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Do you believe that you have to be a Christian to be saved?

Do you believe that you have to be a Christian to be saved?


  • Total voters
    22

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Do you believe that you have to be a Christian to be saved? I am just curious.

Saved is the verb. Salvation is the noun.

Those that endure to the end will be saved or rescued. -Matt 24v13.
Saved or rescued from the wickedness on earth. -Proverbs 2vs20-22.

Matthew [20v28] says Jesus gave his life as a ransom for: many.

So, except for those of Matthew 12v32; Hebrews 6 vs4-6; 10vs26,27,
the majority of mankind have the opportunity for salvation.
Salvation meaning either to heaven or right here on earth.
-Rev 7 vs14,9

According to John [3v13] the people that lived before Jesus lived, they did Not ascend to heaven. That would include all those that lived between Genesis and Malachi. None of those peoples were Christians.

In order to have the possibility of going to heaven one must become a Christian. Since those people living before Christ [such as David -Acts 2v34]
died before becoming a Christian then they will have the possibility for salvation at the time of Jesus 1000-year reign over earth.
In other words, they will have at that time an earthly resurrection.
Their salvation will be the opportunity to live forever on earth.
-Daniel 12vs2,13

Those Christians resurrected to heaven [Rev 20v6; 5vs9,10; Matt 25v40] reign with Christ as kings and priests over earthly subjects. [Psalm 72v8]

The reason we see world wide today the 'good news [Matt 24v14] of God's kingdom' being proclaimed on a global scale is because God always brings a warning before action is taken.
For our day, this means that those of us that are alive at the time of Matthew [25vs31,32], and Jesus sees as righteous ones, will be able to continue living right into the start of Jesus millennial reign over earth as part of his earthly subjects.
Those that are considered as Jesus 'brothers' [Matt 25v40] go to heaven.
The 'goat-like' people will Not be saved or receive salvation anywhere because by the words of Jesus mouth they will be destroyed forever.
-Rev 19vs11,15; Isaiah 11v4; Psalm 92v7.
 

Bob Dixon

>implying
I really don't know, but I think "no".

If this was the case, then it would follow that most people would never get saved. Since Jesus came not into the world to condemn it, but to save it, that would mean that Jesus failed in his mission to save humanity. If Jesus failed and Jesus was sent by God, it would mean that God failed, which is illogical.
Not to mention its incompatibility with God's love, grace, mercy, etc. If God loved us all, he wouldn't let any of us go unsaved.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
I believe a person must trust in Jesus Christ alone for forgiveness of their sins to receive salvation and eternal life.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
Nope.

Jesus forgave those who threw stones at him and surely that wasn´t them showing their appreciation or beleiving he was God.

If his forgiveness holds any water I am sure you don´t need to worship Jesus to be saved, because he doesn´t need to be worshipped in order to act like a true God :)
 

IsmailaGodHasHeard

Well-Known Member
Nope.

Jesus forgave those who threw stones at him and surely that wasn´t them showing their appreciation or beleiving he was God.

If his forgiveness holds any water I am sure you don´t need to worship Jesus to be saved, because he doesn´t need to be worshipped in order to act like a true God :)
What about John 14:6, and Acts 4:12?
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
What about John 14:6, and Acts 4:12?

It says he will take them to the mansion of his Father, but it doesn´t say he demands worship in exchange of it.

Also Jesus said "Those who are not against me are with me". So there, Jesus was very inclusive. :D

So that is why I feel no one needs to go down for not beleiving in him.
 

Bob Dixon

>implying
What about John 14:6, and Acts 4:12?

John 14:6 does make a compelling case, true. But take the context. Jesus told his disciples, "you know the way to the place I am going", but Thomas asked him how it was possible for them to know the way if they didn't know where he was going. Jesus' answer was made to assure the disciples that they would go wherever he went and that, through following his teachings, they'd get to heaven.
And let's think about what the words mean for a second. "No one comes to the Father except through me." Does this mean that one must be Christian to be saved? Or does it rather mean that it is Jesus who decides who comes to the Father? I think it is more likely to be the latter. We can have as much faith and belief as we want but, as humans, even that will always be weak and flawed. As humans, we can never worship God enough to do Him justice. All the faith and worship or all the humans, angels, and extraterrestrials, both real and fictional who ever lived would not be able to do God justice, so it is through his mercy that we can attain salvation.
Ultimately, Jesus decides who can come to salvation and who isn't ready for it quite yet.

That quote in Acts wasn't said by Jesus, so it doesn't count. Anything not said by the J-man himself should be taken with utmost scturiny, especially if it was said by Peter or Paul.

Also, remember "Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they are doing". There are, remember, people on Earth who really are ignorant of the truth and can't help that fact. Will God punish them for this? Would the potter send to Hell the pot that he, himself, made crooked?

Of course, there's an easy answer to all this, one that fills up all the holes in the doctrine. It's brilliant, but it's unorthodox and it'll get me labelled as a heretic quicker than you can say "Gehenna".

...

