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Featured do you believe that the Garden of Eden is a real place?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Elliott5779, Oct 18, 2018.

?
  1. Yes

    11 vote(s)
    35.5%
  2. Maybe

    1 vote(s)
    3.2%
  3. No

    19 vote(s)
    61.3%
  1. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Love is patient. Love is kind.

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  2. dianaiad

    dianaiad Well-Known Member

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    No.

    It would be 'wise' to believe anybody who says s/he is Christian.

    It would be not be wise to believe anybody who says s/he is not.
     
  3. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    I'm sure you do.
    But by the same logic Harry Potter is evidence.
    There are so many errors and contradictions in the Bible, it cannot be trusted to be correct.
     
  4. jhwatts

    jhwatts Member

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    Just curious. Like what? I mean contradiction or error. In particular, as it relates to Eden.
     
  5. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    Shall we start with Genesis?

    GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
    GE 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day.

    GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created.
    GE 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created.

    GE 1:20-21, 26-27 Birds were created before man was created.
    GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before birds were created.

    GE 1:24-27 Animals were created before man was created.
    GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before animals were created.

    GE 1:26-27 Man and woman were created at the same time.
    GE 2:7, 21-22 Man was created first, woman sometime later.

    GE 1:28 God encourages reproduction.
    LE 12:1-8 God requires purification rites following childbirth which, in effect, makes childbirth a sin.

    GE 1:31 God was pleased with his creation.
    GE 6:5-6 God was not pleased with his creation.


    There are many more here,,,,
    Bible Inconsistencies - Bible Contradictions
     
  6. jhwatts

    jhwatts Member

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    These are not contradictions in that it is not to be understood as a single creation but two creations. A creation and a recreation.

    To understand how the two stories mesh, one needs to look a few chapters ahead in Genesis. The writer often interrupts an idea with information from a different event and returns back to it to finish it later. Here is a prime example. Looking at Genesis 10: (31–32)

    31 These are the sons of Shem, after their families, after their tongues, in their lands, after their nations. 32 These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.

    We see in verse 31 there are different tongues in different nations and the discussion of Shem families and his generations also. If we read Genesis 11 in the fashion most read Genesis, the detail about Shem and his families should continue. It doesn't, suddenly the writer changes gears and suddenly starts discussing Ham’s generations and Babel.

    Genesis 11: (1–10)

    1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech. 2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there. 3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter. 4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth. 5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. 6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. 7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. 8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. 9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth. 10 These are the generations of Shem: Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after the flood:

    The author then returns to the Shem discussion latter in Genesis 11:10. So basically here we see the discussion about Shem (the first concept) begins and suddenly the author goes to another concept and then move back to the previous concept.

    Now lets apply the authors reasoning to the first chapters in Genesis. The first concept start in Genesis 1 :1

    The next concept starts in Genesis 1:2 and goes to Genesis 2:3.

    Now we must return to the previous concept starting in Genesis 2:4


    In short,

    Genesis 1 :1 1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

    and now

    Genesis 2:4 4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

    This concept continues until the end of Genesis 4:26. This is the Eden creation, the first creation. The discussion of the heavens and earth that was created then is in Job 38.

    Notice in Genesis 5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

    now notice Job 38 26 To cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is; on the wilderness, wherein there is no man;

    This is the first creation (including the earth and the universe). Here is something interesting. This creation had access to the tree of life. Notice the progeny in chapter 4 has no ages associated with them.

    Now if we return to Genesis 1:2 we return to the second concept. The is a new creation or simply a recreation. The creation has been flooded by the deep and now the new creation is instructed to replace the first.

    Genesis 1 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

    We see this creation does not have access to the tree of life and an emphasis is put on procreation. The progeny of the creation is in Genesis 5. This creation does not have access to the tree of life and so those in Genesis 5 age and needed to concern themselves with time.

    My personal view is that the first creation corresponds to a more primitive creation while the second is a modification to a more modern variant.

    This is the difference between clean and unclean is that clean belong to the first while unclean the second. The clean isn't to be genetically altered by consuming the first, etc.

    There are not contradictions but misinterpretations.
     
  7. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    Good grief, couldn't your god write a book that doesn't need interpreting?
    It should be clear and not ambiguous.

    Anyway, how could there be 2 creations?
     
  8. jhwatts

    jhwatts Member

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    Nope. It's not meant be understood by everybody.
     
  9. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    Is it any wonder that religion is so fractious and loosing adherents.
     
  10. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member
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    That seems contrary to the post of yours I was responding to.

    Why would you not want to believe someone who says they are not Christian? It is much more likely that a person is not a Christian than they are.
     
  11. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member
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    Why?
     
  12. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    It is Not clear to God's enemies. Not clear to those who hate God.
    it is clear to those with an acquiring mind who really want to know when studied by subject or topic arrangement.
    That way we see the internal harmony among the many Bible writers being in agreement with one another.
    A comprehensive concordance clearly puts the Bible is alphabetical order for us.
     
  13. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    To me, it should be No wonder about loosing adherents because as Revelation 17:1,15 reveals to us that 'religious waters ' (meaning many people) will 'dry up spiritually' before the coming ' time of separation ' of Matthew 25:31-33 comes.
     
  14. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find there are Not two creations but two accounts about creation from two different viewpoints.
    The 1st account describes creation of heaven and earth and all in them from Genesis 1:1 to Genesis 2:4.
    The 2nd account concentrates on the creation of the human race and it fall into sin at Genesis 2:5 to Genesis 4:26
     
  15. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Not believing in a myth does not mean that someone "hates God". Nor can one be an enemy to a being that does not exist. Perhaps you might want to rethink your terminology.

    And if you have an "acquiring mind" you would quickly realize that the book of Genesis is not to be read literally at best.
     
  16. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    Firstly, since I don't believe in god, I cannot be her enemy nor can I hate her. It is impossible to hate things that don't exist.
    I do have an enquiring mind.
    If Bible readers are in so much agreement, why are there so many branches/sects/divisions and other break-offs in each religion?
     
  17. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member
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    It presents a cogent and reasonable explanation of creation and Gods interaction with mankind. I personally find the existing theories of creation to be lacking. Further, all the natural explanations for whatever, mostly valid, fail to address the ultimate philosophical questions. Is all there is, including the las all thews that govern all there is meaningless, and why does all that exists, exist ?
     
  18. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member
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    The bedrock fundamentals are the same for virtually all groups. Denominations major in minors.
    A Ford, Audi or Honda are all different, but they all have four wheels, brakes, an engine and transmission. They are cars, automobiles, the differences can´t change this. Some denominations may be closer to the model of the immediate post Apostolic Church, some may be much further away. This is no surprise to the Bible student, were are told right at the inception of the Church that this would occur.
     
  19. ecco

    ecco Veteran Member

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    Did all that occur while you were still experiencing "night terrors"?

    Hallucinations are Hallucinations. They come in a lot of different forms. That doesn't make them real.
     
  20. ecco

    ecco Veteran Member

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    That's what I love about the Bible (and all religious writings). There is so much to pick and choose from that everyone can take from it whatever anyone wants to.

    So much for the True Word of God.
     
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