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Do you really believe that Jesus died for our sins?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Bennettresearch, Mar 8, 2010.

  1. S-word

    S-word Well-Known Member

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    Crucifixion was a rite in the mysteries of many countries and especially those of Egypt, See ‘The Secret Doctrines,’ vol. 11, p. 558. The initiated adept, who had successfully passed all the trials, was tied to a cross deep inside a Temple Crypt or cave, he was then drugged and plunged into a deep sleep in which state, in the darkness of the bowels of the earth, he remained for three days and three nights, during which time his spirit=mind, is said to have descended into hades to communicate with the gods.

    According to 1st Peter 3: 18-21, Being made dead in the flesh, but alive in spirit, Jesus descended through time and preached to those who were dead according to the time of the Roman Empire, He preached to those who were disobedient in the days when Noah was building the ark, etc.

    When Jesus who was declared high priest in the line of succession to Melchizedek, who, girded and clothed with fire, serves God before the body of Adam into all eternity, was made dead in the flesh but alive in spirit he went and preached the Good News to the dead also. From the body of Noah, he preached to those who were disobedient in the days before the flood. The indwelling spirit in Noah, his wife, their three sons and their wives, were all the descendents of Enoch, as all 8 souls were descended from Enoch’s six sons, Methusulah, Rigam, Riman, Urchan, Cherminion and Giadad.

    From the Book of Enoch the Prophet 106: 1; “Methuselah took a wife for his son Lamech, and she became pregnant by him and bore a son and his body was as white as snow and as red as the blooming of a rose, and the hair on his head and his long locks were white as wool, and his eyes beautiful. And when he opened his eyes, he lighted up the whole house like the sun, and the whole house was very bright. And thereupon he arose in the hands of the midwife, opened his mouth, and conversed with the Lord of righteousness. And his father Lamech was afraid of him, (Just as Eve was terrified when she first saw Cain the shinning one and thought to kill him) and Lamech fled and ran to his father Methuselah. And he said to him: “I have begotten a strange son, diverse from and unlike man, and resembling the sons of the God of heaven; and his nature is different, and he is not like us, and his eyes are as the rays of the sun, and his countenance is glorious. And it seems that he is not sprung from me, but from the angels. And I fear that in his days, a wonder may be wrought on the earth.

    Jesus who inherited the throne of the indwelling spirit in the body of Post-flood mankind, While that body was still in the hands of the midwife reveals his pre-existence, (Not from the past, but from the future) opened its mouth and conversed with the Lord of Righteousness (Enoch), Is now our indwelling ancestral spirit who is gathering to himself all the spirits of Good people who fall asleep in righteousness, and is the chosen cornerstone to the resurrected simulacrum, "The Son of Man," who descends and gives to us, his immortal body.
     
    #161 S-word, Mar 25, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2010
  2. Bennettresearch

    Bennettresearch Politically Incorrect

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    Some amazing Christology at work here. You sure can tell a good bedtime story. So Jesus went around from the beginning of time whispering in the ears of the forefathers and prophets. Too bad they didn't listen to Him.
     
  3. Bennettresearch

    Bennettresearch Politically Incorrect

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    You lose, sorry!
     
  4. Bennettresearch

    Bennettresearch Politically Incorrect

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    As your dissociative behavior has demonstrated quite well. Get on topic or go away. Your ad hominem entrapment has not worked and I know that no one is buying your pathetic display.
     
  5. Bennettresearch

    Bennettresearch Politically Incorrect

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    While my study of Revelation has produced a statement in chapter 13 validating the resurrection, you can't dismiss previous referrences to resurrection in other ancient religions. Zorastrianism even broached the subject. As with the accounts of virgin births like Alexander the Great, it make one suspect that there is a sort of one-upsmanship going on between religions.
    I think it is valid for someone to question it. I believe Jesus was resurrected in the spirit, no physically. Revelation indicates this also which is why I don't argue against it. We have to weed out the propagand however.
     
  6. S-word

    S-word Well-Known Member

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    Nope, Jesus was a human being just as you and I, he was born of human parents who are recorded in scripture and they are Mary the daugther of Heli from ther tribe of Levi, and Joseph the Levite who was also sired by Heli, but of another mother than Joseph the Levite, who should not be confused with Joseph the son of Jacob, from the tribe of Judah who had no sex with Mary until she had given birth to the first of her three biological sons, only then did Joseph the son of Jacob from the tribe of Judah, consummate his union with Mary.

    Isaac is a prototype of Jesus and like Jesus was born of Gods promise according to the workings of the Holy Spirit. Both Isaac and Jesus were the sons of parents who were both sired by the one Father. ‘Terah,’ is the father to both Abraham and Sarah, while ‘Heli,’ is the father of both Joseph and Mary. Both Mary and Sarah were informed by an angel that they would become Pregnant and bear the son of Gods promise. Isaac was offered up as a sacrifice by his physical father, Jesus was offered up by his spiritual father, and Isaac was offered up on the very spot where Jesus was crucified.
     
