Do you get smart when you die?

[Wilso]

I'll start by saying that I am an atheist. I'm wondering what all the different believers "believe" about the afterlife. Does a newborn baby, who dies 2 minutes after birth, stay a newborn baby in the afterlife? Does a person with severe mental retardation, suddenly become an Einstein level genius? When the lack of oxygen to their physical brain kills that last brain cell, do they enter a new realm of existence where they have total knowledge?

While we're at it, maybe someone can explain to me how a group of old men, can suddenly "decide", after 2000 years, that unbaptised newborn children that die, no longer go into limbo, but now go to heaven. How exactly does that work? And how did they tell god of their decision? Did all the ones that had been in limbo, move into heaven the next day? Were they going into limbo before Christianity existed? Or was it only after Baptism started, that children that weren't baptised were going into limbo, but now they're not?

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

I'll start by saying that I am an atheist. I'm wondering what all the different believers "believe" about the afterlife. Does a newborn baby, who dies 2 minutes after birth, stay a newborn baby in the afterlife? Does a person with severe mental retardation, suddenly become an Einstein level genius? When the lack of oxygen to their physical brain kills that last brain cell, do they enter a new realm of existence where they have total knowledge?

While we're at it, maybe someone can explain to me how a group of old men, can suddenly "decide", after 2000 years, that unbaptised newborn children that die, no longer go into limbo, but now go to heaven. How exactly does that work? And how did they tell god of their decision? Did all the ones that had been in limbo, move into heaven the next day? Were they going into limbo before Christianity existed? Or was it only after Baptism started, that children that weren't baptised were going into limbo, but now they're not?

IMHO a new born baby who dies two minutes after birth is failed attempt for the emergence of an individual conscious entity, because it is still part of a collective identity. Like I cannot remember a day before I turned the age of 2 years so if I died at the age of 2 days after birth I would be a non-entity as far as this person is concerned. You see I am a proponent of a weak anthropic principle which necessitates the existence of the self in one form or another, so if I died before I was 2 days old I still retain a collective identity in millions of other young developing brains.

Then the information processes that booted my sense of self into existence would be emulated within the confines of another baby's brain, which is randomly selected from the from the pre-existing collective identity in which I was co-conscious with millions of immature brains. As my new brain is randomly selected out of anthropic necessity It is not until that baby ultimately lives beyond 18 months of age I will begin to feel that baby is me. Later theory of mind will kick in at around 4 and I will begin to know I think independently of everyone else.

The thought of what happens after I die does not bother me, what bothers me the most is how I seemed to be in the first place in spite on the exponentially slim odds such as how my existence seemed to be so dependent on that one in 300 million sperm managed to fertilize the one in a million eggs. And the same rule also applies to each preceding generation, grandparents great grandparents, great great grandparents and so on. As though my very existence is like some kind of a paradox. Just simply existing out of anthropic necessity is a pretty neat way around that paradox, because it is not possible to be aware on any state of not existing even if those odds are exponentially greater.

As for how intelligent we become, I think that is up to just random chance because I am of the being you become just needs to be conscious and not necessarily intelligent. In fact I could become someone with a serious intellectual disability or just someone with average intelligence or less likely but possible, a genius from Mensa.

 

[ellenjanuary]

I have to apologize. If I wasn't in a public place, I would be laughing my *** off. Not the OP, just the title.

No. "Smart" is a real-world expression. For everything else, I have a cliche:

Beyond the threshold of eternity is beauty for all.

 

[ellenjanuary]

"Infallible Decree" is an insane concept. It is the height of irony that an institution that "shall not suffer a witch to live" gets its power from witchcraft.

 

[QuestionMark]

Wilso,
In the Bible David was confident that he would someday see his son who died only days after birth. I don't know what that would 'look' like in eternity, whether he will be young or old, Scripture doesn't talk much about it. The Bible also refers to the resurrection being a universal event in which new bodies are formed and they are imperishable.

Jesus loved children, and they loved him, he said that they were like the kingdom of heaven. So perhaps another way of looking at it is that when I die I'll become stupid or foolish enough to enjoy the height, width, length, and depth of the love of God. Right now I'm distracted and confused by earthly things, someday I'll be like a child.

