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Do you believe that you have to be a Christian to be saved?

Do you believe that you have to be a Christian to be saved?


  • Total voters
    22

IsmailaGodHasHeard

Well-Known Member
It says he will take them to the mansion of his Father, but it doesn´t say he demands worship in exchange of it.

Also Jesus said "Those who are not against me are with me". So there, Jesus was very inclusive. :D

So that is why I feel no one needs to go down for not beleiving in him.

You are wrong. Those verses clearly state that Jesus is the only way to be saved.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
You are wrong. Those verses clearly state that Jesus is the only way to be saved.

And Jesus never stated that he won´t let anyone to heaven unless they say his name.

When he forgave those who threw rocks at him, had they asked him his forgiveness? If they did were is the verse where it says so? If they didn´t weren´t they forgiven of their sins by the only one who can let them go to heaven?

If those who did not ask for forgivenes to christ were forgiven by him, who are you to say that it was not his right to forgive them? beause if the son asks the father, the father will give him. How much more when the Son asks the Father, the Father will give to the Son.

This is why they were forgiven. This is why we are ALL saved thanks to love :)
 

Bob Dixon

>implying
Q- for those of you christians who do not believe in hell,
what is it that YOU believe you are 'saved' from (or for)?

Assuming of course, that there are any of you
who don't believe in an afterlife hell.

I believe that, through his teachings, Jesus saved us from a life of sin, desire, and evil. The brilliant part is that his teachings can (well, mostly) be logically thought up as well, so no one really has an excuse not to live a good, ethical, loving life. He gave us knowledge and we must use it to prevent Earth from becoming Hell. Of course, Earth has been Hell for about 4.5 billion years, but we can stop this at any time.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Do you believe that you have to be a Christian to be saved? I am just curious.
Maybe you could explain what you mean by "saved." Saved from what? The permanance of death? A fiery pit? Eternal torment?

Do you make any kind of distinction between justification and sanctification when you refer to "salvation." I ask because to me there is a huge difference and my answer would depend on my understanding what you actually mean by your question.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I believe that, through his teachings, Jesus saved us from a life of sin, desire, and evil. The brilliant part is that his teachings can (well, mostly) be logically thought up as well, so no one really has an excuse not to live a good, ethical, loving life. He gave us knowledge and we must use it to prevent Earth from becoming Hell. Of course, Earth has been Hell for about 4.5 billion years, but we can stop this at any time.

Isn't it so according to Revelation [11v18 B] that it is God, not man, that can and will stop earth ruination ?

According to Jeremiah [17v9;10v23] man can not successfully direct his step.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
Isn't it so according to Revelation [11v18 B] that it is God, not man, that can and will stop earth ruination ?

According to Jeremiah [17v9;10v23] man can not successfully direct his step.

According to Jesus Man IS God, so if man stops it, god stops it.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
This is why they were forgiven. This is why we are ALL saved thanks to love :)

If all are saved then how do you explain the unforgivable sin of Matthew 12v32; Hebrews 6 vs4-6; 10 vs26,27 ?

If all are saved why doesn't Matthew [20v28] say 'all' instead of 'many' ?

If all are saved why does Jesus reject those of Matthew [7v23] ?
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
According to Jesus Man IS God, so if man stops it, god stops it.

Please post chapter and verse where Jesus says Man IS God ?

Man has had thousands of years to bring peace on earth.
What evidence is there that Jeremiah [17v9; 10v23] is wrong
and man can successfully direct his step?

Man will be crying 'Peace and Security' or 'Peace and Safety', but according to 1st Thess 5vs2,3 that is when sudden destruction will come upon this world of badness.
 

gdemoss

servant
It is impossible that all will be saved. That would eliminate free will. I would have to be saved whether I wanted to or not. Ridiculous. It removes the need to become a follower of Jesus at all. Might as well eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we may die.

