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Do you believe in the death penalty?

Discussion in 'Political Debates' started by PopeADope, Feb 8, 2017.

?
  1. Yes

    17 vote(s)
    38.6%
  2. No

    27 vote(s)
    61.4%
  1. whereismynotecard

    whereismynotecard Treasure Hunter

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    I don't like it unless it's in self-defense or in defense of someone else - that is, that the person at fault is presently attacking someone and killing them right now is the only way to save the person being attacked. (I don't like it in that case either - but I can see how it would be necessary.) To kill someone long after they have ceased being a threat seems so dirty. I don't know how anyone who participates in such a retaliation could sleep at night afterwards.

    As long as they are in prison (and hopefully monitored in such a way where they are not a threat to guards or other prisoners,) there's no reason to kill them - and killing them solves nothing. Their crime was still committed. It can't be taken back. Killing them only makes the person who carried out their execution into a murderer too, and potentially makes more people lose a family member.

    Also, death is the easy way out. I'd rather be dead than live in prison for the rest of my life... so to some, prison is a harsher sentence. That's why we all feel so pissed off and cheated when violent, terrible criminals kill themselves before being arrested or in jail/prison before serving their time.
     
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  2. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    What do you think about the prison that is supposed to contain these people, and yet can't control them? If I set up a business to manufacture baby cribs, but can't control whether they come of the assembly line safe or not, maybe I shouldn't be in that business.
     
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  3. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Of course they are, but often lifers are in special holding cells, apart from your 'ordinary prisoners'. I don't know how other countries work, but here we have 3 or 4 levels, including temporary detention, minimum security, and maximum security.

    Still, you make a good point. I'll have to d some research on how many in-jail crimes lifers have done.
     
  4. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    The Statistical Sleight of Hand That Makes the U.S. Crime Rate Seem Lower Than It Really Is
     
  5. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    I'm Canadian. I think that prisons should focus on rehabilitation, not as places for revenge. Our 2 prison systems do vary, and I'm not sure by how much. I've always figured the large percentage of drug-related offenders in America skewed things. Certainly the US has higher incarceration rates than many places as well. List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia
     
  6. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Probably be easier if we created a society that work to help each other. Maybe that indoctrination of helping others :eek: and indoctrinating people with love :oops: and indoctrinating people with life lessons that don't stamp over others :rolleyes: may get people from out of prisons and more ways to help individuals as a part of a whole.

    I mean, if you killed 5,000 people, loan sharking, and you felt justified and sane in your actions, give yourself a reason why you should get the death penalty.

    Not what others say (god included ;) ). You.
     
  7. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    Yes I do for certain crimes.

    And I don't consider it murdering them, - or vengeance.

    They know the penalties, - thus if they choose to do the crimes, - they are choosing suicide by lethal injection, etc.

    *
     
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  8. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    I voted no, but with a batch of caveats.
    A) I'm talking about first world countries, USA really. I know things are very different in other places. Indonesia, Mexico, South Africa , etc., face very different challenges.
    B) There are people who are still a big threat even in prison. Drug lords, gangleaders, terrorist organizers, not many but some.
    C) There are people who would rather die than serve out their sentence. Fine.
    And I'm fine with life sentences for people who can't be trusted to be safe on the streets. Real life sentences without the possibility of parole.

    What I am opposed to is vengeance killing or cost saving measures.

    Tom
     
  9. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    We obviously need better prisons, and digital monitoring of prisoners. Prisons need to join us in the age of technology.

    *
     
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  10. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    I have never considered incarceration or the death penalty revenge.
    Incarceration is the law and is for an adult "time out".

    The death penalty is for the people who would not benefit by a time out.

    I think the death penalty is for people who are believed to be incorrigible.
     
  11. Labourwave

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    Death penalty in the sense that sometimes people need to die to avoid an outcome.

    IE: Nazi's attacking minorities in the street? Shoot away.

    However I do not believe in the death penalty as a legal sentence.
     
  12. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    I think you should tell me how it is possible to kill anyone loan sharking.
     
  13. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    If you killed 5,000, loan sharking, and whatever, and you were completely sane, what reason would "you" give to convict yourself of the death penalty?

