is the cornerstone of every democracy and enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. The first such constitution to grant religious rights was the Constitution of Medina.

If Muslims had not fought for these rights of freedom of religion, I shudder to think what kind of oppressive societies would exist today.

Then there’s the great wealth of knowledge the west gained through Andalusia.

Yes poverty and wastage are enormous problems especially poverty which can destabilise the world.

To put it bluntly, I believe that the most oppressed people on earth to be women. They are used, abused then discarded. In this age though, women are proving they are not merely objects of sensual pleasure but human beings with dignity capable of leading the world into an era of peace where men have failed for over 6,000 years.

 

[danieldemol]

So if harsh laws were not created, the result would have been serial killers and rapists repeating their crimes without fear. Muhammad brought this under control.

What historical source do you have that Muhammad brought rape under control?

 

[loverofhumanity]

What historical source do you have that Muhammad brought rape under control?

He brought law and order to the Arabian Peninsula. He created an educated race of people from savages and barbarians. People still commit crimes despite laws but in the ordered society or ‘Ummah’ He created there was less chance of its occurring.

In the Quran Sura 17:32 we read:

Do not draw near to any unlawful sexual intercourse; surely it is a shameful, indecent thing, and an evil way (leading to individual and social corruption).

Without any laws at all the tribes raided each other, pillaged and raped as there was no community to enforce laws until Muhammad united the tribes into a nation and gave them laws. He turned lawless savages into a lawful educated community.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

In those times in the desert, there were no prisons or jails, no courts of law or judges and no correction facilities. So if harsh laws were not created, the result would have been serial killers and rapists repeating their crimes without fear.

That simply is not the case. Like the Germanic tribes, they did fine without the death penalty. Outlawry was the most severe punishment they had. And Medieval Christians had gruesome and grizzle tortures and executions, but yet that didn't stop crimes like attempting to assassinate a king.
Amd are they really better off? Women entirely covered, blasphemy laws, execution for being gay, and many have no respect for our rights and laws.

 

[danieldemol]

Do not draw near to any unlawful sexual intercourse; surely it is a shameful, indecent thing, and an evil way (leading to individual and social corruption).

In my opinion that doesn't tell us whether in Muhammad's lifetime sex with war captives was considered unlawful, or whether marital rape was considered unlawful.

 

[loverofhumanity]

That simply is not the case. Like the Germanic tribes, they did fine without the death penalty. Outlawry was the most severe punishment they had. And Medieval Christians had gruesome and grizzle tortures and executions, but yet that didn't stop crimes like attempting to assassinate a king.
Amd are they really better off? Women entirely covered, blasphemy laws, execution for being gay, and many have no respect for our rights and laws.

Muhammad and the Quran succeeded in transforming savage and barbaric tribes into a unified nation with laws. Islam had its golden age and now is in decline but it has made invaluable contributions to western civilisation if we be fair and just.

 

[loverofhumanity]

In my opinion that doesn't tell us whether in Muhammad's lifetime sex with war captives was considered unlawful, or whether marital rape was considered unlawful.

He was a Prophet of God and the Quran said He was a perfect example to humanity so lived a sinless life. That is the truth I believe.

That’s how I see it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Muhammad and the Quran succeeded in transforming savage and barbaric tribes into a unified nation with laws. Islam had its golden age and now is in decline but it has made invaluable contributions to western civilisation if we be fair and just.

Primitive tribes would often have false stories about their enemies. The question was: How do you know that this was accurate? It appears that all you have is the Quran. That is circular reasoning and is not reliable.

 

[Subduction Zone]

He was a Prophet of God and the Quran said He was a perfect example to humanity so lived a sinless life. That is the truth I believe.

That’s how I see it.

So no reliable reason. Only personal prejudice. There are Christians that believe very bad things about Islam. Partially due to the claims of Muslims, partially due to personal prejudices based on the Bible. Are they wrong? If so why?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Primitive tribes would often have false stories about their enemies. The question was: How do you know that this was accurate? It appears that all you have is the Quran. That is circular reasoning and is not reliable.