Keep reading the bible while humbling yourself before God and you just might get saved. (2 p1:19)
 

Bob Dixon

>implying
That would eliminate free will.

It would also make God a sadist because, you know, everyone wants to be saved.

We are all God's children, He'll save us. He's not stupid, you know. He knows us much better than we know ourselves.
 

darkstar

Member
This touches on the CORE of why I didn't become a Christian.

If one can be a wonderful person and still go to hell, only because they didn't worship God in the right way or didn't beg forgiveness every day for the crime of living..... well then I have to say that the ultimate love they speak of associated with God is a load of manure.

I don't believe the bible, mostly because it was written by people to further their own agendas. The words of Jesus are usually not quoted in matters of hate and oppression carried out by his "followers" because it wasn't part of what he preached. But they quote everything else.

My point is this. Jesus was a great teacher. He preached forgiveness, love, and acceptance.
God is supposed to love everyone unconditionally. Then in the same breath, Christians talk about conditions for love and mercy.

We are told that we are born into sin. That we are lowly and worthless but God will forgive us if we throw ourselves at his feet and beg. This paints a picture of a sadistic God that lies to us and makes us beg for love and to escape torture.

This doesn't fit well with the teachings of Jesus. In my opinion it is the words of an ancient church that used fear to control the masses.
I don't believe Jesus would turn anyone away, just as I doubt an all loving God would either.

If Hell is real, I believe it is a place for contemplation and atonement for things you weren't able to make right in life or refused to. I don't think your God would make it an eternal torture pit.
I think everyone gets out.

The doctrine of fear holds people in the church that would otherwise leave, this is probably true. But it drives many more away, and keeps others from joining. It's not a good tactic. And most Christians I know feel the same way.
God is either all loving and we have nothing to fear, or he is sadistic and a hypocrite. In which case I feel he isn't worth worshiping.

I would like to believe he is the former, and that many of his worshipers are still misusing, twisting or selectively interpreting his words to further their own agendas.

So no, I don't think you must be Christian to be 'saved' but I also do think that the modern church and state of things would have Jesus heartbroken. So my opinion is reeeally not popular with many people.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't think Jesus meant that no one would be saved unless he was the only way when he said "No one comes to the Father but through me". I think what he meant was that by listening to the things he taught, one would come to know God.

Knowing and devoting oneself to God is the basis for salvation. After all, Jesus did say the greatest commandment is to love God with all your heart, all your soul and all your strength. Sri Krishna said the same things, almost word for word, 3,000 years before Jesus said it.

Even not knowing God as Jesus taught doesn't close the door to salvation for anyone who lives a good life. Doing that, you know God... you just don't know it.
 

Bob Dixon

>implying
Even not knowing God as Jesus taught doesn't close the door to salvation for anyone who lives a good life. Doing that, you know God... you just don't know it.

Please don't miss the point of this parable. I think you'll understand it, though.

'There was once a father who had two sons. He went to the first one and asked him to work in the vineyard. The son openly refused, but went to work anyway. The father went to the second son and asked him to work in the vineyard. The second son said "yes, I'm going", but ended up not going at all. Now which one of them did the work of their father?'
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Actions speak louder than words, and God knows our words v. our actions. The first son appears to be the worst reprobate, but his father knows the work he did. It's only for his father to judge. The second son is the hypocrite that too many people are.
 

Bob Dixon

>implying
Actions speak louder than words, and God knows our words v. our actions. The first son appears to be the worst reprobate, but his father knows the work he did. It's only for his father to judge. The second son is the hypocrite that too many people are.

Precisely. Your actions, not your words (and beliefs, by extension) are the things which speak for you.

