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Do you really believe that Jesus died for our sins?

Zardoz

Wonderful Wizard
Premium Member
Just a general remark, not directed at anyone in particular.

People who don't observe the Jewish Sabbath themselves shouldn't pass judgment on Yeshua's view on Shabbat. Not that it's necessarily hypocrisy, but just maybe one has to be a Shabbat observer to really understand what Yeshua is saying.
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Zardoz I'll drop it just because I respect you, but that doesn't mean I believe Jesus was without sin (fault).
 

Zardoz

Wonderful Wizard
Premium Member
Zardoz I'll drop it just because I respect you, but that doesn't mean I believe Jesus was without sin (fault).

Of course Yeshua had faults, he was human and humans have faults. Moshe Rabbinu and King David, to name a few, had faults too.
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
We live in a justified world, this is the world all paths of enlightenment attack. Get rid of justification and the world goes back to base reality once more.

Justification, pure and simple,

Nothing is going to happen soon in the middle east, which has anything to do with God and or Jesus.

Matey, the end will justify the means that are used to ensure global peace in a world, where, according to Isaiah 65: 20; Babies will no longer die in infancy, and all people will live out their full life span. Those who live to the age of a hundred will be considered young. A world in which all the weapons of the earth will be melted down and recycled, and where Justice and peace will reign.

I believe that the great tribulation of which Daniel and the prophets, plus Jesus, all prophesied will occur, is almost upon us. The Great tribulation that is prophesied, will usher in the Day of the Lord, The Sabbath of one thousand years in which the chosen and elect will rule the world with justice for that thousand years, And that all who survive the greatest tribulation that the world has ever experienced, will look back and rejoice and sing praise to the Lord by whose great strength their world of peace was established.

Zechariah 12: 10, They will look upon me and see the one who they pierced, and they shall mourn for him as one mourns for an only child etc.

The Lord will come to fight for his people Israel as he has fought in times past and from within the inner most sanctuary of his tabernacle, which is the body of mankind, he will fight the enemies of Israel; those Nations who surround Jerusalem in their attempt to drive God's chosen people into the sea. The Lord will throw them into a state of total confusion, and the weapons of destruction with which they would destroy Israel, he will cause them to turn upon their own allies and they shall suffer a terrible disease, the soft tissue such as their eyes and tongues will melt in their sockets, and their radiated flesh, cooked to the bone, will slide from their bodies while still standing.

Then all the surviving Nations will go up each year to Jerusalem in the land of Israel, to worship the Lord as King, and woe betide those who refuse to do so, See Zechariah 14.
And if you wish my dear friend, you can tell him that he lost it, and sinned in saving his chosen nation.
 
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footprints

Well-Known Member
Matey, the end will justify the means that are used to ensure global peace in a world, where, according to Isaiah 65: 20; Babies will no longer die in infancy, and all people will live out their full life span. Those who live to the age of a hundred will be considered young. A world in which all the weapons of the earth will be melted down and recycled, and where Justice and peace will reign.

I believe that the great tribulation of which Daniel and the prophets, plus Jesus, all prophesied will occur, is almost upon us. The Great tribulation that is prophesied, will usher in the Day of the Lord, The Sabbath of one thousand years in which the chosen and elect will rule the world with justice for that thousand years, And that all who survive the greaest tribulation that the world has ever experienced, will look back and rejoice and sing praise to the Lord by whose great strength their world of peace was established.

Zechariah 12: 10, They will look upon me and see the one who they pierced, and they shall mourn for him as one mourns for an only child etc.

The Lord will come to fight for his people Israel as he has fought in times past and from within the inner most sanctuary of his tabernacle, which is the body of mankind, he will fight the enemies of Israel; those Nations who surround Jerusalem in their attempt to drive God's chosen people into the sea. The Lord will throw them into a state of total confusion, and the weapons of destruction with which they would destroy Israel, he will cause them to turn upon their own allies and they shall suffer a terrible disease, the soft tissue such as their eyes and tongues will melt in their sockets, and their radiated flesh, cooked to the bone, will slide from their bodies while still standing.

Then all the surviving Nations will go up each year to Jerusalem in the land of Israel, to worship the Lord as King, and woe betide those who refuse to do so, See Zechariah 14.
And if you wish my dear friend, you can tell him that he lost it, and sinned in saving his chosen nation.

People can justify, just about anything. The path of enlightenment as left by Jesus explains it all.

I would have no problem or issue with telling Jesus he lost it and I am confident, if Jesus exists, he would understand it entirely and agree with me.

War begets war, aggression begets aggression, abuse begets abuse. It was a dumb and stupid act to lose it like Jesus lost it at the Temple, a perfect tribute to human intelligence, albeit a slap in the face to Gods Wisdom. There was no turning the other cheek there.
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
People can justify, just about anything. The path of enlightenment as left by Jesus explains it all.