    #166 S-word, Mar 28, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2010
  7. S-word

    S-word Well-Known Member

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    Three months after Mary had told the angel that she had never had sex with a man, she was found to be pregnant with Jesus, who the bible states is the son of Joseph the Levite, who was the son of Heli the father of Mary as many scholars believe.

    Luke shows that Mary had never had sex with a man until she was found pregnant three months later, and Luke 3: 23; reveals the biological father of Jesus to be Joseph the son of Heli from the tribe of Levi, who should not be confused with the Joseph who married the pregnant and unmarried woman ‘Mary,’ and never had sex with her until she had given birth to Jesus, the grandson of Heli and the biological son of Joseph from the tribe of Levi. That other Joseph, whose genealogy is recorded in Matthew, is the son of Jacob from the tribe of Judah.

    And the only reference to the physical birth of Jesus in the gospel of Matthew, apart from the fact that he was born in bethlehem of Judaea, is that he was the fulfilment of the prophecy of the Lord through his servant Isaiah, which prophecy was, that an “Almah,” an unmarried woman would be with child and would bear a son, who would given many appellations’, which has all been fulfilled.The first time that “Virgin’ appears in any translation of the Bible in reference to the mother of Jesus is when it was translated to Latin.

    1st letter of John 4:1-3; “My dear friends, do not believe all who claim to have the spirit, (My words are spirit) but test them to find out if the spirit they have comes from God. For many false prophets have gone out everywhere. This is how you will be able to know if it is Gods spirit/word: anyone who acknowledges that Jesus came as a human being has the spirit who comes from God. But anyone who denies this about Jesus, does not have the spirit from God. The spirit that he has is from the enemy of the anointed one, the Anti-christ etc.”

    2nd letter of John verses 7-10; “Many deceivers have gone out all over the world, people who do not acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being. Such a person is a deceiver and an enemy of Christ.”

    Where do you suppose you would find a teaching that has been spread throughout the entire earth that refuses to acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being? While a human being, Jesus was chosen as the heir to He, who gives his immortal Body to his elect and chosen, when the Lord said to the man Jesus, see Hebrew 5: 5; “Today I have begotten thee.”

    The 5th century Latin Bible ‘The Vulgate,’ in which the word "Virgin" in referrence to the mother of Jesus, was introduced into the bible for the first time, was due mainly to the effort of Jerome who was commissioned to make a revision of the books that had already been translated to Latin by in most cases, persons unknown, and with those books translated by Jerome himself, which revision was completed in 405 A.D. became the official bible of the universal church that had been established by its unorthodox and non-christian champion, ‘King Constantine,’ who had his father Constantius deified and was accorded the same honour himself after his death.

    In transcribing the Hebrew words of the prophet Isaiah, that an “unmarried female would be with child and bear a son,” into Greek, which unlike the Hebrew language, does not have a specific term for ‘virgin,’ the authors of the Septuagint and Matthew were forced to use the Greek word ‘Parthenos,’ which carries a basic meaning of ‘girl,’ and denotes ‘virgin’ only by implication.

    ‘Parthenos,’ was often used in reference to non-virgins who had never been married. Homer uses it in reference to unmarried girls who were no longer virgins, and Homer was the standard textbook for learning Greek all throughout antiquity, so any writer of Greek, including Matthew, who transcribed Isaiah’s words, (An unmarried woman would be with child etc) while being well aware of this words versatile and indefinite meaning; was in no way implying that Mary was a virgin. For the Hebrew has a specific term for ‘virgin,’ “Bethulah” which word is used in every instance in the Old Testament where a woman, who has never had sexual intercourse with a man is referred to, which is obviously not the woman who is mentioned in Isaiah 7: 14.

    Young’s Analytical Concordance to the Bible, gives the meaning of the Hebrew word “Almah,” which is used in Isaiah 7: 14; as, (Concealment: Unmarried woman.) when Mary, the obedient handmaid to her indwelling spirit, who had told the angel three months earlier that she was at that time still a virgin, then went from her home town of Nazareth to Jerusalem to join with many other members of the family of Elizabeth the cousin of Mary, who were of the daughters of Levi, where she must have met for the first time and was spiritually attracted to the biological father of Jesus, who had come from Cyprus. The act of obedience from which the child of Gods promise was conceived in the womb of the “Almah,” unmarried woman, was concealed in the shadow beneath the wings of the Lord of spirits,

    Isaac is a prototype of Jesus and like Jesus was born of Gods promise according to the workings of the Holy Spirit. Both Isaac and Jesus were the sons of parents who were both sired by the one Father. ‘Terah,’ is the father to both Abraham and Sarah, while ‘Heli,’ is the father of both Joseph and Mary. Both Mary and Sarah were informed by an angel that they would become Pregnant and bear the son of Gods promise. Isaac was offered up as a sacrifice by his physical father, while Jesus was offered up by his spiritual father, Who, as Jesus rose from the Baptismal waters and was filled with the spirit of Gods only begotten son, which descended upon him in the form of a dove, Said, "You are my beloved in whom I am well pleased, Today I have become your Father." see the more ancient authorities of Luke 3: 22; and Isaac was offered up on the very spot where Jesus was crucified.
     