Looking forward,
QM

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I doubt you get smarter when you die, but, on the other hand, I'd say that most people probably don't get any dumber when they die.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'll start by saying that I am an atheist. I'm wondering what all the different believers "believe" about the afterlife. Does a newborn baby, who dies 2 minutes after birth, stay a newborn baby in the afterlife? Does a person with severe mental retardation, suddenly become an Einstein level genius? When the lack of oxygen to their physical brain kills that last brain cell, do they enter a new realm of existence where they have total knowledge?

Interesting. I think you've hit on something.

It seems to me that the idea that we go on to some sort of "perfect" existence assumes that such a thing as "perfection" exist. It's almost as if the Christian (and probably other) notion of the afterlife has built into it the idea of an archetype of the person, similar to one of Plato's "Forms".

While we're at it, maybe someone can explain to me how a group of old men, can suddenly "decide", after 2000 years, that unbaptised newborn children that die, no longer go into limbo, but now go to heaven. How exactly does that work? And how did they tell god of their decision? Did all the ones that had been in limbo, move into heaven the next day? Were they going into limbo before Christianity existed? Or was it only after Baptism started, that children that weren't baptised were going into limbo, but now they're not?

Umm... I think you're misunderstanding the Catholic position on this issue.

 

[Skwim]

Wilso,
In the Bible David was confident that he would someday see his son who died only days after birth. I don't know what that would 'look' like in eternity, whether he will be young or old, Scripture doesn't talk much about it. The Bible also refers to the resurrection being a universal event in which new bodies are formed and they are imperishable.

Jesus loved children, and they loved him, he said that they were like the kingdom of heaven. So perhaps another way of looking at it is that when I die I'll become stupid or foolish enough to enjoy the height, width, length, and depth of the love of God. Right now I'm distracted and confused by earthly things, someday I'll be like a child.

Looking forward,
QM

Isn't the kingdom of heaven the place from which one third of god's angels were thrown out? With rules that strict it may not be all it's cracked up to be. Best be prepared for a move to a warmer climate.

 

[QuestionMark]

Skwim,
Do you think the world would be a better place if the rules were less strict?

Looking forward,
QM

 

[Skwim]

Skwim,
Do you think the world would be a better place if the rules were less strict?

Looking forward,
QM

I don't know. What rules were violated that got the angels kicked out?
And, I wasn't aware Christians feel that all the rules in heaven, whatever they are, necessarily apply on Earth.

 

[QuestionMark]

Skwim,
I was just wondering if you're opposed to rules in principle. If not, then we can agree that the disobedient angels may have violated a rule that demanded expulsion.

Are you interested in a conversation about 'What the devil, did he do wrong?'?

Looking forward,
QM

 

[Skwim]

Skwim,
I was just wondering if you're opposed to rules in principle.

A strange wondering, but no, I am not. Is anyone?

Are you interested in a conversation about 'What the devil, did he do wrong?'?

Looking forward,
QM

"He," you mean Satan? Unless it's described in the Bible, no.

 

[Copernicus]

I'll start by saying that I am an atheist. I'm wondering what all the different believers "believe" about the afterlife. Does a newborn baby, who dies 2 minutes after birth, stay a newborn baby in the afterlife? Does a person with severe mental retardation, suddenly become an Einstein level genius? When the lack of oxygen to their physical brain kills that last brain cell, do they enter a new realm of existence where they have total knowledge?

This is an excellent question. I have asked believers similar things on a number of occasions, and I seldom get coherent replies. The idea that one can survive death is a powerfully attractive one, but it falls apart if you examine it too closely. All of us have false beliefs and false memories. We depend on our limited senses, experiences, and memories to get us through life. So an analogous question would be whether false beliefs and memories make it into the afterlife, or are they somehow magically replaced with correct beliefs? If so, do we remain the same person? What about all the things we have forgotten, either because the brain discards memories or brain damage erases them? Are those memories restored? What happens to the foundational beliefs that make up our characters? Are mood disorders fixed? What happens to one's basic personality when mood imbalances disappear?

