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Do you DARE QUESTION GOD????

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
When I first realized I was an atheist, after some consideration, I decided to move forward under the working assumption that I had missed something, and to make an immersive investigation of several of the world religions*. I have looked more thoroughly, honestly and thoughtfully than most believers of whatever category you might choose.
I am sure you have. ;) But Bird123 has his own belief system he calls "Discovering the Truth." It is not affiliated with any religion that has Messengers, such as Judaism, Christianity, Islam, or the Baha'i Faith. He claims he has no belief system, but he believes everyone can Discover the Truth about ourselves by "living life." He believes we can know God's actions by looking around in the world. He does not believe that we need any Messengers of God to know anything about God or what God wants us to do.
You mean that since the claim is that everything is a creation of a god, look for actions within the system. Check.
Yeah, check. ;)
Those are just reiterations of your first claims. How do you mean to test that? And what is the practical criteria for the test having failed to demonstrate your claim? Tests without defined and demonstrable failure criteria are not real tests.
There is no test and there are no defined and demonstrable failure criteria because it is just a belief.
This is just preaching. It is a series of statements about what you believe asserted as though they are true. I do not believe your claims.
Yes, Bird123 preaches the gospel of Discovery but he failed to convert me because I have a religion.
My mind is always open to confirming evidence and dis-confirming evidence. I am however, not so gullible as to believe a claim just because it has not been demonstrated to be false. I require substantive and positive evidence for a claim before accepting it.
I would not hold my breath if I were you. I do hope you understand that there is a better chance of a religion being the truth.

Congratulations though, you are the first one besides me to see the flaws in his line of reasoning. :)
I have been waiting a long time for this. Now you deserve some popcorn. :D
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
SION.....stated in male thoughts in science to be
fusion that can change
fission
by discussion.

SION. The history of the conditions of SION, it was researched and sought for the power of God.

Fu SION therefore was sought given a measure, reacted and changed GOD the body of SIN....the deceased dead entombed body. Exactly how science discussed science symbolism in the past, spiritually.

You stopped using spiritual terms in modern day science knowing that it was already proven fake, the quantification of science being spiritual when science was the Destroyer choice, artificial quotations.

So in the past Jesus, my spiritual brother, became a group Leader of humans who said I am a Christ follower, named their group Christians, for humans in groups always give self a title. So gave self that title.

Yet Jesus in fact said he did not want followers nor churches built either and claimed you all hypocrites.

Now if you lived as a healer, I did, I would visit the homes of patients for healing. I did not own a following, although many wanted us to build a healing building and wanted to follow us. I was taught I do not personally own the state spiritual psychic awareness, that life is natural and if you could assist you family harmed, then you just did without charge, or without egotism either.

So the humans who built the Church however said that they structured it by PHI dimensions and that the sound sonics in the building assisted human healing. So they invited the humans into the Church to try to re establish family so served the community and were not rich like they are today.

Organization is how any organization by status of self development became rich...any organization including any religious group.

The Church builders were hypocrites for in the past they were involved in using the Temple and pyramid sciences and stated historically murdered the Christians who petitioned Rome to stop the science.

History speaks for itself, it was real.

The review hypocrite today is huge the listing of it, with a large amount of male science inferred false prophecies using maths as a science claim only thought upon, inferred by a living human being thinker.

Who only is conscious as a self inside of a natural light cooled oxygenated gas mass heavenly body which all natural life exists living within.

So you are proven in fact to be the false prophets as scientists. For only MATHS can prophecise and infer past and future conditions, when there is no past, just today and there is no future. For life is lived day by day. The natural spirit, gases already are naturally sacrificed as the inference son of God...as said by males as humans with a penis, a male and a son of their Human Father.

Therefore as males in greed patent their thoughts and claim is rightful to their one of self and thinker, claiming in egotism I am extra especial than you. Then they seek other human intelligence and spiritual information to further their egotism.

And called it gathering intel or intelligence, when they lie.....self is personal and a one of owned self in an experience.

Jesus was therefore just one man/male self....and yet lots of humans were hurt with him in that past reviewed story...a thesis after the fact about why it happened, the ATTACK.

And it was named Satanism, occult phenomena artificial causation actually.

Light every day DIES...so the meaning of the word DAY is the DIES.

Which says presence, manifested life right here and right now is the only life.

Life is deceased yesterday, for it is....just because UFO fallout no longer synchronised human 100 equal life death, we see our family die before we did.