    #167 S-word, Mar 28, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2010
  8. footprints

    footprints Well-Known Member

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    LOL, what you see as my loss, is only your loss.:yes:
     
  9. footprints

    footprints Well-Known Member

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    LOL the only time I go off topic is answering garbage like this.

    Now if you do not know the path of enlightenment as left by Jesus. If you cannot describe it, say how and why it works, simply put you will never understand Jesus, for you will never become in this image.

    Did Jesus die for our sins, Yes. It is the reason he came, to leave the path of enlightenment, so some could be saved.

    All sins/wrongs are forgiven, instantly. Forgiveness doesn't mean, abolishment from culpability.
     
  10. S-word

    S-word Well-Known Member

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    Jesus was a human being, born of human parents, and whether or not he sinned in his life on earth, his righteous blood could but pay the price for the sin of Adam that he inherited as all humans must do. (All mankind must die once, then go off into judgment.) But at best, even if he were not under the penalty incurred by Adam in who all have sinned, his righteous blood could pay the ransom for only one man. A human life for a human life.
     
    #170 S-word, Mar 29, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2010
  11. Tiapan

    Tiapan Grumpy Old Man

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    Religion:
    If I find a real one, I'll let you know!
    Do you really believe that Jesus died for our sins?

    Nope

    This was an invention of the myth that followed and developed over the centuries, until it was bigger than Ben Hur.

    Cheers
     
  12. sandandfoam

    sandandfoam Veteran Member

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    Yes I do.
    In the myth.
     
  13. Tiapan

    Tiapan Grumpy Old Man

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    If I find a real one, I'll let you know!
    Yeah but your Irish :)
     
  14. S-word

    S-word Well-Known Member

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    That followed what?

    It's quite obvious that your/you're an Australian.
     
    #174 S-word, Mar 29, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2010
  15. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    All Jesus needed to do was pay the ransom for humanly perfect Adam's fall.
    God's justice is: eye for eye, tooth for tooth, life for life.
    So to balance the scales of justice Jesus needed to be born as a perfectly healthy human of mind and body to be the ransom for all because his faithful death would cancel out what Adam did to us. - 1 John 5:7

    ______________________________________________________________________

    Where does it say the living people placed at Jesus right hand of favor, so to speak, at Matthew 25:31,32; 16:27 will ever need to die?______________

    Doesn't verse 46 conclude that those living, judged as righteous ones, at the time of Jesus 'glory' receive everlasting life while still alive on earth? ________

    According to Proverbs 2:20 who 'remain' alive on earth?____________
     
  16. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Are you talking about the god of 2nd Corinthians 4:4?_______________
     
  17. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Besides a prophet, doesn't Jesus being called Son of Man indicate, that unlike the fallen angels of Noah's day [Jude 6], that Jesus did not have a materialized or put-on body but actually a son of mankind through his human mother Mary? Because of that Paul could apply Psalm 8 to Jesus at Hebrews 2:5-9.

    So being called Son of Man draws attention to Jesus being of the human race by virtue of his fleshly birth, whereas Son of God stresses his divine origin or Jesus Father not being descended from imperfect fallen Adam, but heavenly.
    Dan 7:13.14.
     
  18. S-word

    S-word Well-Known Member

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    All human beings, including the man Jesus are born under the penalty of death that we inherited from Adam, and regardless of how sinless our life is, our death can only pay for the sin that we inherited from Adam. No matter how righteous a man is, he cannot' pay the penalty for the sins of all mankind, even if there was ever a human being, who was not under the penalty of Adams sin, his death could only be used to ransom one other human being.

    Because we were all in Adam, in Adam, from who we came forth, we all sinned. But the spirit that is developing within the body of Mankind and who is born into the fourth dimensional invisible world that co-exists within this visible three dimensional world, (For the kingdom of God is within you) it is to he, who in death, we are all gathered, and when he is born into the spiritual realm with the death of the physical body (Mankind) in which he develops , He who is the compilation of all mankind who has ever lived and in who all are dead, Is the only one who can descend into his dead past and pay the death penalty for the sins of the physical body in which he develops, and the Man Jesus was not He, but was His obedient servant, through who, He, our Lord and saviour, was able to reveal himself to the world. And through the perfect obedience of his servant Jesus even unto the cross, he was able to reveal, the great sacrifice that he makes for us.
     
    #178 S-word, Mar 29, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2010
  19. Bennettresearch

    Bennettresearch Politically Incorrect

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    Your imagination is running wild. OT references to son of man are referring to prophets. Jesus was saying he was a prophet.
     
  20. Bennettresearch

    Bennettresearch Politically Incorrect

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    Hey, way to toe the party line. Marching in lockstep into oblivion.
     
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