All I have is the Quran? It is the only comprehensive historical document of events which transpired at that time. None of us were eye witnesses so we can only look at the claims and make up our own minds.

 

[loverofhumanity]

So no reliable reason. Only personal prejudice. There are Christians that believe very bad things about Islam. Partially due to the claims of Muslims, partially due to personal prejudices based on the Bible. Are they wrong? If so why?

There is no doubt that the warring tribes of the Arabian Peninsula became united into a single nation. History testifies to this.

But also the unlawful activities of the Umayyad and Abbasid dynasties is recorded.

 

[loverofhumanity]

So no reliable reason. Only personal prejudice. There are Christians that believe very bad things about Islam. Partially due to the claims of Muslims, partially due to personal prejudices based on the Bible. Are they wrong? If so why?

You forgot to mention the inquisition and things like the seige of Jerusalem where praise was sung to Christ after murdering innocent children and pregnant women.

 

[firedragon]

It's prescribed punishments and the things it says to punish, teachings about women, amd the way it degrades those who aren't Muslim is not beautiful. That is hatred, and hatred is ugly.

I would like to see which verse or verses you are referring to and why you say this and what analysis you have done.

 

[firedragon]

Amd are they really better off? Women entirely covered, blasphemy laws, execution for being gay, and many have no respect for our rights and laws.

I think you are referring not to the Quran because none of these are in it. Yet, I am interested in finding out where you learned these from and what analysis you have done.

 

[firedragon]

In my opinion that doesn't tell us whether in Muhammad's lifetime sex with war captives was considered unlawful, or whether marital rape was considered unlawful.

You asked for "historical evidence" from someone above.

1. Can you provide "historical evidence" for "Muhammad's lifetime sex with war captives"?

2. What analysis have you done?

 

[Revoltingest]

Always treat people as individuals.
Too many people just hate a group, & cannot see any
individual good, be they Muslim, Christian, Democrat,
Republican, liberal, conservative, libertarian,
commie, capitalist, business, the poor, landlord,
tenant, politician, the masses, or groundskeeper.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Muhammad and the Quran succeeded in transforming savage and barbaric tribes into a unified nation with laws. Islam had its golden age and now is in decline but it has made invaluable contributions to western civilisation if we be fair and just.

A nation who savagely waged wars of aggressive expansion, took and kept slaves, amd oppressed and repressed others.

 

[Audie]

He brought law and order to the Arabian Peninsula. He created an educated race of people from savages and barbarians. People still commit crimes despite laws but in the ordered society or ‘Ummah’ He created there was less chance of its occurring.

In the Quran Sura 17:32 we read:

Do not draw near to any unlawful sexual intercourse; surely it is a shameful, indecent thing, and an evil way (leading to individual and social corruption).

Without any laws at all the tribes raided each other, pillaged and raped as there was no community to enforce laws until Muhammad united the tribes into a nation and gave them laws. He turned lawless savages into a lawful educated community.

My goodness, sounds like the same favour that
Europeans did for the (STILL ungrateful) native Americans.

China is similarly helping out the Uighurs.
You must be all for that!

 

[danieldemol]

You asked for "historical evidence" from someone above.

1. Can you provide "historical evidence" for "Muhammad's lifetime sex with war captives"?

2. What analysis have you done?

There is no historical evidence about Muhammad's life (other than that He existed and was believed to be a prophet) that I'm aware of, which is why in my opinion it is an unjustified claim to claim that Muhammad ended rape. In my opinion this is unknown.

 

[Vinayaka]

Knowing that some people in RF does not have a good view on muslims.

I was wondering.
1. Do you see every muslims as evil?
2. Do you see every muslim ad a terrorist?
3. How much do you actually know about Islam? And how much do you listen to news organizations and believe their covetage of islam?

You really think there would be people out there stupid enough to generalise 1.4 billion people? And to top it off, some of them frequent this forum?