    -

    Loan sharking, murder, and I think organized crimes in combination are the big ones tog et death penalty in many states. Some states you dont have to murder.

    But you understood the question and point?
     
  14. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    I think you are saying that a conviction of loan sharking can get you the death penalty. I don't seem to believe that.

    What would you say about Banking?
     
  15. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    Are you @Carlita saying that killing someone just because he can't pay gets the death penalty? I agree the death penalty for that is a reasonable penalty.
     
  16. Goddess_Ashtara

    Goddess_Ashtara NIN MOJAVE AK IMEN

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    I am absolutely in favor of the death penalty, but not for the reasons I see mentioned above.

    I believe in the death penalty because I know it makes a powerful statement, because nothing says "do not oppose or shame our Empire" more than the execution of those who shame or oppose it.

    Though, I think America's primary method of execution should be more dramatic and ritualistic, so as to better utilize the opportunity to make a statement and leave an impression.
     
  17. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Here is an example of death penalty without committing a crime @savagewind

    Death Penalty Information Center


    The death penalty in the United States is used almost exclusively for the crime of murder. Although state and federal statutes contain various capital crimes other than those involving the death of the victim, only two people were on death row for a non-murder offense (Patrick Kennedy and Richard Davis in Louisiana) when the U.S. Supreme Court addressed this issue in 2008. No one has been executed for such a crime since the death penalty was re-instated in 1976. In 1977, the U.S. Supreme Court in Coker v. Georgia, 433 U.S. 584, held that the death penalty for the rape of an adult was "grossly disproportionate" and an "excessive punishment," and hence was unconstitutional under the Eighth Amendment. The Court looked at the relatively few states that allowed the death penalty for rape and the few death sentences that had been handed down.

    Some states passed new laws allowing the death penalty for the rape of a child. In 2007, the Louisiana Supreme Court upheld the death sentence for Patrick Kennedy for the rape of his step-daughter, LOUISIANA v. KENNEDY (No. 05-KA-1981, May 22, 2007). Kennedy was convicted in 2003. However, Louisiana's law was struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court on June 25, 2008. See Kennedy v. Louisiana for more information. This decision also held that the death penalty would be disproportionate for any offense against an individual that did not involve death of the victim.
    From the sum of it, some states are still thinking about death penalty for rape and then go on to think "okay, maybe rape of a woman isn't grounds for death but maybe if that person raped a child, yeah, that's cool! We can kill her."

    The "death penalty" mentality reminds me we haven't gotten pass the inquisition, nazi, WWars or any of those things.

    The point is if I killed John and John came back, it would be logical not ethical but logical that John and John only would have the right to kill me and no one else.

    Once you place the family, friends, strangers, government into the situation then it gets confusion....

    but the family and friends had no choice in the matter. We-we- create the laws-our (American) government does. We do have a choice.

    So it is considered "justified killing" and doing exactly opposite of what we are trying to promote. That's like when I was a kid and they had chewing gum cigarettes and they figure if kids chew on the cigs they won't get the real thing. Probably the same reason for porn, vapor products, businesses designed to "get you from not smoking" by letting you smoke in their sitting area.

    It's not just physical death. This mentality runs deep. It's like the short story, The Lottery. Those who read it understand.
     
  18. siti

    siti Well-Known Member

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    No. By coincidence, I was watching the movie Shepherds and Butchers last night. I want to read the book because the author reckons the movie doesn't do justice to the point he was making:

    "The theme is that killing is wrong, killing human beings is wrong. That's my theme and, alongside it, that making people kill on our behalf is wrong because the killing of a human being changes the killer." ~ Chris Marnewick, author of Shepherds and Butchers

    I actually thought it came over quite well - the message - the movie was quite poor in all honesty, only the gravity of the theme saved it for me. It certainly showed how the process of execution traumatized the warders who looked after the prisoners on death row and then lead them to and assisted in their executions - and shone a light on another side of the capital punishment question.

    Maybe there should be a second poll "Would you be prepared to carry out the executions? Yes or No?"
     
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  19. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    I looked it up and explained it in my reply to you which probably any minute now.
     
  20. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Do you get the point of my question?

    If you killed 5,000 people and you were mentally and physically healthy-like you're reading this now-, what reason would you give yourself to convict you of the death penalty?
     
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