Do you believe that the flood actually happened

[painted wolf]

there have been many large floods in lands allong the major rivers of the world. Thus the idea of floods entering the mythology of culutures isn't surprizing.
300 cultures.. all living in areas that flood, having flood myths isn't evidence of a global flood. How many thousands of cultures are there in the world? that don't have any such myths? That don't eaven know what a flood is?

wa:do

 

[BUDDY]

No, there is not. There are "SEVERAL" accounts of flood lore and only one reason to assert that they referred to the same event, that being to justify the biblical flood narrative. To claim these as proof is naivete or deceit.

Oh, really? http://home.earthlink.net/~misaak/floods.htm

Here is a very good list of many flood accounts from around the world. A lot of them are very obviously folklore, but many more bear a striking resemblance to the Hebrew account, and I am not just refering to the ones from Asia Minor. Check out the Maori Tribe flood story from New Zealand, as well as many others.

 

[Druidus]

Funny that many of those myths existed before Judaism... Ever heard of Gilgamesh?

Probably, it was copied from earlier myths.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Oh, really?

Yes, really.

Here is a very good list of many flood accounts from around the world. A lot of them are very obviously folklore, but many more bear a striking resemblance to the Hebrew account, and I am not just refering to the ones from Asia Minor. Check out the Maori Tribe flood story from New Zealand, as well as many others.

Your ability to see the Maori flood legend as proof of a Biblical flood speaks volumes.

 

[BUDDY]

Yes, really.


Your ability to see the Maori flood legend as proof of a Biblical flood speaks volumes.

Did I say it was proof? I think that you are reading something that hasn't been written by me. I am simply saying that it is interesting when you compare the many, many global flood stories that are out there. If you are not going to read the research, then please do not try and dispute it. It is a fact. There are many stories. The fact that you cannot explain it away like you normally do speaks volumes as well.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I didn't mean to imply the Biblical flood. I was talking of THE FLOOD as in the BIG ONE.

Thanks for the clarification. At the same time, to paraphrase Tip O'Neill's dad, all folklore is local. The "BIG ONE" for those along the Tigres and Euphrates is unlikely to be the BIG ONE for those along the Nile, the Amazon, The Ganges, the Yangtze, or, for our good friend with the defective ignore list, the Maori along the Tohinga.

 

[Scuba Pete]

As does your inability to see an obvious connection Deut.

An incredibly large flood happened... one that was global in nature. You call it a biocide, I call it re-booting the earth. You place a premium on physical existence, while I place a premium on the spiritual existence. Those who died physically were already dead spiritually.

Do I fully understand the flood, it's full extent or all of it's implications? No more than you, my friend.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

There are many stories. The fact that you cannot explain it away like you normally do speaks volumes as well.

<yawn>Yes. There are many floods. There are many stories. There are many legends based loosely on many stories. Thanks for sharing.</yawn>

 

[painted wolf]

is there any evidence that these cultures simply didn't take a local river flood (we are talking about some of the bigest rivers and some of the most flood prone areas of the world here) and over hundreds or thousands of years make it into a 'global' flood.

Is there any evidence of a global flood other than loosely convienient myths?

wa:do

 

[BUDDY]

Funny that many of those myths existed before Judaism... Ever heard of Gilgamesh?

Probably, it was copied from earlier myths.

Even the remote areas represented in the list that I posted? Even when such remote places (in reference to the origin of Gilgamesh) bear such resemblance to the Hebrew account?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

An incredibly large flood happened...

Many, in fact.

... one that was global in nature.

That is every bit an example of unscientific nonsense as is creationism and its attack on evolution.

You call it a biocide, , I call it re-booting the earth.

No, your myth claims it as biocide. You simply cheer.

You place a premium on physical existence, while I place a premium on the spiritual existence. Those who died physically were already dead spiritually.

Yep. They got what they deserved - every last child and animal. Thanks for the insight.

Do I fully understand the flood, it's full extent or all of it's implications? No more than you, my friend.

Apologetic rubish. Map your Biblical flood to a flood event in Egypt, then get back to me.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

An incredibly large flood happened... one that was global in nature.

Right. Yet there are fresh water areas on Earth, there is no evidence of such a catastrophic event in the fossil record, there is no support for all current life coming from only two ancestors of the same species in evoutionary genetics, and there is no geological evidence that the entire surface of the Earth was ever covered in liquid water.

Is it any wonder that only those who believe in a divinely-inspired Old Testament hold fast to the legitimacy of this story?

 

[Scuba Pete]

So when presented with something that you can not counter, you simply lash out with "nonsense and rub(b)ish" and the like!

I don't bow to your altar of science Deut. Nothing could be more foolish to me. The laws of science can be broken by the one who created them.

And I won't be baited into lashing out at you verbally as you do to me and others. It's not my fault that you cannot understand what I believe: you have been blinded by your devotion to science.

Get back to me, when you change your debate style.

 

[Green Gaia]

Those who died physically were already dead spiritually.

Even the children?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It's not my fault that you cannot understand what I believe: ...

Of course I do:

God did it (but I don't have a clue as to when),
hid the evidence (but I could care less as to what), and
the victims of his biocide deserved what they got (and I could care less as to why)"​

 

[Scuba Pete]

Right. Yet there are fresh water areas on Earth,

A supernatural cleaning that followed a supernatural flood does not seem that far out.

there is no evidence of such a catastrophic event in the fossil record,

What would you be looking for? An event that lasted less than a year might not make a blip on the fossil record scene.

there is no support for all current life coming from only two ancestors of the same species in evoutionary genetics

Yet, evolution teaches us that all life has the same origin, does it not?

there is no geological evidence that the entire surface of the Earth was ever covered in liquid water.

Hmnnn, I am sure you are not meaning what you are saying. What about shell fossils in the Rocky Mountains? Marine fossils are found world wide.

But the problem is trying to use the natural to explain away the supernatural. Saying it can't happen because science says it can't happen shows an astoundingly myopic view of God. You are asking the theist to renounce that God can do ANYTHING... even break the physical laws that he created. I simply don't buy into that pseudo-logic.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Maize,

if they weren't dead spiritually, then they are with God now.

Death happens to EVERYONE. That's the thing about life: very few get out of here alive!

We tend to view an "early death" as something tragic or even evil.

In our focus on the physical (the here and now) we have lost sight of the spiritual (etrenity).

 

[Scuba Pete]

Not quite Deut... but you can keep trying.

PS, thanks for leaving out some of the flames that you pepper your writings with.

 

[painted wolf]

you talking about an event that wiped out billions of living things and covered the Earth with a flood of epic perportions. Leaving disctruction and silt everywhere... but we cant find it?

wa:do

 

[BUDDY]

The bottom line for me is, as a Christian, to believe that there was a rain that lasted for 40 days, followed by flooding that lasted close to a year, is not a far stretch when you believe in a God who can create all things in seven days. I do believe that there is physical evidence that points to this flood and research that has been done to support it. It is clear that it is not going to be enough for you to believe the same as I do, but I certainly wouldn't call anyone a name to imply ignorance because they don't believe the same as I do. Have a nice day!!