I would have no problem or issue with telling Jesus he lost it and I am confident, if Jesus exists, he would understand it entirely and agree with me.

War begets war, aggression begets aggression, abuse begets abuse. It was a dumb and stupid act to lose it like Jesus lost it at the Temple, a perfect tribute to human intelligence, albeit a slap in the face to Gods Wisdom. There was no turning the other cheek there.

quote=footprints; War begets war, aggression begets aggression, abuse begets abuse.

S-word.... As all those nations who surround Jerusalem will discover to their detriment. And if you choose to continue to believe that Jesus lost it, go for it matey, it will not alter the fact that you are incorrect.
 

joea

Oshoyoi
I believe in Jesus, but not Christianity....Christianity has destroyed the true theory about the real Jesus....I also think Jesus originally came from somewhere in India, but the christian bible doesn't say that.
 

berrychrisc

Devotee of the Immaculata
See that's what I mean, you say Jesus didn't sin, but you forget what the law says about the sabbath, or try to get around it, manipulate it, or change it. Either what the law says about sin is accurate or it is not.

Jesus said that if you do good on the sabbath it is not sin, even though you are breaking the sabbath. The only real law is Love. The rest is footnotes made up by men who feel the need to institutionalize spirituality. The result is instead of people having a relationship with God and loving other people, they spend their time arguing over points of a law that Jesus didn't even obey.
 

logician

Well-Known Member
I believe in Jesus, but not Christianity....Christianity has destroyed the true theory about the real Jesus....I also think Jesus originally came from somewhere in India, but the christian bible doesn't say that.

Actually, the opposite is true, Christianity CREATED a Jesus to fit their beliefs.
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
I think Christianity wanted to make Jesus into something that the Pagans of the ancient world would have been more likely to accept, so they invented parts of his story. In effect, what they were trying to do was create a universal religion for the whole empire. Everyone knows that previously in the empire every nation had retained it's own native religion. The lengths the church went to to stamp out the native religions and legislate it's universal one are a lasting testament to how cruel and detestable humans can be with wrong aim.
 

footprints

Well-Known Member
quote=footprints; War begets war, aggression begets aggression, abuse begets abuse.

S-word.... As all those nations who surround Jerusalem will discover to their detriment. And if you choose to continue to believe that Jesus lost it, go for it matey, it will not alter the fact that you are incorrect.

One of us has to be wrong, might as well be me. As Jesus said when asked if he were King of the Jews, "If you say I am, it must be true."
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
One of us has to be wrong, might as well be me. As Jesus said when asked if he were King of the Jews, "If you say I am, it must be true."

Moses asked God for his name in order that he might be able to tell the Israelites in Egypt, who had sent him. And God said; Exodus 3: 14; "I Am Who I Am." You must tell them: 'The one who is called "I AM" has sent me to you.' Tell the Israelites that I, the Lord, the God of their ancestors, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, have sent you to them.

Acts 3: 13; "The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of your ancestors, has given divine glory to his servant Jesus.

Deuteronomy 18: 18; The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, says to Moses; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will tell him what to say, and he will tell the people everything I command. He will speak in my name etc.

Peter confirms that Jesus was that man. Acts 3: 22; For Moses said; "The Lord your God will send you a prophet, Just as he sent me, and he will be one of your own people, etc."

Did the people of his day believe that he was the Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The God of our ancestors? No, they did not, for on the day of his triumphant entry into Jerusalem, the people escorting him cried out, "Blessed is he, who comes in the name of the Lord." Verifying that they believed Jesus to be the one that God had prophesied that he would choose from among the Israelites, and send to the people to speak in his name.

Act 17: 31; For he (The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.) has fixed a day in which he will judge the whole world with justice by means of a man he has chosen. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that man from death.

Jesus is not the God of our ancestors, he is not the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as is proved conclusively by the Holy Scriptures.

Quote footprints;…One of us has to be wrong, might as well be me. As Jesus said when asked if he were King of the Jews, "If you say I am, it must be true."

Yes, and Jesus who we proclaim to be both our king and high priets in the line of succession to Melchizedek, was correct, and you are correct in stating that it has to be you who is wrong, as you continue to reveal your total ignorance to the Word of God.

By saying in John 8: 28; “When you lift up the Son of Man, You will know “I Am Who I Am,” the man Jesus reveals to the world that he is the one who was chosen from among the Israelites to be sent in the name of the Lord “Who I Am,” and to speak in the name of the Lord, “Who I Am.”
Jesus then goes on to say, “I do nothing on my own authority, but I say only what the Father “Who I Am,” has instructed me to say. And he who sent me (To speak in his name “Who I Am”) is with me; he has not left me alone, because I always do what pleases him.”