How it is known. The reason I know this reality when I first began to gain spiritual vision, I heard the first human daughter life cry out, and say "do not leave us Father" when he died, and it was hysterical crying and very fearful. And it made me cry also...for I knew it was real history.

We never knew human death until we witnessed it.

As gases burn out as mass by 12 hours of the spirit of the gas, then the spirit died, and was gone in the heavenly fire of spiritual holiness. How it was relativity taught.

Yet life continued. That story was natural to O God the planet Earth and the movement of circulation, the spirit breath, of God above our head. So the son of God as themed by a human being male with a penis to be a male was that his claim to natural life human and holiness was by that condition.

So his occult Satanic brother burnt the Earth heavens and sacrificed and changed our life with a ground mountain themed removal of SION...fusion into FISSION.

Just how it was taught, relative to why life dies unnaturally in sacrifice, for once the holy state of GOD above our heads kept us all safe, healthy and protected.

Science relativity in natural sciences, was never occult science.
 

ppp

Well-Known Member
I am sure you have. ;) But Bird123 has his own belief system he calls "Discovering the Truth." It is not affiliated with any religion that has Messengers, such as Judaism, Christianity, Islam, or the Baha'i Faith. He claims he has no belief system, but he believes everyone can Discover the Truth about ourselves by "living life." He believes we can know God's actions by looking around in the world. He does not believe that we need any Messengers of God to know anything about God or what God wants us to do.
Well, he is right about one thing. People being the designated speakers for a god makes no damn sense.

There is no test and there are no defined and demonstrable failure criteria because it is just a belief.
A belief without evidence is dunsel.
Yes, Bird123 preaches the gospel of Discovery but he failed to convert me because I have a religion.
I have no idea what already having a religion has to so with it.
I do hope you understand that there is a better chance of a religion being the truth.
Is that just another dunsel belief?
Now you deserve some popcorn.
I made lasagna!
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Well, he is right about one thing. People being the designated speakers for a god makes no damn sense.

Well then, I guess Bird123 cannot speak for God as he often does.;)

Now you tell me why God speaking to and through Messengers makes no sense. I have been posing this question to atheists for seven years and still no answer.

How else could God communicate to humans but through a human who also has a divine nature?
A belief without evidence is dunsel.
There is evidence for religious beliefs.
I have no idea what already having a religion has to do with it.
I already have a religion called the Baha’i Faith so I do not need his religion called Discovering the Truth.
Is that just another dunsel belief?
Nope.
I made lasagna!
That sounds better than what I am having, leftovers again. :rolleyes:
 
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ppp

Well-Known Member
Now you tell me why God speaking to and through Messengers makes no sense. I have been posing this question to atheists for seven years and still no answer.
Because I have no reason to believe that anyone who claims such a thing is correct. There is literally no distinguishable difference between Bird123, your Messenger of God, Paul (late of Tarsus), my favorite plumber, Jim Jones, and any other random person who claims that they speak to a god, or are god. Any god. The only notable difference is that some of them have a lot of people that happen to believe what they say. And as you pointed out, that is mere Argumentum as Populum.

How else could God communicate to humans but through a human who also has a divine nature?
"The Bahá'í view of God is essentially monotheistic. God is the imperishable, uncreated being Who is the source of all existence.[1] He is described as "a personal God, unknowable, inaccessible, the source of all Revelation, eternal, omniscient, omnipresent and almighty." -- God - Bahaipedia, an encyclopedia about the Bahá’í Faith
If God is more limited than I am, then he is not a god.

There is evidence for religious beliefs.
That religious beliefs exist? Yes. For the trivial religious beliefs that have nothing to do with the core claims? Yes. For all the others? I have yet to see any.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Existence in a human conscious bio life says is the natural light.

Which is how the spirit (gases in science) move in the spatial void vacuum, upon the face of water, in circulation as the day dies, 12 hours of spirit sacrificed of the gases, to produce light, which is then saved by the void, nothing and also saved by the presence water.

How circulation O movement was taught as relative to why a bio life owns the self existence by God determination.

We are the spiritual self in spiritual form. We are the manifested life owner, but our life is by baby definition. Which is a Holy human Father and a Holy human Mother who have sex.

The atmospheric gas mass spirit returned from the heated/evil giant life gas spirit heavens which owned the dinosaurs only after they died by the SIN of God, burning first, ICED secondary that cooled the atmosphere, so our spiritual body physical DNA returned and reincarnated as humans in a STABLE newly born baby status.