Reincarnation
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
John 14:6 does make a compelling case, true. But take the context. Jesus told his disciples, "you know the way to the place I am going", but Thomas asked him how it was possible for them to know the way if they didn't know where he was going. Jesus' answer was made to assure the disciples that they would go wherever he went and that, through following his teachings, they'd get to heaven.
And let's think about what the words mean for a second. "No one comes to the Father except through me." Does this mean that one must be Christian to be saved? Or does it rather mean that it is Jesus who decides who comes to the Father? I think it is more likely to be the latter. We can have as much faith and belief as we want but, as humans, even that will always be weak and flawed. As humans, we can never worship God enough to do Him justice. All the faith and worship or all the humans, angels, and extraterrestrials, both real and fictional who ever lived would not be able to do God justice, so it is through his mercy that we can attain salvation.
Ultimately, Jesus decides who can come to salvation and who isn't ready for it quite yet.

That quote in Acts wasn't said by Jesus, so it doesn't count. Anything not said by the J-man himself should be taken with utmost scturiny, especially if it was said by Peter or Paul.

Also, remember "Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they are doing". There are, remember, people on Earth who really are ignorant of the truth and can't help that fact. Will God punish them for this? Would the potter send to Hell the pot that he, himself, made crooked?

Of course, there's an easy answer to all this, one that fills up all the holes in the doctrine. It's brilliant, but it's unorthodox and it'll get me labelled as a heretic quicker than you can say "Gehenna".

...

Reincarnation

I agree with a lot of that. Specially:

That quote in Acts wasn't said by Jesus, so it doesn't count. Anything not said by the J-man himself should be taken with utmost scturiny, especially if it was said by Peter or Paul.
 

Bob Dixon

>implying
...to be saved from or for what? exactly....

Just wondering.

In traditional Christianity, you can't achieve unity with God if you're in a state of sin. Dying and never achieving unity with God is referred to as "Hell". Traditionally, Jesus saved us from this.

I agree with a lot of that. Specially:

Well, at least I have one person on my side!
Granted, you're not a Christian in the traditional sense, but you're more Christian than some of these traditionalists ever will be.

"Traditional"
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
Well, at least I have one person on my side!
Granted, you're not a Christian in the traditional sense, but you're more Christian than some of these traditionalists ever will be.

"Traditional"

I do consider myself christian. :) I just don´t generaly use the label because my beliefs of what Jesus actualy taught vary wildly with the christian mainstream.

In any case, there was nothing traditional about what Jesus came to say! :p
 

IsmailaGodHasHeard

Well-Known Member
You certainly have the right to believe what you want, but the Bible says differently according to Christian belief.
 
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Bob Dixon

>implying
I do consider myself christian. :) I just don´t generaly use the label because my beliefs of what Jesus actualy taught vary wildly with the christian mainstream.

In any case, there was nothing traditional about what Jesus came to say! :p

You and I, brother, must form a movement of Pre-Pauline, Christ-Only, Restoration Christianity!
Of course, we'll include no organised stuff; that's a recipe for disaster (as a firm supporter of the Catholic Church [just not all of its actions and beliefs], I'll be the first to tell you this).

You certainly have the right to believe what you want, but the Bible says differently according to Christian belief.

Read those last few words.
"According to Christian belief."

"Belief."

Well, that's just it, innit? It all comes down to belief. Whatever you're looking for in the Bible, you'll find it, and you'll find it good. There are people who don't believe in God and use the teachings of Jesus to back up their opinion, so there you go. Since the guy didn't write anything down, it's up to us to search the texts and find which quotes attributed to him are trustworthy and which aren't. Even if you assume, like me, that a great majority of quotes are authentic, you now have to interpret them, in the context of that time and place. And the simple truth is that if Jesus had preached a fiery place of torment for people who turned away from God, he would've faced opposition from authorities (or, well, from the Pharisees, since they believed in the afterlife- he was opposed by the Sadducees, but they didn't even accept an afterlife in the first place, so they don't count here). Since he receiver no such opposition from the Pharisees, we can assume that his teachings on the afterlife consisted of parables and were fairly in line with Judaic teaching.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
It says he will take them to the mansion of his Father, but it doesn´t say he demands worship in exchange of it.
Also Jesus said "Those who are not against me are with me". So there, Jesus was very inclusive. :D
So that is why I feel no one needs to go down for not beleiving in him.

True at Luke [9v50] Jesus says: he that is not against us is for us.
However, if you continue reading to Luke [11v23]
Jesus says: he that is Not with me is against me......

At Matthew [12v30] Jesus says: He that is Not with me is against me.
and in verse 32 Jesus mentions the unforgivable sin.

Jesus also at Matthew [7vs21-23] mentions ones he will Not acknowledge.

Matthew [20v28] is plain that Jesus ransom covers 'many' Not all.
 

blackout

Violet.
In traditional Christianity, you can't achieve unity with God if you're in a state of sin. Dying and never achieving unity with God is referred to as "Hell". Traditionally, Jesus saved us from this.




"Traditional"

Saved from hell.
Well I used to be a devout Roman Catholic,
then I was an 'out of church' christian for a couple of years.
(though other 'christians' shunned my Self understood christianity,
and told me it wasn't):shrug:

I suppose that's what all mainstream/traditional christians mean then.
Saved (from hell). With the ( ) being implicitly understood,
though not usually stated outright.
 
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blackout

Violet.
Q- for those of you christians who do not believe in hell,
what is it that YOU believe you are 'saved' from (or for)?

Assuming of course, that there are any of you
who don't believe in an afterlife hell.
 
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