And here's the kicker: the guy who made this parable up was Jesus.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Yes, I grew up with the parables. I was Roman Catholic, then Eastern Orthodox. Seemingly the only way Jesus could get his point across was through parables. Actually they are nice little stories.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
This touches on the CORE of why I didn't become a Christian.
If one can be a wonderful person and still go to hell, only because they didn't worship God in the right way or didn't beg forgiveness every day for the crime of living..... well then I have to say that the ultimate love they speak of associated with God is a load of manure.
I don't believe the bible, mostly because it was written by people to further their own agendas. The words of Jesus are usually not quoted in matters of hate and oppression carried out by his "followers" because it wasn't part of what he preached. But they quote everything else.
My point is this. Jesus was a great teacher. He preached forgiveness, love, and acceptance.
God is supposed to love everyone unconditionally. Then in the same breath, Christians talk about conditions for love and mercy.
We are told that we are born into sin. That we are lowly and worthless but God will forgive us if we throw ourselves at his feet and beg. This paints a picture of a sadistic God that lies to us and makes us beg for love and to escape torture.
This doesn't fit well with the teachings of Jesus. In my opinion it is the words of an ancient church that used fear to control the masses.
I don't believe Jesus would turn anyone away, just as I doubt an all loving God would either.
If Hell is real, I believe it is a place for contemplation and atonement for things you weren't able to make right in life or refused to. I don't think your God would make it an eternal torture pit.
I think everyone gets out.
The doctrine of fear holds people in the church that would otherwise leave, this is probably true. But it drives many more away, and keeps others from joining. It's not a good tactic. And most Christians I know feel the same way.
God is either all loving and we have nothing to fear, or he is sadistic and a hypocrite. In which case I feel he isn't worth worshiping.
I would like to believe he is the former, and that many of his worshipers are still misusing, twisting or selectively interpreting his words to further their own agendas.
So no, I don't think you must be Christian to be 'saved' but I also do think that the modern church and state of things would have Jesus heartbroken. So my opinion is reeeally not popular with many people.

What 'contemplation and atonement' would Jesus need to make while Jesus was in hell ? [Acts 2vs27,31]

The is a big difference between the 'non-biblical hell' that the world teaches or believes in, and the biblical hell [sheol] which is just the common grave of mankind where the unconscious dead sleep the deep sleep of death until resurrected to either heaven, or on earth during Jesus messianic [1000-year] reign over earth. Jesus taught the dead sleep at John 11vs11-14.
[Ecc 9v5; Psalm 6v5; 13v3; 115v17; 146v4; Daniel 12vs2,13]

According to Revelation [20vs13,14] everyone in the Bible's hell gets out.
Emptied-out hell is cast into second death of no further existence.
As far as Jesus turning anyone away, according to Jesus the ones that commit the unforgivable sin of Matthew [12v32] are 'turned away'.
'Turned away' in the sense of being destroyed forever. [Psalm 92v7]
Symbolically thrown into: Gehenna.
Gehenna has been translated into English as hell fire.
Gehenna was simply a garbage pit where things were destroyed, not kept burning forever. So, Gehenna [hellfire] is a fitting symbol for destruction.
That is why Matthew [20v28] could write Jesus ransom covers 'many'.
Many would be most but not: all.
- Hebrews 6vs4-6; 10vs26,27

Those alive on earth at the time of Matthew [25vs31,32],
and symbolically placed at Jesus right hand of favor,
can remain alive on earth and be 'saved' alive
[Rev 7v14] right into the start of Jesus millennial reign over earth.
 

Bob Dixon

>implying
Yes, I grew up with the parables. I was Roman Catholic, then Eastern Orthodox. Seemingly the only way Jesus could get his point across was through parables. Actually they are nice little stories.

That's the only way anyone could ever be able to possibly understand anything he says.

The secrets of life are within those parables.
 

gdemoss

servant
It would also make God a sadist because, you know, everyone wants to be saved.

We are all God's children, He'll save us. He's not stupid, you know. He knows us much better than we know ourselves.

The only ones who will have eternal life are those who know the one true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent. Not know of them but know them. Those who don't take the time to get to know them through the word of God and prayer will end up in the lake of fire with Satan and Hell.
 
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