And one who is obedient to his parental ancestral spirit cannot sin in that obedience, for that was where sin was introduced into the world, when Adam, in whom the indwelling ancestral spirit was the compilation of all the pre-human animal spirit that was gathered in the evolution of mankind, decided not to be guided by his inner animal instincts, but to judge for himself, that which was good and bad, and for that reason did the lord God almighty command the other angels to drive his only begotten son Adam, See Luke 3: 38: from paradise back to the earth from which the spirits of his formation had been gathered, and there God clothed the brilliant simulacrum that was his heavenly son, with animal skin, hair, muscles and nerves etc, until the war that then raged within him had ceased.

For I believe that Lucifer is the only begotten son of God, that he is Bright morning star, the light bearer, who lights the way for every person who comes into this world, and it was he, whose spirit descended in the form of a dove upon the head of Jesus the obedient servant to his indwelling ancestral spirit with who he was one, who he then led out into the wilderness where he tempted him for 40 days.

Jesus was the one that He had promised to Moses that he would raise up from among the Israelites, who he would send in his name “Who I Am,” to speak in his name, and to say not one word on his own authority, but only that which he was commanded to say by “Who I Am,” our Lord and saviour.

“Who I Am,” is not “Who He Was,” nor “Who He Will Be,” but “Who He Is" at any given point in the time of his ascent back into the eighth eternal heaven of unapproachable light. And Jesus, his chosen earthy servant was his earthly image through who he revealed his perfected nature and the sacrifice that he makes for mankind.

It was he who cried out through the mouth of his servant Jesus, who spoke not one word on his own authority, but only that which he was commanded to say, in John 17: 5; “Father! Give me glory now, the same glory I had with you before this world was made.” This is why the earthly image of Lucifer the bright morning star, Lucifer, the Light Bearer, Lucifer, the only begotten son of God, had to be lifted up on a stake in the same manner that Moses lifted up the image of the serpent in the wilderness, in order that those who are dying from the poison of the old serpent which is coursing through their veins, only have to turn their eyes to his earthly image, which is lifted up, in order to be saved. See John 3: 14.
 
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footprints

Well-Known Member
Moses asked God for his name in order that he might be able to tell the Israelites in Egypt, who had sent him. And God said; Exodus 3: 14; "I Am Who I Am." You must tell them: 'The one who is called "I AM" has sent me to you.' Tell the Israelites that I, the Lord, the God of their ancestors, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, have sent you to them.

Acts 3: 13; "The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of your ancestors, has given divine glory to his servant Jesus.

Deuteronomy 18: 18; The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, says to Moses; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will tell him what to say, and he will tell the people everything I command. He will speak in my name etc.

Peter confirms that Jesus was that man. Acts 3: 22; For Moses said; "The Lord your God will send you a prophet, Just as he sent me, and he will be one of your own people, etc."

Did the people of his day believe that he was the Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The God of our ancestors? No, they did not, for on the day of his triumphant entry into Jerusalem, the people escorting him cried out, "Blessed is he, who comes in the name of the Lord." Verifying that they believed Jesus to be the one that God had prophesied that he would choose from among the Israelites, and send to the people to speak in his name.

Act 17: 31; For he (The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.) has fixed a day in which he will judge the whole world with justice by means of a man he has chosen. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that man from death.

Jesus is not the God of our ancestors, he is not the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as is proved conclusively by the Holy Scriptures.

Quote footprints;…One of us has to be wrong, might as well be me. As Jesus said when asked if he were King of the Jews, "If you say I am, it must be true."

Yes, I’m afraid that it has to be you, as you continue to reveal your total ignorance to the Word of God.

By saying in John 8: 28; “When you lift up the Son of Man, You will know “I Am Who I Am,” the man Jesus reveals to the world that he is the one who was chosen from among the Israelites to be sent in the name of the Lord “Who I Am,” and to speak in the name of the Lord, “Who I Am.”
Jesus then goes on to say, “I do nothing on my own authority, but I say only what the Father “Who I Am,” has instructed me to say. And he who sent me (To speak in his name “Who I Am”) is with me; he has not left me alone, because I always do what pleases him.”

And one who is obedient to his parental ancestral spirit cannot sin in that obedience, for that was where sin was introduced into the world, when Adam, in whom the indwelling ancestral spirit was the compilation of all the pre-human spirit that was gathered in the evolution of mankind, decided not to be guided by his inner animal instincts, but to judge for himself, that which was good and bad, and for that reason did the lord God almighty command the other angels to drive his only begotten son Adam, See Luke 3: 38: from paradise back to the earth from which the spirits of his formation had been gathered, and there God clothed the brilliant simulacrum with animal skin, hair, muscles and nerves etc.

For I believe I believe that Lucifer is the only begotten son of God, that he is Bright morning star, the light bearer, who lights the way for every person who comes into this world, and it was he, whose spirit descended in the form of a dove upon the head of Jesus the obedient servant to his indwelling ancestral spirit with who he was one, who he then led out into the wilderness where he tempted him for 40 days.

Jesus was the one that He had promised to Moses that he would raise up from among the Israelites, who he would send in his name “Who I Am,” to speak in his name: to say not one word on his own authority, but only that which he was commanded to say by “Who I Am,” our Lord and saviour.

“Who I Am,” is not “Who He Was,” nor “Who He Will Be,” but “Who He Is" at any given point in the time of his ascent back into the eighth eternal heaven of unapproachable light. And Jesus, his chosen earthy servant was his earthly image through who he revealed his perfected nature and the sacrifice that he makes for mankind.

It was he who cried out through the mouth of his servant Jesus, who spoke not one word on his own authority, but only that which he was commanded to say, in John 17: 5; “Father! Give me glory now, the same glory I had with you before this world was made.” This is why the earthly image of Lucifer the bright morning star, Lucifer, the Light Bearer, Lucifer, the only begotten son of God, had to be lifted up on a stake in the same manner that Moses lifted up the image of the serpent in the wilderness, in order that those who are dying from the poison of the old serpent which is coursing through their veins, only have to turn their eyes to his earthly image, which is lifted up, in order to be saved.

One of us has to be wrong, might as well be me. As Jesus said when asked if he were King of the Jews, "If you say I am, it must be true."
 

footprints

Well-Known Member
Yes, I know, and I was already editing my post while you were responding with this one.

One of us has to be wrong, might as well be me. As Jesus said when asked if he were King of the Jews, "If you say I am, it must be true."

Then of course, they condemned him. Just as you are condemning me.
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
One of us has to be wrong, might as well be me. As Jesus said when asked if he were King of the Jews, "If you say I am, it must be true."

Then of course, they condemned him. Just as you are condemning me.

Go back and look at ever thread in which you have clashed with me accusing my words as being incorrect because they do not conform with the scholars under which you have done much of your study, and you will find in ever instance that it is you who begins the debate by attempting to condemn my belief as being incorrect.

My first post in this thread is #10 and is in response to Bennettresearch, and your following post # 13, attempts to condemn me as being wrong.

It is not I who condemn you of being totally ignorant to that which is revealed in Scripture, It is the truth with which I am armed and with which I defend myself from attacks by ignorant people such as yourself, which condemn you my friend .
 
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S-word

Well-Known Member
No......I believe there was a man called Jesus, Christianity destroyed the real Jesus.

And you are correct joea.
1st letter of John 4: 1-3; “My dear friends, do not believe all who claim to have the spirit, (My words are spirit) but test them to find out if the spirit they have comes from God. For many false prophets have gone out everywhere. This is how you will be able to know if it is Gods spirit/word: anyone who acknowledges that Jesus came as a human being has the spirit who comes from God. But anyone who denies this about Jesus, does not have the spirit from God. The spirit that he has is from the enemy of the anointed one, the Anti-christ etc.”

2nd letter of John verses 7-10; “Many deceivers have gone out all over the world, people who do not acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being. Such a person is a deceiver and an enemy of Christ.”

It was these deceivers, supported by the non-christian King Constantine, who established the false universal church in 325 AD, that preached a totally different Jesus as to the man the was born of human parents as verified by the scriptures; and it was those deceivers who attempted to change the prophecy in Isaiah 7: 14; which states that an “Almah,” (Unmarried woman, ) would be with child ect, into the greatest of all lies, that a “virgin” conceived and gave birth to a son, who was in fact, According to the teaching of those deceivers, an immortal God, who was supposedly the co-creator of the cosmos, who came down to earth and entered the womb of their so-called Virgin, where his father, with whom he had created the cosmos, created a human like body for him which was not of the seed of Adam, from who every human being is a descendant.
 
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URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
No......I believe there was a man called Jesus, Christianity destroyed the real Jesus.

Or, rather was it: so-called 'Christianity'?

Remember Luke wrote us at Acts [20:29,30] that after the first century ended there would be wolf-like clergy that would not spare the flock. -2 Thess 2:7,10.

Jesus gave the illustration of the Wheat [genuine] and the Weeds [tares/false] Christians would both grow together until the harvest time of separation by Christ at his 'glory' [Matt 25:32]

So true or genuine Christianity does not destroy the real Jesus.
Jesus foretold in the 7th chapter of Matthew that 'many' would come in his name but prove false. That does not make the real Jesus destroyed, but rather proves Jesus words have truly come to pass.
 
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