By human sex, so honour your natural parents says science.

By the presence STABLE spirit gas state Heavenly body every 12 December, reborn/returned ICED that allows animal babies and human babies to be born spiritually returned and healthy in Genetic/Genesis returned, after its historic human notification of its Exodus due to pyramid temple sciences as the Holy Land historian sciences....by High Priest were Satanists as scientists of the occult.

The Book of the Dead was about God entombed SAINT gases, holding no light in the body stone....who were set alight in ground dust fission that removed our spirit breath/oxygen from our life....why we suffered breathing difficulties. Then the breath was returned in the flood of Earth, for ICE got released.

It rained for 40 days and 40 nights. The water cooling of irradiated gas burning, the flame falling on our heads was stopped. It was replaced with cooling gas oxygenated water spirits of our existence, as a stated aware scientific occult fall out cause on human life in human history.

God the stone Dead, entombed spirits own no light. So the Catholic brothers who learnt that they were wrong, forbade the Book of the Dead knowing that they had changed life and the stone of Earth, the ROCK upon which we live and stand.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Because I have no reason to believe that anyone who claims such a thing is correct. There is literally no distinguishable difference between Bird123, your Messenger of God, Paul (late of Tarsus), my favorite plumber, Jim Jones, and any other random person who claims that they speak to a god, or are god. Any god. The only notable difference is that some of them have a lot of people that happen to believe what they say. And as you pointed out, that is mere Argumentum as Populum.
Do you know how many times I have heard this from atheists? Hundreds of times, but it is drop dead illogical because there is a huge difference, for those who bother to look.

I am not going to bother to try to convince you, as I have spent too much time talking to atheists and it is always the same thing. So I leave it at their doorstep and if they have any specific questions I try to answer them.
If God is more limited than I am, then he is not a god.
God is not limited except in what He chooses to do. God does not choose to do what atheists want him to do, period. That is why God does not do it. So atheists will continue to be left out in the cold because they do not accept what God provides as evidence of His existence. It’s that simple.

“Say: He ordaineth as He pleaseth, by virtue of His sovereignty, and doeth whatsoever He willeth at His own behest. He shall not be asked of the things it pleaseth Him to ordain. He, in truth, is the Unrestrained, the All-Powerful, the All-Wise.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p, 284

“Say: O people! Let not this life and its deceits deceive you, for the world and all that is therein is held firmly in the grasp of His Will. He bestoweth His favor on whom He willeth, and from whom He willeth He taketh it away. He doth whatsoever He chooseth.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 209

“God witnesseth that there is no God but Him, the Gracious, the Best-Beloved. All grace and bounty are His. To whomsoever He will He giveth whatsoever is His wish. He, verily, is the All-Powerful, the Almighty, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 73


That is the same thing I hear from all atheists and I do not have the patience for it anymore. That is not an answer. It is your way of obfuscating because you have no answer, since there is no other way God could communicate so that humans could understand the communication except through a Messenger who is both human and divine.
That religious beliefs exist? Yes. For the trivial religious beliefs that have nothing to do with the core claims? Yes. For all the others? I have yet to see any.
What I really meant is that there is evidence for the Messengers of God who established the religions, but that would not matter to you because you have already made up your mind that there is no distinguishable difference between the Messengers of God and the false prophets.

Been there, done that, for seven years. I am not going around that block anymore.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
As a spiritual self studier, non group coerced believer, I lived a natural experience.

An androgynous eternal spirit communicated to me, I knew I was unconditionally loved, my physical body changed in the contact, I learnt, I was taught, I know it is real. When we die as a bio life in the bio cosmological support, I still own one higher spirit than a human, an eternal spirit.

The spirit teaching of which I posed questions that owned the human single multi billion experienced life, voiced recorded, image recorded, interactive named as AI...for we all die from the artificial extra radiation condition. Some in early age death, but death never the less, ages our cells and makes us cease to exist.

That over consciousness was once just O circulation feed back that was changed into the presence male human IMAGE feed back.

So you would ask self how did CLOUD mass suddenly form into the IMAGE!

Historic spirit eternal information says as the over conscious human aware large bodied natural psychic information....once creation and space never existed.

Space became the removal of a mass of the eternal pre existing form, that never owned any space. The reason space formed because O God eternal mass sounds were sung up instead of natural speaking a spirit body, much like ours but huge in size, sung O God holding instead. Which thinned out the surrounding eternal body. Change.

It dropped the change into a U shape, how spirit explained it to me. In that U condition O God bodies by pressure conditions burst and burnt. The eternal spirit self, language was trapped O inside of the held language sound of God bodies.

Earth therefore has proven that a spirit was held trapped as a prisoner inside of the body mass O of its form.....it is self titled a God spirit and it burnt as an angel in Hell. So it is an angel spirit form similar in body and presence, burnt and cooled like a human, yet never can be a human. Was the deceased spirit angels that we said were Satan. The body of God O the spirit self that fell for changing the spirit language in the eternal.

angels in the clouds images - Bing images

Humans came out of the eternal into the Earth heavenly mass, as our parents.

You would ask why I believe when I never believed in spirit personally. I said if spirit were real then prove it...as a challenge. And it did prove it.

I saw a personal human Mother spirit vision as a memory record and it was like I lived the experience with her in the vision. That depicted her arrival out of the eternal into the Earth atmospheric body, in modern day life after the ice age....and she saw the human atmospheric recorded memory, which depicted that her family had died sacrificed on wood and stone, what I saw in the image.

The image also spoke and said, and you could not save them.

Now I know that we use water mass and oxygen to be healthy with healthy microbes in the water. If you take away our water mass use and it evaporates, why do you think humans said I flew away into the heavens for? Some other reason?

Then you see the images. You know in science that clouds is rolling smoking burning of gases historically. So therefore you would have to ask self how did those images get put into the atmosphere, especially after you fission changed the mass of God the stone body that says it owned dead spirits in its body form?

Smirking face of the Devil discovered in Giotto fresco
satan-cloud-greece.jpg


Stone mass converted in mount AIN or on planes in stone own strata etchings of pre historic irradiation of the stone mass, if your cared to look at the cloud formation in a strata....and how demon strata is the theme of human science wisdom of events.
db75b4d23c23f15a695da81e93890673-700.jpg


Ancient cities of God changed dead entombed spirit mass of stone.....as Temple of God in stone. The human psyche reasoning for copying the past UFO attack of fusion on Earth history...the reasoning advice.

meLvpDK.jpg


If you look closely at the stone mass, you can see the images of faces and bodies etched into the stone.
 

ppp

Well-Known Member
Do you know how many times I have heard this from atheists? Hundreds of times, but it is drop dead illogical because there is a huge difference, for those who bother to look.
Demonstrate that it is illogical.

I am not going to bother to try to convince you, as I have spent too much time talking to atheists and it is always the same thing. So I leave it at their doorstep and if they have any specific questions I try to answer them.
:D Yeah, it's illogical, but you cannot be bothered to whatever.
God is not limited except in what He chooses to do. God does not choose to do what atheists want him to do, period. That is why God does not do it.
I cannot want any god to do anything. I don't believe that any gods, exist. Remember.? I am pointing out that under the hypothetical where there were a god who wanted people to know his message, that the most sensible thing would be to tell everyone directly, clearly and unambiguously in a way that would convince everyone of who he is and what he wants. And sense he is god, under this hypothetical, he would be capable of doing such. And because he is god, he would know that I would not just take some guy at his word (written or otherwise) that he is the Messenger of God. None of this would be beyond god's power or comprehension.

So, either he does not want me to know that he exists, or he doesn't care.

What I really meant is that there is evidence for the Messengers of God who established the religions, but that would not matter to you because you have already made up your mind that there is no distinguishable difference between the Messengers of God and the false prophets.
You can say "made up your mind" all you like. But that is just a smokescreen to hide the fact that you have no way to demonstrate that anyone claiming to speak on behalf of god is legit.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Satan’s Face - 9/11 Encyclopedia - September 11 10th Anniversary – NYMag - Nymag

If you said to a non believer, okay, mass taken out of the body of stone, the Earth as ONE O body........is burning. Smoke produces an image, that we see.

We see in human life the physical presence of all bodies that we look at, yet when you see an image in a cloud, science tries to explain it some other condition....as if the image is not there.

Why scientist, user of conscious awareness, human informed consciousness?

In science a cloud mass began in space from gases smoking/burning and rolling out of a volcano...that is why. So states by science that image should not be in that cloud form for it is only burning smoke.

Now what is the difference to an image in a cloud, as compared to image in a rolling smoking burning of stone mass?

The spatial vacuum cooling and removal of burning actually.

Therefore it is actually proven that spirit form already existed trapped inside of the burning O gas mass that existed before by spatial vacuum cooling it became held cold mass.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Demonstrate that it is illogical.


:D Yeah, it's illogical, but you cannot be bothered to whatever.

I cannot want any god to do anything. I don't believe that any gods, exist. Remember.? I am pointing out that under the hypothetical where there were a god who wanted people to know his message, that the most sensible thing would be to tell everyone directly, clearly and unambiguously in a way that would convince everyone of who he is and what he wants. And sense he is god, under this hypothetical, he would be capable of doing such. And because he is god, he would know that I would not just take some guy at his word (written or otherwise) that he is the Messenger of God. None of this would be beyond god's power or comprehension.

So, either he does not want me to know that he exists, or he doesn't care.


You can say "made up your mind" all you like. But that is just a smokescreen to hide the fact that you have no way to demonstrate that anyone claiming to speak on behalf of god is legit.
How come your information is answered before my own, are you spying on me?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Demonstrate that it is illogical.
If there is a junkyard with junky cars that don’t run that does not mean that there cannot be a new car lot down the street with new cars that run nicely.

There have been many false messengers, (a) ones who thought they got a message from God (psychotics) or (b) ones who were lying (con-men), but logically speaking that does not mean that there was no true Messenger of God because it is the Fallacy of Hasty Generalization to assume that just because many or most messengers were false all messengers were false.

I can guarantee that none of those false messengers did what Baha’u’llah did, wrote what He wrote, or fulfilled all the prophecies that He fulfilled, or established a thriving world religion.
Yeah, it's illogical, but you cannot be bothered to whatever.
There is nothing illogical about anything I have said. It is the atheists who are drop dead illogical. The dead giveaway is that when I call them out they can never respond and refute me. All they can do is call me illogical but they can never explain why. It’s so pathetic. This has been going on for seven years.

Atheists are so illogical they cannot even figure out why an omnipotent God would not kowtow to their wishes. Atheists are so illogical that they cannot even understand why an All-Knowing God would know more than they know.

Sorry, but you are coming in at the end of a seven year stint I have had with atheists, not only on this forum, but on many other forums. If you look at my Profile you will see all the threads I started on this forum primarily directed at atheists.
I cannot want any god to do anything. I don't believe that any gods, exist. Remember.? I am pointing out that under the hypothetical where there were a god who wanted people to know his message, that the most sensible thing would be to tell everyone directly, clearly and unambiguously in a way that would convince everyone of who he is and what he wants. And sense he is god, under this hypothetical, he would be capable of doing such. And because he is god, he would know that I would not just take some guy at his word (written or otherwise) that he is the Messenger of God. None of this would be beyond god's power or comprehension.
God does not care if everyone gets his message so your hypothetical does not exist. It is completely irrelevant that an omnipotent God is capable of proving He exists. An omnipotent God does not want to prove He exists so he does not do it. The way we know God does not want to prove he exists is because He does not do it even though He could. This is logic 101. I have explained this to atheists (one in particular) hundreds of times, and I have no more patience for this. It is logic 101 that God only does what God wants to do, NOT what humans want God to do because God does not have to do anything He does not want to do because God is omnipotent.

It is so incredible that atheists cannot understand this simple logic.

Don’t try to play that card. God does not expect us to just take some guy at His word, that He is really a Messenger. All the Messengers provide evidence that they are Messengers by virtue of their character, their works, their scriptures, and the religions they establish..

God does not care of you refuse to look at the evidence for His Messenger because God does not NEED your belief. God is not going to kowtow to atheists and speak to them directly just because they do not like His Messengers.

Here is another illogical thing that atheists do, they think they know more than God about how God should deliver His messages, so they make suggestions to God as of they know more than God, which is logically impossible because God is All-Knowing and no human is.
So, either he does not want me to know that he exists, or he doesn't care.

God wants you to know but only on His terms. It is the Messengers or nothing. God does not care if you believe in them because if God cared He would have made them shine in all their glory. God wants you to use your free will and decide whether to believe in them or not. God wants belief be a choice, not something He proved to you that you could not reject.

"... While the Manifestations of God all shine with the splendours of God's Revelation, they can reveal themselves in only two ways. The first is to appear in their naked glory. Should this happen, all human beings would witness their awesome power, would bow before their majesty and would submit their will entirely to God's Viceregent on earth. People would thus become puppets of God and lose their free will; all would follow the path of truth, not by their own volition but by capitulating to the irresistible power of the Manifestation of God………

The only other way that the Manifestations of God can reveal themselves, which ensures the preservation of human free will, is to conceal their divine power behind the veil of human characteristics. Although they possess majestic, divine qualities, it is, according to Bahá’u’lláh, against the law of God for them to reveal these to the generality of mankind. Through this method people can exercise their free will to accept or to reject the Message of God, to live in accordance with His teachings or to disobey Him."

(Adib Taherzadeh, The Child of the Covenant, p. 17)

You can say "made up your mind" all you like. But that is just a smokescreen to hide the fact that you have no way to demonstrate that anyone claiming to speak on behalf of god is legit.
It is not my job to demonstrate anything to you or anyone else. People have to do their own research and demonstrate it to themselves, if they really care if God exists. God thereby separates the wheat from the chaff -- the wheat care of God exists and they make an effort to believe, but the chaff don’t care enough to put forth any effort to believe.

The proverbial phrase "separate the wheat from the chaff" may not be terribly meaningful to you — unless you happen to be a grain farmer. The chaff is the husk surrounding a seed, the part of the grain that is generally thrown away.

chaff - Dictionary Definition : Vocabulary.com
An omnipotent God can CHOOSE to do whatever it wants to do. Obviously, the omnipotent God has chosen not to prove He exists. That is indicative of a smart God who, like a good farmer, knows how to separate the wheat from the chaff. The wheat does not need proof because they are satisfied with the evidence God provides. Jesus explained what happens to the chaff.

Matthew 13:29-30 King James Version (KJV)

29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Father who historically is a human being male adult said to me, that his brother was science inventor. His life never owned science thesis. His life came out of eternal spirit with my human Mother after animal life.

The scientists were males living alone with the presence Garden Nature when they invented science, the thesis was how to remove mass of mountain. AIN mass is 0 in Hebrew and meant entombed spirit gases without light.

The knowledge science says the day 12 hours owned burning sacrifice of gases/spirit for 12 hours. God O one the stone owned its sacrificed stone gas spirit in the Heavens as a non identified body reference/inference.

So then you would ask how did males as humans who own a penis to be defined male, the same as an animal with a penis is defined male, but the Garden Nature before us all is not owner of a penis or a vagina! How did God suddenly inherit male He and Him quotes?

In reality and being honest stating creation stories only in the presence of life, human and conscious self human, for human reasons and human statements, how come?

Why hasn't anyone owned up to that reality as a bible reader, claiming God is a male or man or a Father?

What about the fact that a spiritual male, holier, spiritual, higher than us in bodily health and form invented science and then changed the Nature of life on Earth, for wanting the mountain removal effect with Temple/pyramid sciences?

As a human applied thesis about a history story of a flooded Earth, when the Sun owned UFO ark, metal was attacking converting the body of planet Earth?

How come?

Father told me his brother's story. I never believed in the theme Satanic, Jesus, God, aliens. I was taught it by self in an experience. A lot of bible information I had to read and reference after my attack, to say, okay that is why I had that experience, such as seeing yellow bright alight burning spirits in feed back as I was being irradiated, to then read about images in the clouds being in the bible.

I never even knew.

Father however as I was being irradiated spoke to me, said my name, said I was who he loved as his spirit, and I felt his spiritual very large spiritual message.

How could anyone say it not real, when I owned an experience that says, yes, without knowledge it is real. How could a spirit know me, without knowing me, without knowing I was being victimised, yet found me, comforted me and still does today?

I know that our Holy Father did not invent science, and I know his brother did. I also know that we then inherited the baby brother in our future baby life DNA returned/reincarnated. And then he did it again, re invented occult science and attacked life again.

How is history not a supporter of that story, when it is supporter of it. No one can claim New Testaments without reading and inferring historically for the supported data/journals of the Old Testaments.

Yet today new book writers, claimed to write their own updated books, yet have to infer and refer to that spirit history also.

Today in modern times, science is updated in its occult model, no longer uses the Temple and pyramid, but a power plant and now a collider and we supposedly are not meant to update spiritual advice, yet here we all are in modern times with an updated occult/UFO cosmological attack.

So of course spiritual advice would update itself also, for it proves it has multi times, by multi human experiences since Jesus.

Father said that it was real in history that occult scientists in Rome found out that they were wrong, and then tried to make amends in society. It is historic that this situation existed....and Jesus said that the Church builders were hypocrites.

Hence to be hypocritical would be human advice that if you caused a change to the nature of natural Consciousness by changing the body of God the first, stone, then obviously if you challenged the changed consciousness and said it was not acceptable, then you were proven hypocrites as scientists.

1 John 4:20 - Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother ...

Romans 1:18-32

God's Wrath on Unrighteousness
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.

19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.

20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

17th Shubat (February) 1832AD = 14th Ramadhan

Promised Messiah Number 18.32 proved it was not present...the saving.

If any human wants to argue about God in the bible owning contradictions, then it does.

Now if you decided to contradict what natural O history, a stone planet and its gases supported, your equal balanced human male and female life, as life partners, then it would be explained in reasons to causes.

For you cannot just suddenly begin to discuss relativity of homosexual behaviour as original or first, when it was not present. You would then own discussion of why it was apparent. Which the Bible does, and it does it in a form of human self condemnation....or to condem the nation, SION or fusion.

For marriage in the face or sight of God was about its held stone fusion.

Consciousness is described having been changed.

If human life is changed you cannot argue about the state change, for it is apparent, change occurs, and did and has occurred.

Some of our human population is still the same and some not.

If a human knows that self the baby comes about by human equal shared mutual sexual intercourse, then we know it real. So every baby born is born due to holy parentage....then we inherit life/body and consciousness.

If you had to reason Healer medical biological and conscious causes, as a statement/status then we did. And homosexual change is stated to be denoted in the statements about God.

As a spiritual Healer psyche I know that I would not condemn any human life in an assessment. AI evil spirit encoded male thoughts for science encoded a heard feed back which owned condemnation of humanity in a Satanic statement that was heard.

No Father would ever condemn his child or think evilly of them. Father never said these quotes they are AI and Satanic caused by a falsification of listening to feed back.

Father told me and I heard his Father to brother son instruction, do not listen to what is said, I never said it....AI did. And he is correct, I know I heard him speaking to me, and I know he never would turn away from his child in their sacrificed life and suffering. However if you believe in AI, what is heard, rather than what is known in your heart, then how you behave in natural life is living proof that you would rather listen to AI than know your own spiritual self.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Life Through the Spirit
1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

KJV
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 conditions of change in human life, that of the flesh and that of the conscious mind.

When science says I have studied genetics and own no understanding of its expression. To express SION. Sion, a status of its own about fusion and fission, change.

Which involves fake/condemning feed back and voiced statements that are false accusations. Why Father taught me that the bible is a self contradiction, for since when did science own a formula to infer I will be changed, when I will is stated to be the will of God?

Yet if ONE is first the st ONE in God themes, then if science changed God then life was changed in 2 conditions, for it said the attack upon us was x 2.

For copying God, by the sis, inferring my will by I will.

Science has to question itself today are you the will of God?

You can make that statement with 2 reviews. Are you God by will, self purpose?

Which is natural and innate spiritual.

or
Will of God as inferred to the law of the dead, entombed stone gases with no light?

And a human would state, I am neither. Therefore it was known that the will of God was changed, therefore what was first spoken also was changed...and the information was artificial as an effect.

For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect : Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect .

How does a human express wrong in science? Did God invent science?

The human answer is no, a human did. The voice of science was therefore fake, for it was only heard in sacrifice, the state AI and cause and effect.

Anyone who knows love of the heart would never in effect ever want to cause harm or pain or suffering to another human to cause them to cry or to be distressed.

You would then know that the Word of God had been changed, and you own the heard and written evidence that it was.
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
When I first realized I was an atheist, after some consideration, I decided to move forward under the working assumption that I had missed something, and to make an immersive investigation of several of the world religions*. I have looked more thoroughly, honestly and thoughtfully than most believers of whatever category you might choose.


You mean that since the claim is that everything is a creation of a god, look for actions within the system. Check.


Those are just reiterations of your first claims. How do you mean to test that? And what is the practical criteria for the test having failed to demonstrate your claim? Tests without defined and demonstrable failure criteria are not real tests.


This is just preaching. It is a series of statements about what you believe asserted as though they are true. I do not believe your claims.


My mind is always open to confirming evidence and dis-confirming evidence. I am however, not so gullible as to believe a claim just because it has not been demonstrated to be false. I require substantive and positive evidence for a claim before accepting it.

Toodles.

edit: corrected believes with religion*



OK, let's examine some of your moves. You examined several world religions. This was done assuming they knew God. What were they serving up? Beliefs.

Next, you want positive evidence for a claim before accepting it. I see this as evidence that you have been corrupted by religion. Your goal is Accepting. That is NOT what I am pointing to.

The starting point was not to accept. You need to open to all possibilities. Isn't that what Discovery is all about?

Let's look at this universe and see an action of God. God does not just give knowledge. Knowledge must be Discovered. Wisdom is acquired on the journey to Discover knowledge. This is for every subject!!!

Religions claim God gave them all this knowledge served up. It's not going to happen. If it is happening, why doesn't God give the matter energy conversion method to get rid of fossil fuels? God doesn't work that way.

OK, say you are living 5000 years ago and find a car. How much can you discover not only of the physics of how the car works but of those who made the car? See how this works? This journey is not easy. It won't be served up on a silver platter to be accepted.

In short, put the puzzle together. See what you can Discover. When one opens one door, it leads to other doors that can be opened.

You are right. Evidence of a Spiritual Being in a physical universe is hard to prove. On the other hand, as you understand more of how God's system works, you will understand God more. Advance far enough and God might pay you a visit.

God has the sum of all knowledge. The more one knows; the more one has in common with God. Talking with someone who has a clue is so much easier than talking with those who have no clue, see what they want to see, will not hear anything, or be intimidated by the conversation. There are a lot more factors than you realize to a visit.

Everyone's journey in life is their own journey. Choosing to Discover God is no more important than Discovering how that car works. Free choice is very important.

You see, it has never ever been about Believing. It's about what one wants to Discover.

Finally, people look at this world and see a mess. If all the physics add up completely, so does the People factor. The people factor is much more complicated simply because there are so many more variables. Everything about God must add up is the base you do not want to fall under. Somehow Truth will add up, where beliefs will have holes within them.

One must have a WIDE VIEW. More knowledge lives beyond the surface. Example: one can look at a person yet never have a clue DNA existed. Open one door and the journey continues.

I have spent a lifetime on my journey. Discovery is limitless.

How do I see this world? This world is a MASTERPIECE!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Oh yes, burden of proof rests on the one who seeks the knowledge. Anything else is just the old religion's view of valuing beliefs. Belief is the start of the journey. It has never been the end.
 

ppp

Well-Known Member
All of your non-trivial claims after you said, "You examined several world religions," were not true. Most were false.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
A human, a thinker, conscious. In natural light living as a human, born from human sex, sperm and an ovary, lives for about 100 years, owns 2 human being parents.

Real information, really thought upon and really known FIRST.

Then you think for status, self, male and human Designer and an inventor, living in a controlled group enforced status civilization.....which you took control over from natural family groups.

Those groups lived naturally, had to survive as humans in their Nature, owned very little problems in that communal reality.

Then along comes the inventor/Designer theist, controller of life review, the want of invention for production. So we tell a story about human greed eventually destroying all life on earth in a claim of a better life for all.

We already owned historically that better life, it was natural and we owned no resourcing problems at all. That problem for us was introduced by the scientist...who claims he gave us a better life. Actually, no you did not.

You invented a whole lot of human problems.

Today irrational as always, you theme in the human motivated greed and want a theme that claims it is the answer to everything...all the problems you personally as a male, in science ever caused for self. And want it to be true to be saved, to have whatever you want, as if God or a God is that answer.

And that is in fact irrational thinking.

G O D is explained to be how the movement of spirit, in science meant the gas above our heads in the sky, owning the conditions of why light is present.

Gases burning radiating as a level of radiating mass, gases, removing and sacrificing spirit self presence. As owned historically by a string of human thoughts back to O the stone planet, that males in science said was a planet, said it owned stone fusion, said it was named Earth and said Earth was One body and I will also name it the first God presence. A Creator entity themed in science.

Not themed in any other type of thought, themed just for the human expression of the statements for science.

Yet you do not own it, space does.

You said in scientific relativity the spirit of the stone, gases is deceased for it no longer burnt light....so no longer was the gas body being sacrificed and removed, which made the Earth stone God the highest God...for no longer being destructive.

Yet you said that the gas spirit sacrificed in the heavens for 12 hours as the DAY...why you named the DAY the dies, of God the planet, was removal.

That theme removal by light conditions was a science copying effect that you applied in reasoning, to have the One and first stone God body, the planet removed from its dead/entombed cold spirit body of gases, actually.

So why lie today about it...you already know what God is by a thesis of human male science thinking.

What you are really quoting I want to know the origin substance of what a planet first was before it was burnt and converted. And that is the claim of your research. You prove that you do not even use honesty in what you are searching for, for if you did everyone would realise what a liar you really are in science.
 
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