There are many more questions that one could ask along these lines. People who believe in an afterlife have an idealized concept of what that means. Somehow, one just wakes up in the afterlife, and everything gets better. As opposed to the most likely scenario--permanent dissolution of consciousness.

While we're at it, maybe someone can explain to me how a group of old men, can suddenly "decide", after 2000 years, that unbaptised newborn children that die, no longer go into limbo, but now go to heaven. How exactly does that work? And how did they tell god of their decision? Did all the ones that had been in limbo, move into heaven the next day? Were they going into limbo before Christianity existed? Or was it only after Baptism started, that children that weren't baptised were going into limbo, but now they're not?

Religion is an "unchanging" system of beliefs that adapts rapidly to new circumstances. If it did not, it would quickly disappear. But the illusion remains that it was always the same religion. It is just that we have a more refined understanding of that belief system.

 

[QuestionMark]

Copernicus,
The reason you won't get a coherent reply is because -- in the case of the Christian faith -- the Bible doesn't say much about it. In fact it says that not much can be said about it. I often find people who are unhappy that the Bible talks about things that can't possibly be known. That's not quite accurate, what can be known and is useful is given, what can't be known and what is not useful is left out.

Looking forward,
QM

 

[no-body]

I would say yes, even if all the afterlife is is ceasing to exist.

 

[QuestionMark]

Skwim,
They were sent away first for arrogance and finally for rebellion.

Looking forward,
QM

 

[Skwim]

Skwim,
They were sent away first for arrogance and finally for rebellion.

Looking forward,
QM

Got any Bible verses for this?

 

[ellenjanuary]

That's not quite accurate, what can be known and is useful is given, what can't be known and what is not useful is left out.

So what is this claptrap about eternal damnation? There is but a single link from the OT to the NT about eternal damnation

their worm does not die,
and the fire is not quenched

Mark 9:48. Significant enough to be mentioned once, by JC himself; to be in its own paragraph - and yet, knowing this significance makes hell impossible.

 

[Copernicus]

Copernicus,
The reason you won't get a coherent reply is because -- in the case of the Christian faith -- the Bible doesn't say much about it. In fact it says that not much can be said about it. I often find people who are unhappy that the Bible talks about things that can't possibly be known. That's not quite accurate, what can be known and is useful is given, what can't be known and what is not useful is left out.

QM, Christians are only loosely guided by the content of the Bible, which can be used to support just about any doctrinal opinion. So I do not see that as the reason I do not get a coherent reply. People of faith are always looking for ways to make sense out of their religion and to rationalize the apparent inconsistencies. In my experience, they can really be quite inventive, both in their rationalizations and their interpretations of scripture. The real reason that replies are incoherent (or, more often, not even offered) is that they are reluctant to think about areas of doctrine that are resistant to rational explanation.

 

[Pegg]

I'll start by saying that I am an atheist. I'm wondering what all the different believers "believe" about the afterlife. Does a newborn baby, who dies 2 minutes after birth, stay a newborn baby in the afterlife? Does a person with severe mental retardation, suddenly become an Einstein level genius? When the lack of oxygen to their physical brain kills that last brain cell, do they enter a new realm of existence where they have total knowledge?

There is no afterlife... if we die, thats it.... its the end of life.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun

Psalm 146:4 "His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground;
In that day his thoughts do perish"

Ecclesiastes 9:10 "All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in She′ol, the place to which you are going"

While we're at it, maybe someone can explain to me how a group of old men, can suddenly "decide", after 2000 years, that unbaptised newborn children that die, no longer go into limbo, but now go to heaven. How exactly does that work? And how did they tell god of their decision?

because they deviated from the Gods word and started to teach their own ideas.

Acts 20:28-30 "...I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among you and will not treat the flock with tenderness, and from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.”

2 Timothy 4:3-4 "For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the healthful teaching, but, in accord with their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves to have their ears tickled; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, whereas they will be turned aside to false stories"

Did all the ones that had been in limbo, move into heaven the next day? Were they going into limbo before Christianity existed? Or was it only after Baptism started, that children that weren't baptised were going into limbo, but now they're not?

they went and stayed in the same place that all of us end up

Ecclesiastes 3:19-20 'For there is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for everything is vanity. 20 All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust