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Do you really believe in god?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by LogDog, Jun 24, 2007.

  1. Papersock

    Papersock Lucid Dreamer

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    Here you are doing the same thing as Bertrand Russell in the OP, assuming that atheists do not believe in a higher power because of their arrogance.
     
  2. fullyveiled muslimah

    fullyveiled muslimah Evil incarnate!

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    I wasn't necessarily trying to pin it on all atheists. Rather I was trying to say that while I don not believe all atheists are thinking this, I felt that the basic concept is rooted in a type of arrogance. The concept is arrogant not so much the person who adheres to it. Every atheist I would assume has their own personal reasons for disbelief. Maybe disenchantment with religion(s), or maybe they never had such inclinations before.
     
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  3. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    I would think that just the opposite is true. Rather than simply acknowledge a mystery beyond our comprehension, the typical theist transforms the unknown into something pervasively anthropomorphic and anthropopathic - literally creating God in one's own image. It is a most arrogant rape of mystery.
     
  4. LogDog

    LogDog Active Member

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    My non-acceptance has nothing to do with an inferiority complex and everything to do with a lack of evidence.

    If a human cannot achieve it now, maybe he can tomorrow. If we cannot create it now, maybe we'll find a way to create it later. If it overrides our logic now, maybe it won't as we learn more. That's how this atheist sees it.
     
  5. Hacker

    Hacker Well-Known Member

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    :biglaugh: Like I said, I CAN'T WAIT to see this...Us humans?yeaaaaah right!:angel2: )( Please keep in touch with me when and IF we "override" this!LOL:biglaugh:
     
  6. athanasius

    athanasius Well-Known Member

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    Do you really believe in god?

    NO! I believe in God(Capital G)!!!
     
  7. Callmepaul

    Callmepaul Member

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    I only have to look at a leaf or a child to see the handiwork of a God. How can such things come about by purely random acts?
     
  8. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    *sigh* Yes I believe in "god" but it isn't the Abrahamic idea of god.
    I don't find myths comforting, but I do find them instructive. Myths are the way a culture passes down its history, values and culture to the next generation.
    Humans by our vary nature are prone to symbolism, awe and ritual, and these things are bennifical to us. I see no reason to deny myself enjoyment and cultural connectivity to my ancestors because it isn't "logical".

    wa:do
     
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  9. Inky

    Inky Active Member

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    Yeppers. I don't mind what somebody believes as long as they're not hurting anyone.
     
  10. lilithu

    lilithu The Devil's Advocate

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  11. Storm

    Storm ThrUU the Looking Glass

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    It's also unfortunate that some people simply can't accept that other actually intelligent individuals can reasonably come to different conclusions. It's also unfortunate that you fail to recognize that some believers - myself included, btw - scrutinize the claims of religion with even greater intensity than those of any other subject.

    Intelligence is not dependent on conformity, you know.

    >sigh<

    The FSM, IPU, Russel's Teapot, etc. are arguments justifying non-belief. They work just fine in that capacity, but not as arguments promoting disbelief. Why? Because they're inadequate comparisons.

    It's not just that there's no proof on the question of God's existence; there's no strong evidence either way. The examples cited, on the other hand can be logically concluded to be untrue.

    Atheism is just as irrational and emotional as theism (and all other forms of belief). You are coming to the conclusions which suit you best, whether due to personal experience or simple preference, just like the rest of us.
     
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  12. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    very nice, I'd like to hear that song someday. :D

    wa:do
     
  13. Ringer

    Ringer Jar of Clay

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    I want atheism to be true and am made uneasy by the fact that some of the most intelligent and well-informed people I know are religious believers. It isn't just that I don't believe in God and, naturally, I hope that I'm right in my belief. It's that I hope there is no God! I don't want there to be a God; I don't want the universe to be like that. --Thomas Nagel​
     
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  14. slabbey06

    slabbey06 Bond-Servant of Christ

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    I think the believing in God can be a very uncomfortable thing. Because if there is a God, someone who has created us, then we are accountable to Him. That's not a fun thought.
    I do believe in God. Honestly, I think it takes more faith to believe He doesn't exist, that everything in the universe is the result of random chance.
    Here are some quotes I find interesting from a very famous atheist turned Christian. C.S. Lewis:)

    "Atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning. . ." – Mere Christianity

    My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? - Mere Christianity

    "You must picture me alone in that room in Magdalen, night after night, feeling, whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. That which I greatly feared had at last come upon me. In the Trinity Term of 1929 I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all England." – Surprised by Joy

    Any thoughts??
     
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  15. lilithu

    lilithu The Devil's Advocate

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    I am not impressed with the argument that atheism requires more faith than theism, or the quotes that supposedly show proof of God. Sorry.

    But I do wholeheartedly agree with you that those who think that faith is just to provide comfort have no idea what faith really is. Faith is not a "get out of jail free" pass. I agree with you that there is as much responsibility as there is relief. There is as much trembling as there is ecstasy. The paradox of faith is that it is both those things.

    I hear some atheists knock faith because they think we believe just to avoid responsibility. And I hear some atheists knock faith because they think we believe in a god that judges us. And I've heard both contradictory criticisms coming from the same person sometimes. In fact, if one looks at only one of these parts in isolation from the other, it does seem warped. Both must be held together - both the forgiveness and the responsibility. Faith is not just belief in the existence of God; it is a relationship with God.

    But now I'm on a soapbox again. :p
     
  16. slabbey06

    slabbey06 Bond-Servant of Christ

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    I didn't post the quotes to try to prove the existence of God with them. I thought they were interesting because C.S. Lewis was an atheist turned Christian. I like reading how he came to believe there is no God, back to believing there is. I thought others might find it interesting too.:)
    I agree that faith is not just belief in the existence of God. Could you define for me what you believe a relationship with God looks like, and how you can have one? There are obviously many differing views on this and I'd be interested to know what you believe.
     
  17. Papersock

    Papersock Lucid Dreamer

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    Saying that it takes more faith to believe god does not exist than it does to believe he exists implies that faith is a bad thing and you can have too much of it. If you have just a little faith, you can believe god exists, if you have too much faith, you can believe he doesn't.
    It's not really faith when you're going on evidence.

    Plus, most atheists do not think that everything in the universe is a result of random chance.
     
  18. Sola'lor

    Sola'lor LDSUJC

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    There is proof that God exists. Look at everything arounds us. The evidence is in the fact that everything naturally falls into a state of chaos. And example buildings naturally get old and fall apart. The only way abuilding can last is if there is someexternal force acting upon it. You don't see buildings naturally sprouting form the ground. Or the dirt from eroded mountains rolling back if the hill side and build up a mountain. In order for anything to happen there must be an external force acting upon it. In order for a house to be built someone must build it. In order for a world to form something must form it. In order for clouds of cosmic gas to condense somthing must condense it. in order for a universe to be created something external must create it.

    I guess that won't be convincing for most people but once you understand the principle that everything, plants animals rocks, elements, stars, EVERYTHING naturally moves toward a state of Choas, you will have a whole new perspective on how it is possible for everything in the universe to work in such perfection.

    It is impossible for God not to exist, because the universe would just vaporise as everything in it moved into a state of choas.

    There's also the whole faith thing but everyone has heard that discussion a million times so I wanted to try something different.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
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  19. Papersock

    Papersock Lucid Dreamer

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    Actually, some order is created through natural processes. Crystals, fetus development, etc. And mountains are re-created naturally. But this is going into a completely different topic.

    This cannot be proven. From what we can observe, the universe can run just fine without a god controlling it. But it cannot be proven or disproven that god exists.
     
  20. Sola'lor

    Sola'lor LDSUJC

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    Well it cannot be disproven. After all if God is constantly controlling everything, which I believe he is, then what we would percieve as natural or 'the universe [running] without God controlling it' would actually be the universe under God's control.

    Mountains forming...under God's control.
    Planet's forming...under God's control.
    Trees growing...under God's control.

    So if everything in our human experience is under God's control then it is easy to see how it could be viewd as being natural without external control. This is because we have never seen the world or universe when it is not under God's control.
     
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